Consumption

[idbefishing]

"And beside where on this earth can you find farm raised fish that are not exposed to air pollution emissions? Where can one go in IN that does not have a power plant buring coal nearby?
Not anywhere in Southern IN that is for sure."

Yeah but at least fish farm pond not connects to rivers and creeks that take all the water runoff and pollution from the surrounding land and they don't eat other bait fish which already being contaminated. Whatever pollution fall directly onto the pond is probably so minutes that it have no harm.

[Moose1am]

Well some lakes are surrounded by farmland that has had human waste residue applied to the land. Some farmer once got some sludge from some city waste treatment plants and they applied that to the land surrounding this huge private lake.

I was working for an Environmental Analytical Laboratory and we were hired to take lake bottom sediment samples and to test them for nitrates and other elements. Not sure what all the parameters they wanted our lab to test for. Heavy metals surely was on the list.

We went out to this lake and dove down to the lake bottom and took some core samples from the muck. Those samples were taken back to the lab and stored and then analyzed.

The guy that hired our lab was pretty high up in the State IDEM Solid Waste or Hazardous Waste Dept. Never did get to see the study results

But I have heard that some farm raised catfish had PCB contamination. Seems that the fish food that they used to feed teh catfish had been contaminated with PCB's.

Fly ash know's no political boundaries. It goes where ever the wind takes it. Fly ash coming out of a 1000ft tall smoke stack at a high velocity and at very high temperature can rise up more than a few thousand feet above the top of the smoke stack and be carried long distances away. But if there is little wind and it's a hot summer day with a temperature inversion in progress those gases won't travel very far before even the ligth weight particle settle out of the air. This is dry depositon. These smoke particles can carry trace amounts of heavy metals such as mercury, lead, cadmium, and arsenic. Over 40 years these trace metals can build up in the soil, lakes and or river surrounding the power plant's smoke stacks.

And then you have the bio accumulation up the food chain effect that can concentrate those heavy metals and pesticide up the food chain.

While the small pond or lake may not be connected to the river system and thus not subjected to the pollutants that are in the river water the fish in a small pond can still contain heavy metals in varying amounts.

Regards,

Moose1am

[idbefishing]

So what is your point Moose? or are you just confirmed what I tried to say. It's safer to consumes farm raised fish.!!!!!!

[Moose1am]

My point is this: It depends on a lot of factores. What feed was used and if that feed was contaminated or not. Where the farm pond is located. Is that pond downwind of a large coal fired power plant or not.

You may be correct that in General the farm raised fish may be safer to eat... meaning that they have LESS pollutants in their flesh.

In fact it's hard to find any thing these days that does not have some contamination in it... including humans. Every one of us has traces of a lot of chemicals in our bodies.

I guess my point is that it's not so clear and it's more complicated that most people think it is.

Here is what I would love to see happen. I would love to see the toxins prevented from getting into the environment in the first place. If not completely stopped then eliminated to a high degree.

I am tired of having to limit my fishing due to the fish being contaminated with mercury and PCB and any other toxin. I wish that we would not have to worry about these toxin in our food. But we can't get that done right now. So I guess we are all forced to reduce our consumption of wild fish that come from polluted waters or switch to a vegetable diet.

I guess my point is that we have too many people getting cancer and dying on us at an early age and I wish that could be prevented.

Regards,

Moose1am

[WMAMOS]

I'd recommend using Google as a source of information.....not MOOSE.

http://www.wistrout.com/fishsafe.htm

[idbefishing]

quote:
WMAMOS (132 posts)
Sep-06-05, 12:45 PM (EST)
16. "RE: Consumption"
I'd recommend using Google as a source of information.....not MOOSE.
http://www.wistrout.com/fishsafe.htm


Ha ha ha ha....good one Amos.

[Moose1am]

Santerre warns, however, that while data supports the safety and benefits of aquaculture products, consumers should still use caution when eating fish they catch.




Regards,

Moose1am

[Guest Author]

Moose, I am in complete agreement with you in two areas. First, your understanding of the technical problem seems sound, given my background as an engineer at a foundry. Lots of "bad boys" to try to control there! Second, and most important to me, we should not have to give up and say: "oh well, that's just the way it is". It is what it is because big business and industry are allowed to cut corners and be irresponsible to to the environment and all its citizens be they human or wildlife. It used to be said that "what is good for General Motors is good for America". That should have said: " . . . is good for their bottom line". That was BS then and it is BS now. Making more profit because of unenforced pollution standards rarely if ever benefits the workers in terms of better wages. It just makes the opportunity for more huge executive bonuses, and for a more cancer-ridden environment. EPA was making inroads on this and similar problems until about 6 years ago. Check to see how many serious fines have been levied against the bad polluters in that time period. Investigate how many standards have been "relaxed". The philosophy of this administration is to allow whatever it takes for business to make higher profits, never mind the terrible toll on citizens in terms of lost, runaway jobs and an environment that is becoming tragically toxic. I have pancreatic cancer (incurable but fortunately slow-growing). Don't know for sure where it came from, but of my 32 years with Chrysler the last 7 were at their foundry where carcinegens and toxic emissions were the price for making the money. No, we should not give up. Fishermen should band together and form Clean Lake or Clean River action groups and start with the State IDEM and work up. Also, we perhaps might consider all of this when we make our big decisions in 2008. Good luck - Tracker Jon

[Moose1am]

I am sorry to hear this sad news. I hope that something can be done to reverse your condiditon.

