West Boggs Drawdown To Begin

[MikeAxsom]

West Boggs Lake near Loogootee, Indiana will undergo a winter drawdown again this year, as part of an ongoing project to control the population of Gizzard Shad. This project is cooperation between the Daviess-Martin Joint County Parks Department, which owns the lake, and the Indiana Department of Natural Resources, Division of Fish and Wildlife. Drawing the water level down during winter significantly increases the chances of winter kill for shad without harming game fish populations.

The drawdown will begin sometime on or shortly after December 11, 2006. The target water level for the project is to be between five and eight feet below normal pool, depending on rainfall and snow melt conditions. The release of water will end when the eight foot level is reached, or when the reasonable probability of freezing weather has passed. Officials expect the lake to return to normal levels during March and April.

[Moose1am]

Mike:

Has this practice of drawing down Boggs Lake actually reduced the number of gizzard shad the next year? Evidently the State Fisheries guys and you think it's working.

I know that at Otter Pit here in Southern IN where the pit is some 60 ft deep in spots the gizzard shad dye when the water freezes over. I have seen sea gulls out on the edge of melting ice feeding on the dead frozen fish that were melting out of the ice near where the ice meets open water areas. This was in Feb March of 2004 I believe.

I read some of Dan Carnahan Patoka Lake survey reports. They first found gizzard shad in Patoka Lake back in 1996 and only captured a few shad in their nets. But the next year the shad population exploded and they found more shad in the nets that any other species of fish. I read this reports online at the IDNR web site.

So I am wondering just how fast the gizzard shad reproduce? They must have a huge survival rate of their young to fill up an 8800 acre lake like Patoka in just one year. Maybe there were more shad in the lake that the survey showed in 1996 and they just caught more shad in 1997 for some reason other than the population of shad expanded but I sort of doubt that.

I know that you have posted in here a lot and think I read that one year you drained the entire lake or lowered the lake so that you could use chemicals to irradicate all the fish in the lake and then restocked it with bass and other game fish. But that it's thought that someone reintroduced gizzard shad back into the lake. So draining the lake completely every year will not work as long as some fools keep putting shad back into the lake every year.

I have been told that the IDNR Region 7 people are going to stock Bluegrass's pits with Muskie. I told the survey guys from IDNR that I agreed with this as I figure that Muskie won't survive these waters anyway. So let them try to stock it with muskie. If they live and reproduce it will create a unique fishery down here close to my house. They stock trout in some of the strip pits up near Sugar Ridge F&W area. But they have to restock them every winter to keep them alive. Our waters have high pH levels and high conductivity levels which indicates that there are lots of minerals in the waters. This is typical of this areas strip pits.

I am wondering how the Big Muskie will effect the lake's other fish. Maybe they will eat a lot of the shad and help control them. But there will have to be a lot of big muskie in these relatively small pits. Some are only 90 acres in size but they do have deep water. But with the thermoclines the amount of water available to the fish may be very limited. These fish may not be able to go below 25 ft deep as there may not be enough dissolved oxygen below the thermocline.

And I worry about the bluegill and crappie populations as well as the largemouth bass Populations. A large muskie will drive largemouth bass out of areas that the muskie frequent. Bass will give way to the much larger and toothier critters.

Only time will tell how this muskie in Southern IN experiment works. I am told that they rear the muskie down in the Southern Park of the state. One of the guys that works parttime for DNR told me that. I guess he knows what he is talking about. I trust him.

Has the IDNR guys ever talked about putting Muskie or Big Stripers in Boggs to help control the Gizzard Shad?

[DSPCHAMY]

See Mike,

Muskie in Boggs, I knew it was a good idea last year when I was asking for you to stock them. Even Moose thinks its a good idea.

Muskie!, Muskie!, Muskie!

On another note why don't they stock northern instead of Muskie? As far as I know, northern do not need the moving water like Walleye and Muskie to spawn succesfully.

I just think it would be fun to be down there and watch a big Muskie blow up on some of those snakes that chase ya around the lake all day.

[MikeAxsom]

Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. There is at least as much we don't know about the process as we do know. A few winters we have had dramitic shad kills, and other years very little. The theory is that we try to take advantage of two characteristics of Gizzard Shad.

One is that they are easily stressed when their numbers are high and the habitat is reduced, as happens when we lower the pool and concentrate all the fish into a smaller area. The other is that they are easily stressed with cold weather, particuarily rapid changes toward freezing weather. The combination of stress factros seems to have a synergey effect when everything happens just right. The problem is that this is Indiana and the weather is almost never just right for anything very long.

