Tournament Cheater Suggestion....

[fishbum]

To all tournament directors...
I have a suggestion, and it may or may not work.. but here goes.
As winners of a Charity Tournament an angler "Represents" that charity, in the minds of Anglers. Winners of tournaments are KNOWN for being the winner of Such and Such a tournament. Guys brag that they WON such and such a tournament which allows them to brag and to get sponsors in some cases.
From now on put a clause in your tournament regulations that states.. AS a future representative of this tournament as the winner you agree that if you are caught cheating during the next 24 months you agree to repay all winnings to the tournament, to be distributed as the tournament organizers see fit. (IE. Charity or to the runners up of that tournament.)
Once signed it is a legal agreement. The winner agrees to represent in a positive manner the Tournament and its anglers.
(Even if he is just using it to brag)
NOW..
I realize that will not STOP most cheaters, but it will automatically increase any penalty. It is hard to prove cheating in a tournament once the rods and reels are put away and the check cashed, and the boat is sold.. BUT signing an agreement to repay all winnings should be binding and will give all cheaters or people who MIGHT cheat more to think about. It will comfort those who should have won as well, and clear the air of any stench that is attached to that tournament loss by another runner up. It also helps to remove doubt about the Tournament and Directors. (though why anyone would have doubt would be beyond me.)
Jim Dicken

[Lee]

Why not .... everyone stop fishing "Buddy" tourneys and only fish "Draw" tourneys???

[ranimated]

I think it's a great idea. If directors are willing to stay the legal course to see it enforced. A lot of time and money would be involved I would imagine.

Just wondering.........what ever happened to the lie detector tests. Always threatened but never used?

[JimDicken]

EVERY single hourly winner took one for the Big Bass Big Cash tournament.
Jim

[ranimated]

Jim, That's good to hear. I didn't get to participate in the BigBASSBigCash but I'm glad they gave polygraphs. I had it on my mind due to another recent large tourney. But I guess it's not a technology readily available to just any director. I know if I put on a tournament I wouldn't have the foggiest idea how to get or give a polygraph. A shame it's needed.
Randy

[SSKY]

The PWT does have a format that prevents cheating. I understand why that cannot be done for bass tournaments as it would cost to much. I do not fish the contests for bass any more . If money ( big money) is on the line somone will cheat every time for the money that is just the way it is. Tell me if i wrong I have seen it several times.

[BigBassBigCash]

I hope my thoughts are welcome on this board...

I would be all for a clause such as that in our tournament, but honestly, I'm so new I have no idea of the legalities. It's worth checking into, no doubt. The only hitch I can think of (given that it IS legal) is that the cash (if it's a cash prize) would probably already be gone, and the merchandise (be it a boat or equipment) would no longer have the value it had because it is used or could have even been sold, etc. Even if the law was on our side, would we be able to recover the prize?

Linda Hill

[JimDicken]

IF you have signed a written agreement to return the value I believe you can be held to it. As for what constitutes cheating, I do understand that sometimes guys fish out of bounds without intent. HOWEVER most of those guys figure it out and turn themselves in, OR are caught on camera, fishing the area. I would say that CRIMINAL Charges would constitute the cheating in the case of the tournament cheating I am discussing. INTENT is my main concern, not puniching an angler to makes a mistake and is penalized.
In the Big Bass Tournament you could not weigh a fish caught in one pool in another pool. However I can see someone not realizing where they are and accidentally fishing the wrong pool. They would pass a polygraph, but in talking about the fish MIGHT figure it out with other anglers.. NO NOT CHEATING.
I am speaking ONLY of guys caught with extra or marked fish as in the recent cases. This could be written into the "Faithful Representation Clause" OR standardized and posted in one place for people to read. LIKE a special website.. I have read that site and its rules.
Jim

[CatFan96]

Certainly a good idea, but it might be a little difficult to enforce. You'd have to draw a line somewhere as to what constitutes cheating. If you accidently fish in an "off-limits" area or accidentally bring too many fish to the weigh-in during a future tournament, do you forfeit previous winnings? I'd bet it would be a legal nightmare to ever try to enforce such a provision.