You are right about the need for fishermen to band together to try to clean up the water's. We should all be in the same boat on this subject.



Regards,

Moose1am

[Moose1am]

Danin:
I saw on the TV news a few weeks ago that some guys in California have a new ANALYZER for Mercury in Fish that can analyze the fish very quickly. Like in a matter of miutes. The method that I have seen for testing water for mercury was very cumberson and took more than a day to complete. Test results took about 2 days to get out from the time of receiving the sample and Chain of custody forms to emailing the test result report to the client.

With this new system the testing should be much faster and easier to do.

Unfortunately the news on TV didn't give the name of the company that has invented this new analyzer or any other useful information. I found that rather strange that they would not give that information out. Maybe it's a trade secrete until they apply for the patents. Who really knows. But I sure hope that this becomes more plentify and gets into peoples hands so that we can test the fish we eat better.

I limit my consumption of crappie due to the worry about them containing too much mercury. Remember that mercury can accumulate inside the body and it's hard to get rid of this heavey metal. I did read that over time the body can excrete certain forms of mercury.

I know from first hand experience that the local and state officals don't easily put out warnings unless they really feel it's necessary. The last thing they wish to do is cause people to panic. I doubt if that would happen as most people basically just ignore the warnings about mercury. Not all people ignore it but a lot of people tend to schrug the warnings.

People would be wise to pay attention to them IMHO.



PS> Smaller fish have consumed much less food than larger fish. Since mercury can bioaccumulate in the fish the larger fish will most likey have the most mercury in them. But if you eat a lot of small fish you MAY get a dose that is equivalent to eating just one bigger fish.

Evidently the algae and small critters that live in the lake Zooplanton and Phytoplankton take up the mercury by feeding on bacteria or other organizms and they in turn are eaten by the minnows which in turn are eaten by the larger game fish. So the higher up the food chain a fish is the more likely it is to have mercury in it's flesh. Also if the lake is in close proximity to a coal fired power plant's smoke stacks that are not controlled then the lake is going to have more mercury in it's wateshed. Especially if that lake is downwind from the smoke stack. They have computer models that can be run to figure out the levels of mercury in a given area. But they need to have lots of data input for those models to work. Things like the wind row data and the amount of coal burned and the stack height and velocity of the stack gases as they exit the mouth of the stack. Also the air temp and the outside air stabilty effect these computer models. Garbage in will equal garbage out. To calibate the computer modeling they install monitors thoughout an are of interest and actually measure the amount of pollutant that is capture every 6 days for a year or more. PDS monitoring is required when a new power plant is proposed to be build in any Attainment area.

Regards,

Moose1am

[Moose1am]

Yea you are right we all should just stop eating and drinking food that can be contaminated so that some people can get a bigger bonus.

NO THANKS!

The air and water belongs TO ALL OF US. I am not about to sit still and let the pollution continue unabated to the point that fish are no longer safe to eat.

And did you ever think that the fish food that is fed to those farm raised catfish comes from? If you think that eating fish from a farm pond is any safer than fresh caught fish out of the wild lakes then you might want to do some more research on this subject. There are many pollutants relesaed into our environment these days and in days past. Some of those chemicals are not longer being produce but those that were produced years ago still persist in our environment. PCB is one good example. This chemical can cause cancer and it' readily absorbed into the fish we eat. Both farm raised catfish and wild fish can contain pcb's. Each and every human in the USA probably has a few PCB stored in the fatty tissue. The pcb contamination comes from the food that is used to feed those farm raised catfish. Now I am not saying that all farn raised catfish are contaminated. What I am saying is that I know of one report that found PCB's in the food and in the farm raised catfish. So with that knowlege it's buyer beware. It's unfortunate that there is not a cheap quck and easy test method that the home owner can use to find out what's in our food and drink. Testing for PCB's requires extraction using Hexane Solvent and a gas chrotomograph along with a skilled Chemist to run the machine and interupt the result. Also blanks samples are used to establish a baseline. And known samples (spikes) are required to be tested with each batch of samples along with some replicates that test the analysists precision. The same sample run two different times should produce the same result. If there is a discrepancy in the test results of a duplicate sample then the test results are suspect. The test procedure should have certain limits that are produced by keeping control charts. These charts are stastical test result that tell the analyst when the test results are out of bounds or not. Also proficency samples should be analyzed from time to time. These are USEPA samples that are of known concentrations to USEPA but not to the labs conducting the performance testing. The same sample is spit up and sent to many different labs thoughout the usa. Each lab is to test the sample they receive and report the results back to USEPA in a certain time frame. The USEPA office then runs a stastical analysis on the reported samples results and this shows the analysist at each lab how they compared to the other testing labs. If your sample results are different from the know concentration then you must figure out why the results were off and fix the problem within a certain time frame. If you fail too many test your lab will not be certified to test for this particular pollutant. The FBI crime Lab has to follow similar procedures of Quallity Assurance to stay certified.

I have three huge 3 ring notebooks full of USEPA QA informaiton if you would like more details.

Stop eating fish? Never. Reduce my consumption of certain fish for the time being ..yes. But I will fight to my dying days to get something done to reduce the amount of pollution that is being spewed into the air we breath and the water we have to drink. On that you can be sure.
Regards,

Moose1am

[Fishnhunt]

The local Game warden here in KY told me that the consumption advisory was on ALL WATERS,including farm ponds and lakes.Fish food IS made from fish.Wonder how often they if anybody check those farm raised fish??? EMD( EAT MORE DEER)
GOOD DAY