Float n Fly Line ?

[hairball]

We started FnF fishing last year at Cumberland and we wound up using Spiderwire for the main line and P Line fluoro for the leader, thanks to Bill Smith at Backwaters in Somerset. He took us to the back room of his store and showed us how the three way swivel plays a role in the whole setup. He demonstrated how just a slight tug on the main line caused the bobber to act as a pivot point, allowing the jig to dance up and down. On a windy day, the wave action will impart all the action you need, but on a calm day all you need to do is gently squeeze your rod on a semi slack line to make that jig dance enticingly.
We fished Cumberland for three days the last week of March this year and had one day where we caught over a dozen. Two were over 5 pounds and another one over 6 pounds. I think we were pretty well informed. That 6 pounder cost me 20 bucks, but it was well worth it.

[elnutsmalljaws]

As always Moose, you are the most technical fisherman on this board. I don't know about the viscosity of the line and density stuff, but do know when I set my bobber at 10 foot and make my cast the jig reaches the proper depth faster when I use flourocarbon versus mono line. This tells me that it is sinking faster. I count down the fall after the bobber hits the water for if the FNF bobber does not turn straight up when I think it should, I reel down feeling for a fish due to the fish may have eaten it on the fall and stayed at that depth which will make the bobber stay on its side. As far as a slip bobber, I don't think the 1/16 or 1/32 ounce jig is heavy enough to pull the line thru the slip bobber so that the bobber ever reaches the proper depth. Plus, a slip bobber does not turn over on its side when slack is taken up from the jig to the bobber. With the FNF bobber, when the jig has fallen to the proper depth, the bobber will turn straight up. This a VERY important piece of information to have. For you may be on bottom and not even know it, or a fish takes the jig and rises in the water column instead of pulling the bobber under and you will not know it with a standard bottom weighted bobber or slip bobber. The FNF bobber that has the weight centered will turn over on its side when these happen.

[DJD]

Man i'm looking forward to that 5-lb smallie myself. I have caught 2 fish over the weekend on the FNF both of which were fun. Both were caught on a fly that Billy tied and gave me. I really enjoy this technique and will try it alot this winter.

[Moose1am]

Let me go back and clarify what I was trying to say about the lines and the sink rates of the lines. I guess I was not clear. Lines of the same material will sink slower when the same type of line is larger in diameter vs smaller in diameter. For example 6 lb test mono will sink faster than 12 lb test mono of the same type. So I was basically talking about mono or polypropylene type fishing lines.


Now when talking about lines of different materials such as Fluorocarbon vs Braid then that's an entirely different story.

Some lines like Braid won't sink very fast and may actually float? Is this right? I don't use braids that much so I have no clue as to how they behave in the water.


Hope this clears up what I was trying to say.

It's hard talking about this stuff using text only. ;)

I would think that Fluorocarbon will sink faster than braided but maybe I am wrong as I am just guessing here. Correct me if this is wrong.

I guess each type of fishing line is going to behave differently.

Mono vs Fluorocarbon may be different also. I have not tested the sink rate using these two types of lines, so I will go with what you have said.

Try a 3/32 oz lead head jig and the small 1" long foam Betts Slip bobbers on 6lb test Stren fishing line Magnaflex. Use a Thrill type bobber stop that consists of some thread tied around a small diam short plastic tube with a nail knot. Add as small 3mm to 4mm bead stop to the setup. I get my bobbers at Wal-mart in Evansville, IN and in Boonville, IN. Both stores carry these Betts foam bobbers. They also carry a slightly larger foam Betts bobber that works with the larger jigs. 1/4oz jig heads can be used with the 2" long Betts Foam bobbers. But I prefer to use the 1/16 oz to 3/16 oz jig head and the smaller Betts Foam slip bobbers myself.

I have used this rig for crappie fishing for the last 4 years and the jig will pull the line down though the slip bobber at the right rate. Now after you use the bobber for a while a grove may get cut into the top of the foam and that can cause the line to hang up. Just put on a new bobber if this happens.

