FnF question

[motalot]

You guys have hookedme. Where do I get started buying all this blessed equipment? Just got permission from my wife to go sometime after Thanksgiving for five days.

What would you suggest for getting the basics.

[motalot]

I don't know you but would love to fish with you. I just stayed at Johns Cabin and know right where you are. If no one takes you up on that offer I would enjoy a day with you.

[elnutsmalljaws]

www.punisherjigs.com if you want to do it over the web. You can go to the One Stop in Celina TN to the actual store of Punisher Jigs. Steve Headrick may even be working and he will more than take care of you. For a beginner here is my list of what to get:

Basic Spinning Reel with good drag system
1 spool of 6lb Green P Line (if you are hooking your bobber straight to the line)
If you are using 3-way swivel then 1 spool of 8lb Fireline, some #4 3-way swivels, and 6lb Clear Flouro for leader (Excel or Vanish)
9' FNF rod - Basic Silstar is where I started for less than $50
Bob's Bobbers
1/16 oz Duck Feather Jig
1/16 oz Craft Hair Jigs - Various Colors
1 tube of Garlic Fish Dope

Punisher or One Stop has all of this ready for your taking. Good Luck and Happy Buying

[dpage70]

how'd you do on the pony's elwood?

[elnutsmalljaws]

Smacked them around for a pretty good lick. Walked out with $3300 of their money after only betting 2 races. This was after betting $500 on win bets, pick 3, pick 4 and pick 6 tickets at Santa Anita for yesterday afternoon and went home to watch on TVG. Never cashed any pick 3, 4, or 6 tickets but will go back today and collect an additional $1100 more for win bets in the 7th and 11th races. Made the total $4400 winnings for the day. Pick 6 was guaranteed $1,000,000 pool and ended up hitting the 1st and 2nd legs, lost the 3rd leg in a 4 horse photo (my #12 finished 4th by a long neck), hit the 4th leg, not even close on leg 5 as some bomb that paid $38 came in and hit the last leg. 4 out of 6 for a ticket that paid over $600,000 is not too bad I guess. Pretty hot now for have came out a winner the last 8 trips to the track and missed a superfecta at Keeneland by a nose 2 weeks back that paid $27,000. I had first, second and third, nosed out for 4th and my horse was larger odds than the horse that beat me. The pool for that race was $93,000 so there was 3 winning tickets on that race as it was and I would think with my longer shot coming in 4th would have been no more than 3, maybe only 2 or 1. Could have been $41,000 or $82,000 if mine had hit. Cashed $2500 on the trifecta and exacta bets the race and was the most dissapointed I ever been collecting that much at the window. I had the pool on a superfecta one time in my life on January 21, 2004 at Turfway Park that got me $21,000 on the super plus another $8,000 in tri an exacta bets and cashed $29,000 total on that race. Almost had it again at Keeneland with a much bigger pool but that is racing. Good Luck at Dale

[dpage70]

dang dude you need to teach me how to bet the pony's while you're teaching me how to float n fly lol.

[elnutsmalljaws]

I assure you teaching the FNF will take a LOT less time and a LOT less money. Been FNF for 3 years while picking ponies for 17 years. Just like FNF, made many trips to the lake and came back empty, made many trips to the track and came back with empty pockets. The empty pockets just don't happen as often now as they did in the beginning. Lot of discipline and lot of knowledge and lot of luck involved in Pony Picking.

[Devils Horse]

Used to bet the ponies a bit. Here's what happened back in the early 80's in San Mateo, California. Lost most of my allotted cash, but then hit an exacta in the 7th and made it all back with a little extra. In the 10th, I plunked the whole wad down on a win bet. The horse was from a successful trainer/stable, moving down in class, and used to racing at a bigger track with stiffer competition. A poor payback, but a shoo in that would beef my holdings a little and make my planned bet in the 12th a little stronger.

Since my whole $110 was riding on it, (a huge chunk of cabbage to me back then) I went down to the rail to watch. My horse came around the last turn in the lead by 5 lengths. When he got parallel to the stands, the jockey started making this exaggerated riding motion and was swinging the crop like mad. Only he wasn't touching the horse with it at all, and despite all the movement he wasn't really 'riding' the horse. Watching from the rail, he was running right at me and I could see very clearly as it all went down. The horse stopped running as suddenly as if the jockey had thrown out an anchor. He finished 4th and even the schlepps who had him on a show ticket were on the outside looking in.