Maybe a better solution is that those convicted of such fraud lose their fishing licenses, thereby keeping them out of any tournament.

[JBehr]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jul-17-06 AT 03:19AM (EST)[/font][p]Sounds like a good idea, but would be difficult to enforce. Looks like there could be a lot of legal ramifications if you weren't very careful.

Another thought: How about some sort of "Cheaters List" distributed to tournament directors in order to help prevent someone from cheating other groups? I realize there would be some logistics to set this up and maybe some legal details to work out, but it could help in the long run. Maybe KDFWR could set up a link on their tournament site and/or tournament directors/groups could put their names on a contact list. It would really be great if states would share this list as well, but I could see that becoming overwhelming in a hurry. Just my $0.02 worth.

Joe Behr

[Danny]

First problem, this is likely illegal. When I managed a grocery store, it was actually against the law to publically display bad checkes, or a list of names of those that had written bad checks. In other words, we could not tape a list of the names of the bad checks we had on hand, in front of our cashier's register. This makes me wonder if you could distribute such a list.

Secondly, you have a serious chance as people being wrongfully accused. I think your log in is Jbeher... so let's say your name is Joe Beher. Let's say in TN another Joe Beher cheats in a tournament and gets caught. His name is added to the list. You sign up for a tournament, and the director publically says you are not allowed because your name is on the list. Now folks think you are a cheater. I think that qualifies as slander for you.

I kind of like Jim's idea. I think there would have to be some messageing of the idea to decide how the repaid winnings would be distributed. Also, getting the money back is another thing. You can sue someone, and win, and the court orders them to pay you, but if they don't have the money, or have sufficiently hidden it, they can't be "made" to pay you.

I wish there were a simple answer. I certainly haven't been smart enough to come up with a good answer.

The best I can say is that if we are so consumed with concern of being cheated, then we need to quit fishing tournaments.

BTW, that's not the reason I have not been fishing T's.

Danny

[Tnstratos283]

Danny: I have got to ask you this question getting off the subject at hand for just a second. Is the deal you spoke of concerning bad checks written a Ky. law that you know of? In Tn. and the area I live they post the check and a list of the names of people NOT to take checks on. Also if convicted of writting a worthless check in a court of law they post a picture of you in the local paper saying your name and have been convicted of writting worthless checks in____county...ad paided for by the person. Just courious. Thanks 283 in Tn. >First problem, this is likely illegal.
>When I managed a grocery
>store, it was actually against
>the law to publically display
>bad checkes, or a list
>of names of those that
>had written bad checks. In
>other words, we could not
>tape a list of the
>names of the bad checks
>we had on hand, in
>front of our cashier's register.
>This makes me wonder if
>you could distribute such a
>list.
>
>Secondly, you have a serious chance
>as people being wrongfully accused.
>I think your log in
>is Jbeher... so let's say
>your name is Joe Beher.
>Let's say in TN another
>Joe Beher cheats in a
>tournament and gets caught. His
>name is added to the
>list. You sign up for
>a tournament, and the director
>publically says you are not
>allowed because your name is
>on the list. Now folks
>think you are a cheater.
>I think that qualifies as
>slander for you.
>
>I kind of like Jim's idea.
>I think there would have
>to be some messageing of
>the idea to decide how
>the repaid winnings would be
>distributed. Also, getting the money
>back is another thing. You
>can sue someone, and win,
>and the court orders them
>to pay you, but if
>they don't have the money,
>or have sufficiently hidden it,
>they can't be "made" to
>pay you.
>
>I wish there were a simple
>answer. I certainly haven't been
>smart enough to come up
>with a good answer.
>
>The best I can say is
>that if we are so
>consumed with concern of being
>cheated, then we need to
>quit fishing tournaments.
>
>BTW, that's not the reason I
>have not been fishing T's.
>
>
>Danny