I can detect when a crappie bite the jig on the fall as the float does not sit straight up in the water. With a 3/32 jig head (minnow head with a 1.5" squirmin Squirt Tube on the jig head the float will sink about 3/4 th of the way down into the water. If a fish bites the lure and removes the weight off the bobber the bobber will sometime pop up out of the water and lay over flat on the water's surface. If it can detect the soft bite of a cold water crappie then surely it will be able to detect the bite of a smallmouth bass. Even if the fish does nothing but open it's mouth and #### in the jig the weight will be taken off the light weight small foam bobber and it will ride higher in the water and about 95% of the time it will lay over on it's side.

I have caught over 50 to 60 small crappie using this method up at Patoka lake.

I showed my fishing buddy. PatokaLarry how to detect the bites by watching the bobber and he was amazed at how well it worked.

Ask a guy named Frank Ison or Brian Etheridge from the Louisville, KY area and they will tell you how well this method works for suspended prespawn crappie. They won a few thousand dollars at the Patoka Lake Crappie USA spring tournaments in 2002 and 2003. That's where I first saw the method being used. But I used slip bobbers of other styles many years ago when I was still much younger. I just never used the Thrill type bobber stops before 2002 April 2nd. I have an entire plastic box dedicated to this type of fishing. I prefer to use drop shoot these days but at times I go back to the slip bobbers and my ultralight rods. I use the short 5 ft long slow action light weight graphite rods with 6 lb test line and a ultra light spinning reel.

I have use this slip bobber setup with a 12 ft long BnM jig pole and with a 10ft long Graphite Crappie Wizard Rod and also on a 7.5 ft long Graphite CW rod.

It would be interesting to have some underwater shots of the jigs when they hit the water and start to sink. Picture in your mind the jig falling though the water column and the fish looking at it as it falls down toward them.

I normally fish the this slip bobber setup between 1ft deep and 10 ft deep. 8ft deep seems to be the depth that I use the most as that is where I find a lot of the crappie suspended below the surface.

The main difference could be in the bobbers used. The Betts Bobbers are very light and easy to cast. They are cheap and disposable and I buy about 6 packs of them when I stock up. Each package has about 5 floats in it.

Heck even a 1/16 oz minnow type lead head jig that I get from Walmart will pull 6 lb stren magnaflex line though these slip bobbers. Now 1/32 oz jigs will not be heavy enough to let the jig pull the fishing line though the bobber and the jig may stick right under the bobber and stay there. Also if the line wears a grove though the top of the foam the line can get stuck even with the 3/32 oz jigs

I take my jigs and tie them to some line and then connect that to a Betts slip bobber and then put it in a bucket of water to make sure that the bobbers sink down into the water to the proper depth. I don't like adding spit shots to this setup but I can take a 1/8 oz jig head and cut some of the lead off it to make it weigh less. This way I set up the jig to the right weight so that the bobber is pulled down about 3/4 of the way into the water. Only the top 1/4 of the bobber sticks out of the water and it's easy to see if that goes under the water. The bobbers are so small and light weight that the fish feel hardly any resistance at all when they take the jig.

I have caught several 1.5 lb White Crappie using this method. These big crappie are not easily fooled and this setup will really slay them.

But I can see that a three way would work just as well.

The bobbers I use can also be fixed at any depth with a small plastic plug that fits into the top of the bobber. Even when they are fished in the slip bobber fashion you can easily peg the line and jig at any depth you want. Then using a long rod to cast the rig out would work. So this system is flexible.