The realization that this race and doubtless some others I'd bet on was fixed hit me like a ton of bricks. I tore the ticket up, threw the pieces on the ground, and went to my truck. I've not set foot inside a horse race track since that day 20 something years ago. I admit I've betted small on a few greyhound races since then though.

Not saying all horse races are fixed, but I personally believe a number of them are.

[elnutsmalljaws]

Jim,

I stick to betting the larger circuits and larger tracks like, New York, Florida, KY and California. I think there is far less chance of races being fixed there due to all the money involved plus all the pre and post race testing that is done. Steward these days will look at races for what you described and the penalty is HARSH. Too many cameras all over the track to get birds eye views of the entire race so there is not much missed. With $5-$10MM dollars per given day bet at Sanata Anita or one of the New York tracks alone, race fixing is not as easy today as in the past. The influx of simulcasting has brought more dollars to the table even if it meant less to the actual track. The gambling dollar is what drives the horse racing industry. The takeout of each wager, between 15 and 20%, pays for everything at the track including the race purse plus overhead. When the industry jeopardizes this they jeopardize it all. A bettor that does not feel comfortable in that the race is on the up and up will not plunk down his money and therfore the industry will suffer. The only reason that all that Bluegrass Horse money exists is the average joe gambler like myself and others. When you throw in the floating casino's vieing for that gambling dollar, there is more reason to keep it straight. I don't go as much as I could but I know for a fact that I am approximately $25,000 to the good this year and would do it for a living if I did not have a wife and 3 kids. It is one thing taking money to the track from my cushy job to possible lose but another to have to make money at the track in order to eat and pay rent. See ya on the water.

[snagum]

HEY ELNUTSMALLJAWS, I HAVE FISHED THE F-N-F FOR CRAPPIE AND SMALLJAWS.
BUT I ALWAYS USE A STAINLESS BARREL SWIVEL TO TIE ON MY 3 FOOT LEADER.
WHAT IS THE 3-WAY SWIVEL BEING USED FOR? I UNDERSTAND IN THE DROP SHOT
SETUP, BUT I'M NOT SEEING THE USE OF A 3-WAY, WHAT DOES IT ALLWO YOU
TO DO WITH THAT SETUP?. SORRY I'M JUST NOT NORMAL AND A LITTLE CRAZY,
BUT I JUST DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT SETUP. MAYBE YOU ARE DANNY COULD
EXPLAIN IT, IN THE SIMPLIST TERMS.

BUDDYP I'D RATHER BE FISHIN!!

[elnutsmalljaws]

The 3-way swivel is so you have say 8lb Fireline (2 lb diameter) from the reel to one swivel, your leader made from 4 or 6lb clear line down to your jig off the second swivel, and the bobber hooks to the 3rd eye of the swivel. The theory is that wrapping the bobber 3 times (which is what I have done the past 3 years) causes a weak spot at this wrap. I would re-tie up past the bobber every time I caught a fish larger than 3 lbs and usually every time after a couple of short fish were caught just in case. I won't do that this year for I will be using the 3-way rig. I was using up lot of line daily when you consider losing 10-15 feet per fish on the re-tie. It don't take long to use up enough on the spool to effect the casting distance. This year the Fireline will stay in the spool all winter and the only thing I will change is the leader when necessary. Hope this helps.

[Devils Horse]

El,

Being that much to the good, you're a rare specimen indeed. I knew a few guys back then who were pretty sad cases because they couldn't control their betting and lacked your ability to win. I've never personally met anyone with that kind of success. I take that back, seeing as how we've been fishing, guess I have met a successful gambler. I'm curious, do you use a system, or do you analyze race by race and bet as you go? Do you pay any attention to the tip sheets?

One would assume you could use some kind of computer program. Give all the variables a weight in the program, plug in a given race's stats, and voila...it spits out the probabities. Take those probabilities and make win, place/show covering bets and exacta/trifecta wheels.

Tell me, in general terms of course, how you do it. You should be on TV and Radio selling you system for winning, man. Then you could get rich, cash out, and take you and me (somebody's gotta be your net boy) fishing for Mexican Largemouth and South American Peacocks.