While I have no science to back it up, I also think the bass fishery plays a part when the weather is cold enough to kill shad on the surface. That may be because when the cold drives the shad toward deeper water, what they find there is a super concentration of bass; which chases them back to the surface where they have no choice but to freeze or be eaten. Of course this also accounts for the football shaped bass we are seeing in the lake these days.

This project was never designed to remove the shad. Our hope is to have enough years with high kill rates to just help keep their numbers somewhat under control. Like I said, sometime it works and sometimes it don't.

Yes, there has been discussion about possibly introducing another preditor, altough if it ever happens it will likely be wipers. The current thinking is still that although bluegill and crappie are suffering and we expect bass to lose young bass recruitment over time, right now the situation is creating some very attractive bass fishing. While that lasts we will probably not want to see another peristor compete with them. Perhaps once the bass fishery declines, as it always will in a shad lake, we will want another perditor to utilize the shad forage base while we await the time for another total renovation.

[bass268]

What would happen if you would introduce some of the pure bread Stripers ? I dont think they would re-produce but with all those shad they sure would feed and grow to be pretty healthy. Just an idea.

[Moose1am]

I am not so sure about the Muskies yet. I am going to take a wait and see attitude. I enjoy my crappie fishing on my home lakes down here by Evansville. I don't have a lot of say as to what IDNR decides to do. They surveyed everyone that fished while the DNR guy was present and then the Fishery Biologist decided to stock the Muskies

The IDNR stocked Northern Pike in Patoka lake when it was first built back in 1977/78.

I caught a lot of Northern Pike and still have a few pictures of them on the hook by the boat. There were lots of Northerns in Patoka in the early days. But Northerns will out compete bass and drive them from the area that the Northerns want to utilize.

Evidently the Northern Pike didn't breed and build up any sustainable population in Patoka Lake. I think there may be a few Big Northerners still in the lake. I think that they catch a few Walleyes in the sampling nets also.

I really would love to see a breeding population of Walleye in Patoka Lake. From what I have read the Walleyes are doing well in Brookville Lake.

I just hope that my favorite crappies are not harmed by the introduction of the Muskies. If so then I may have to start trolling for Big Muskies for a few years. I have some huge rods and reels that can land big fish like Muskies or Sharks. Wire leaders attached to lead core fishing lines and huge reels with short very stout rods. The rods have stainless steel rollers for the line guides.

And I have a large tackle box full of Muskie Baits. Most of these are 8" long or bigger.

One thing that's fun when fishing for Big Pike or Muskie is to reel the bait into the tip end of the rod and leave about 12" of line between the tip of the rod and the bait. When you get the bait back to the boat just stick the rod back down into the water next to the boat and move the tip around in a Figure 8 Motion. This drives Big Norther Pike Nuts. They will follow the lure but not strike the bait until you do the figure 8 motion and then they will attack the bait with a VENGENCE. So hold onto the rod and reel when they attack. They can rip the rod right out of your hands. It's funny to watch a 3 ft long fish try to turn on a 12" radius. LOL

I have a feeling that the Muskies won't live and breed in these stip pits but I could be wrong. Only time will tell. Patoka is over 50 ft deep near the area by the **** in the old river channel. But most of that water is unusable to the fish during the summer months. Now if we have winter year round down here in Southern IN they may be able to survive and even breed. But it would take another ice age for that to happen.

Regards,

Moose1am

[bassmanic1]

Hey all ,
I ran into the IDNR at the ramp of Bluegrass pit back in the summer and he asked about my thoughts on muskie and I told him it would be a bad idea . The pits at Bluegrass are way to small for a large predatory fish like that . They stocked some in Patoka and it was a waste . Is there a reason for muskie ? Is Bluegrass overrun with shad ? If it was up to me I would stock rainbow trout . I have fished for them up at Green-Sullivan state park and caught limits twice . They fight very well and are VERY tastey . I've never ordered muskie at a restaurant but trout is on the menu at Red Lobster . They are also stocked at Sugar Ridge in Bethel Pit - a waste if you ask me . I fished it in Sep. and it is only 20 foot deep the whole lenght of the pit and it is very small , Bluegrass pit has some 70 foot deep holes and is much bigger . I also belive the trout would help eat small shad plus the extra $$$ the state would make from the $11 trout stamps would help buy more property . Anyway I agree with Mike that drawing Boggs down over the winter will help control the shad but not get rid of them , it only takes a few to repopulate a lake . I remember going to Hovey in the 80's in early march to crappie fish { before the state RUINED it and you could catch a limit } and seeing and smelling hundreds of winter kill shad . And bass love to eat them too so tournaments will be fun , for awhile , until the bass spawns are lost to the shad as well as the gill and crappie spawns . Maybe then the midnight stockers will fish for shad { har har ! } . Seriouly , Mike if you know anyone who is in the trout stocking program maybe mention that Bluegrass Pit would be a better place to stock than Bethel Pit and who knows - bass in CA get to be 10-20 pounds eat trout ! :9

