Heavy Rains and Turnover....

[Stonewall2002]

Man has it poured the last 36 hours. The creek behind the house is out of its banks for the first time in the 5 years we have lived here, and they weatherman says that there is more on the way. Taking a look at the ACOE websit it appears that all of the local lakes have had a substantial increase in levels. A have heard a few reports that some of the lakes arround here have already begun to start the turn over process. My question is this; Will the deluge that has fallen the last couple of days hasten or prolong the turn over process. I know that it is triggered by temprature changes at the surface level, and with all of this moderately cool rain, will it cause these lakes to speed through the turnover. Additionally shouldnt all of the churned up oxygen enriched water help disturve the stratified oxygen levels? Just looking for others opinions and some past experiences from you seasoned vets.

Thanks and,
Keep on chuckin'

[VMAXX]

Depends, all the cool rain will have no effect without windy days, you need the wind to mix the layers of water once they become the same temp., last I checked the temp at Rough at 55' was 66.4* I dont think the surface layers have cooled that much yet.:-)

[Grumpy]

I disagree that you have to have wind to have a turnover. The turnover itself is a simple matter of physics--when the water on top is colder then the water at the thermocline, the colder water will sink below and break up the thermocline. Wind will speed up the process, especialy the mixing of oxygen AFTER THE TURNOVER but wind is not necessary for the actual turnover.

I don't know what the temperature of the rain was for the last few days, but it should help to cool the surface layer and speed up the process. I am adding a copy of my post from Friday about what I found at Rough on Thursday.

"I was at Rough River lake yesterday and found that the Fall Turnover had started (at least in North Fork). The surface temperature was 69 or 70 degrees everywhere I went. The surface had been in the high 70s before and I am pretty sure before it was around 73 at the thermocline which was around 25 to 30 feet. The water is definitely mixing but I don't think it has gotten all the way to the botton of the deeper areas yet. The coves and side creeks had that tell-tale pea-soup green color but the main channel areas was still pretty clear. I still caught seven nice bass in the shallows of some coves--all on crankbaits.

With more below normal temps predicted there should be a full scale turn over soon. Then let the fun begin in a couple of weeks. Has anyone noticed if Nolin, Barren or Green have started turning?"

I would still like to hear condtions at other lakes, and what the surface temperature is at Rough now, but I am sure not many people have been fishing the last couple of days.

Grumpy

Our God and the soldier we alike adore.
But at the brink of danger, not before:
After deliverance, both alike requited,
God is forgotten, the soldier slighted.

Anonymous

[Grumpy]

By the way, to get answers to your actual questions, do a search on Google for "Fall Turnover" and you will get all sorts of good information about the turnover. Be sure to use the quotes or you will get more information than you can handle.

[motalot]

what does the lake turnover do to Striper fishing? Does it send them deeper? Is this what triggers the top water action when the school the bait fish?

[CTFSHWHISKER]

if they start pulling them it can cause the lake to mix and not turnover as bad,are you sure it was turnover you seen or just the lake stirred up bad from the large influx of water,not doubting you but i have seen that and mistook it as turnover.i wouldn't have thought they would be turning yetnormally i didn't think it started until 2nd or 3rd week of oct.but i know we've had some cooler than usual period maybe. as far as stripers when i fished for them regularly at cumberland it would turn in november and we did well down to 40 ft,when it hit full strength turn the sonar was black top to bottom and you had to find places it wasn't cause they won't hardly bite.i did think at green the other night it was turning in spots cause my sonar was blacked out but i was doubting it,although we didn't catch many in those places.

[VMAXX]

"I disagree that you have to have wind to have a turnover."

Catfsh if the surface temp is the same as the bottom what makes you think it will sink.....its the same density turnover occurs(mixing) when the wind blows

[VMAXX]

we can agree to disagree



http://www.in-fisherman.com/magazine...2706_turnover/


:-)

[Grumpy]

FOR CTFSHWISHER: I was at Rough BEFORE the rains, not after the influx of water. The shallower parts of North Fork were definately turning over, I don't think the main channel/lake had started yet, but it won't be long. I think, in most years, the turnover happens a lot earlier than most people think it does. I also used to think it happened in October or even sometimes in November (in local lakes) but since I retired and fish more often, I have found that it actually happens in September--at least it has for the last six years.

FOR VMAX: I think you are reading and picking and choosing what you want to see/believe. I read that article a long time ago, along with a bunch more on the subject, and not one of them, including the article you mentioned says that you HAVE TO HAVE WIND for the turnover and by turnover I mean the breaking up of the thermocline, not necessarily when the surface water get ALL THE WAY to the bottom.

Do a search on Google for "Fall Turnover" and there are dozens of articles on the turnover. Not one that I could find, says anything about WIND BEING NECESSARY for the actual turnover. Most of them do say that wind helps to complete the process of mixing the oxygen back throughout the water column, but that is all.

Also, I don't think you read what I wrote, because I wasn't writing about when the temperature is the SAME from top to bottom, I said:

"when the water on top is colder then the water at the thermocline, the colder water will sink below and break up the thermocline. Wind will speed up the process, especialy the mixing of oxygen AFTER THE TURNOVER but wind is not necessary for the actual turnover."

I do agree that the surface water would have to be colder than the water at the BOTTOM to complete the MIXING OF OXYGEN, but every article I have seen refers to the TURNOVER as when the THERMOCLINE is broken, not when the surface water gets all the way to the bottom. Usually that will happen soon after the thermocline is broken and you get the bottom dredging, muck raking part of the turnover that brings the bottom water and debris to the top along with the foul smell, oily surface and debris floating on top.

However, if after reading some of the articles on Google about the turnover, and if you still think you are correct, would you please explain to me: HOW THE WIND GETS DOWN TO THE BOTTOM OF A 55 FOOT DEEP LAKE!!

[VMAXX]

Like I said Grumpy we will have to agree to disagree I've done the google thing long ago, and of course I know the wind doesnt blow down to the bottom of a 55' lake.... However it blows across the lake pushing the water column to the lee side creating a circulation bringing up water from the aft side, when the water column is the same temp it circulates into the hypolimnion... hence the stinky smell (hydrogen sulfide) most people associate with turnover, what is it that you think brings the "bottom water and debris to the top along with the foul smell, oily surface and debris floating on top" ??? Now maybe you can explain to me how all this decay on the bottom reaches the surface WITHOUT THE WIND ?

Definition of turnover:The resulting circulations will, over time, completely overturn and mix the full lake water mass. This is what is called fall turnover. When the first deep waters rise to the surface, they release their sulphurous gases into the air, often producing a telltale rotten-egg odour. Eventually, the turnover mixes atmospheric oxygen into the full water mass, replenishing the oxygen in deep waters and cleansing the sulphurous gases.

Another:
Turnover: The mixing of lake water from top to bottom after a period of stable stratification. This typically occurs in fall and is caused by wind and seasonal cooling of surface waters.
( oh yeah I googled these)

Not just breaking the thermocline

[VMAXX]

Sorry catfish post#6 was for grumpy :-)

[Grumpy]

Semantics is a wonderful thing--it allows you to believe what you want to believe regardless of what is actually written.

Grumpy

Our God and the soldier we alike adore.
But at the brink of danger, not before:
After deliverance, both alike requited,
God is forgotten, the soldier slighted.

Anonymous