[thompmd]

Mike,
With the bluegill/crappie suffering has this hurt the attendance of people visiting Boggs? For us this past summer was the 1st time in 5-6yrs that we have went elsewhere to panfish. This bothers us to see this fishery decline as we really like the area/restaurants and Boggs but ultimately the fishing is what brought us there and is what is taking us away.

[cgable8009]

Guys as an new observer to the scene (I have only just began to fish Boggs)I think that the reservations are understandable but the results of what the guys managing this lake have right now seem to be correct for the water shed. I have now fished Boggs a total of five times. The first day was with my daughter and girlfreinds two boys we were camping and I managed to find some bedding blue gill and we caught filletable size fish and filled a 5 gallon bucket full of them and had a nice dinner that night at the campsite. I also caught a good 15" largemouth and released it. I fished about a total of two hours. My next night me and a couple of freinds decided to try some night catfishing and this was the only pour fishing expeirence I have had we did catch fish numbers were great but the biggest cat was in the 12" range. My next day I fished I had a few hours and had two bass one about 20" fish and anoth in the 17" range. I had two more two hour trips and one was in horrible conditions and did only produce one keeper size fish but the last day was a 3 lber then an 8 lber and another largemouth that I could not get turned around that was bigger than the 8lber. Im convinced the right stuff is being done on the lake.

[MikeAxsom]

I think you may be getting the wrong impression of the decline in the fishery, and the effect on visitation to the park itself. Putting this in context we have to realize that the West Boggs fishery is so hyper-productive that even in decline it is better than a lot of other fisheries. We are seeing a decline in bluegill and crappie, but not to the degree that they are not worth fishing for. To the contrary, as related by the next poster down on this thread, if you know how and where to fish for them, this water can still turn out stringers of pan fish. Just not as easily as it was a few years ago.

With that said, I can tell you that there has been a shift in visitation patterns over the last couple of years. We are not seeing so much a decline in camping as in boating, and that tells me that there is probably a shift in campers away from fishing toward campers with other interests. And in boating we are seeing what looks like a shift towards more bass anglers and fewer pan fishing anglers. We expected some of this shift a few years ago, and began re-programming to provide more non-fishing activities at the park.

[Moose1am]

I think that the fisherman are pretty smart guys. With the increase in Gizzard Shad comes better bass fishing. LM Bass grow much faster and fatter when there are shad to feed upon. Now the Shad can also be utilized by the Crappie as well. Have you ever looked at the mouth of a crappie vs the mouth of a Sunfish or bluegill? One is much bigger and can open much wider than the other. Crappie can exist in lakes that are small and full of Gizzard Shad. They may not grow as fast in these lakes but they sure can survive and grow to 12" long and 3/4lb in size. You may not have as many big crappie and you may have more smaller crappie but if you put more pressure on the smaller crappie and take those out the others left can grow much bigger. Once a crappie gets to be 16" long it can eat some pretty big Gizzard Shad. Plus I have noticed that there are plenty of smaller Gizzard Shad in Oct and November of the year. I am not up to date on how often the Gizzard Shad breed and produce young. Maybe the shad that I find inside the crappie's stomachs in late Oct were born this spring and have yet to grow too large for the 10" long crappie. Crappie eat a lot of insects when they are young and switch over to a diet of minnows after a while. Now the Gizzard Shad are suppose to be filter feeders. Not sure if they are said to eat minnows. Although I have caught some 12" to 15" long Fish on small tube jigs on KY Lake and I thought they were Gizzard Shad. Actually I caught two of these fish one day while crappie fishing in Sulfur Creek. So maybe the gizzard shad to eat minnows too? Or maybe what I caught on the jigs were not Gizzard Shad but some other member of the Herring family. I am not that good at identifying all the fish species. I know they were not Thread fin Shad as they were too big and they didn't have the long tail on the Dorsal Fin that is common to Thread fin Shad.

I sure wish that our Indiana Lakes could support thread fin shad populations year round. That would be the ideal as far as growing bigger LM bass and Crappie. They still may not help the bluegill population and could out compete the bluegill.

Mike I am sure that you know a few crappie fishermen that have some good spots and that can catch a limit of crappie most trips. Not sure if you guys plant structure on the lake or allow fishermen to plant new structure or brush piles in your lake. But if you really want to produce more fish and attract more fishermen then this is something that may be worth taking a good look at. Maybe you already do that and I am not aware of this.

But if you wish to grow more fish you may want to think of increasing the habitat that the fish can use. Brush piles or even planting Artificial Crappie Trees made out of PVC pipe can really help give the fish some place to hide from predators and a place to hide and ambush prey. These structures can also concentrate the fish and allow some knowledgeable fishermen to really catch a lot of fish at times. They may not produce on every trip but they sure do help increase the fisherman's chance of catching some fish.

A crappie tree can be purchased from J & J Habitat if you are interested. Or you can buy the PVC pipe materials and with a hole saw and a drill can make your own. They are easy to make out of 10ft long 3" ID pipe. Just drill some holes though the pipe and thread some 1/2" id Pipe though the holes to make the limbs of the tree. It takes about 50 ft of 1/2" id PVC pipe to make each trees limbs. Ten 5ft long piece of the 1/2" id PVC pipe will make one tree. I also add a 3" coupling to the mix. I cut about 2ft off the 3" by 10ft long pipe. I then fill the 2ft long section with quikrete and drill in a few 3" long screws though the outside wall of the pipe into the wet concrete. When the concrete dries the screws help to hold it inside the pipe. Now clean off the 2ft long pipe to make the outside smooth and remove any of the dried concrete off the surface. This allows you to attach the coupling to the 2ft long pipe and the 8ft of remaining pipe. You end up with an anchor on the bottom a 10ft long x 3" id PVC pipe. this is the stem of the crappie tree. I cut the 1/2" id pipe into 5ft long sections and push them though the holes in the main pipe. I alternate the angle of each set of holes that I drill though the main pipe by 90 deg. But you can put them at different angles.

It's best to put several of these trees in one area to help bring the fish into the area. And a black or dark pipe color will attract algae much faster than a white pipe. Also it helps to sand the pipes with rough sandpaper to give the algae a good foothold on the pipe. Place a 10ft tall pipe in 15 to 20ft of water along a drop of the top of a shelf next to a drop into deeper water and you have a great spot to fish. Putting these out along a long slopping point or on the Outside bend in a creek channel and you have a new honey hole.

The more of these that you put in a lake or reservoir the better the fishing gets. More habitat means more fish survive.

The PVC pipes will last forever and they can be moved anytime. You may need to scuba dive to retrieve them and put them in a new spot though. LOL A good swimmer can do a pike surface dive and go down to 20ft and back up on one breath. I can't do that anymore but when I was much younger I did that routinely. The point is that if they are put in the wrong spot they may not work as well.

I have put these out in some lakes and caught fish on them the very next time out.

Some people down south use Bamboo in place of the PVC pipes to make new cover in the lakes.

Wood and bamboo works great but it eventually will decay and will have to be replaced with new wood.

Another advantage to using PVC pipe is that the jigs and hooks won't get hung up on it like they do in a wood brush pile. So you won't have as many fishing lines, hooks and lead sinkers in the crappie tree as you will in a wood brush pile held down by concrete blocks.

Also the PVC pipes are hard to see with sonar units. So you must either put out a marker buoy or mark the spot with some other means. A gps unit helps or you can use the old fashion tried and true method of triangulation with land marks around the lake.

Either way it will help the fisherman catch more fish and keep them happy. But to keep the crappie fisherman happy you will have to give them a place on the lake free of jet skies and other pleasure craft. Since you guys cater to the jet skiers and water skiers as well as fisherman you may not have happy crappie fisherman during hot days of summer. But after the water cools down the fisherman will come back if there are good fish to catch. Jan, Feb, Mar, April, early may, Sept, Oct, Nov and Dec can be excellent fishing for crappie if you know their habits.

By putting out structure you can increase not only the amount of habitat and fish but the numbers of cool weather fishermen. And that may be good for the bottom line! ie add some fees to the coffers.

Regards,

Moose1am

[thompmd]

Mike,
Thank you for the reply. From our experience and 99% of our fishing on Boggs has been for panfish the overall size of both bluegill and craippie has gone down steadily the past 3-4yrs. When we were there this year(and the same in years past)we have not had any problems catching fish but the amount of fish that are large enough to eat has went down dramatically and when I checked the fish house for people as well as carcasses there are fewer as well(some of this is could be "timing").

If I remember correctly the current plan is to continue to try and control the shad and at some point in the future a total renovation will have to take place.