One more thing I should add. With the Thrill Type Bobber stops that are brightly colored bead thread you can see the bobber stop slidding along the water's surface and going toward the bobber. If a fish take the bait before the bobber stop hit the bobber you know you have a bit and should set the hook by lifting up on the long rod. It doesn't take much to set the hook into a soft mouthed crappie. If you use sharp hooks on your lead head jigs then this would be true for smallmouth bass as well. I know that I have caught a few (Lots) of largemouth bass while using this slip bobber setup. I caught one 15" long largemouth bass fishing along the bank at Otter Pit two years ago. As long as you set the drag properly on the ultra light and pay the fish without horsing them in you can land some big fish on light weight gear and have a blast doing this. I tie my own bobber stops these days. I orded a tying kit from Bass Pro Shops and it came with a tool used to tie the nail knot and a few small plastic straws that can be cut up to make the plastic tubes. The kit came with a spool of bead thread that was bright Chartruse in color. It's very easy to see the bobber stop on the fishing line if you leave the bobber stop thread ends long and don't cut them too short. The thread is wrapped around the fishing line about 6 times and then I leave about an inch of bead thread on each end of the nail knot. If you cut the thread close to the nail knot it will leave a short stubby section of the bead thread sticking up from the main fishing line and that will often get caught up in the rod guides when you cast. And that is a real pain when that happens. The bobber stop can move and change the depth and the cast can be stopped in mid cast. At time the entire rig will snap off and break when the stops get hung up in the rod guides.

Regards,

Moose1am

[Grumpy]

I think he is trying to say that: every thing else being equal, smaller, thinner line will sink faster than heavier, thicker line.

Grumpy

[Bonefish]

I think to get the most strikes possilbe, attention to the simplicity of the setup as stated with the proper rod length 10ft, reel with larger line capacity, line (Spiderwire)/leader (P Line Flu), Bob's bobber, fly and even the paste for the fly, is a proven technique that works best. All that is left is learn to throw the fly, know how to work the fly, and slow down the presentation. You may use a slip bobber or a fly rod, but your strikes will be way far less.

[Moose1am]

Are you guys using Flies or Jigs? Flies as in Trout Flies? If that's the case then I now understand what El was saying about the fly not pulling the line through the slip bobbers. A fly won't weight enough to pull line though the bobber without adding some split shots to the line. And that would be bad as they would get the line all tangled up.

If this is the case then has anyone considered using a fly rod with a sinking tip line and a short P-fluorocarbon leader nail knotted to the fly line and then looped to a short 4lb tippet? Put a sinking fly on the end of the 4lb tippet and let her sink to about 10ft. You can then add a float to the fly line so that the fly stays at a certain depth. They make these soft foam strike indicators that can be attached to the leader and that with a floating fly line and a 9ft long tippet would be perfect.

I wonder what it would be like hooking into a cold winter smallmouth on a #6 10ft long fly rod?

I think I see what you guys are doing and why they call it float and fly. For some reason I got it stuck in my head that the fly was a small 1/16 to 1/32 oz lead head jig.
Regards,

Moose1am

[redneckshadrap]

I fish 1/16oz F-n-F Jigs. Hand tie them all. NOTHING in my box is store bought.

Billy

[Bonefish]

Moose, I see the confusion here. As far as I know Gigs are only used with the F-n-F, and when the term Fly is used it does become confusing. Actually, they should be called a Feather or Hair Jig, I think. As long as the jig looks like a shad, it works. I have been a fly fishman since a kid, I have all kinds of fly rods and lines that suspend at different levels. The problem may be with a sinking fly line is you may not get a strike indicator or float in a positon to the level of the fish without a lot of trouble. There is not another rig like the F-n-F rig that can be used as easily without a lot of hassle. However, it would be fun to hook up with a big SM on a #6 Fly Rod, and even more exciting, a #2. I have two #2 Orvis rods. One is an ultralight #2 for bluegills and the other is a Western #2 with a lot of guts that I have caught over 20 bass 4-8 lbs on this rod. This rod is way too much fun for any one person to handle. That is why the F-n-F rods gives a person so much fun. It's the battle...its always the battle and challenge of the big fish we dream about and these light rods are the ticket.

[STONEWALL]

I use the 3-way swivel but I also use a small (#12) snap swivel to attatch my leader to the 3-way. It allows me to change leader lengths and color of my flies in seconds without having to retie anything. I always have extra leaders with flies already tied up in my box. I found it works really well and really does not change the movement of the fly or the float. I also use the fish dope and it does make a difference I have proven that on many trips with my buddies using the same line, fly and leader distance and I still out produce them.

[Moose1am]

OK that clears things up. Yes I agree the fight is the most fun for me. Never knowing if the fish will get off or not add to the enjoyment. I like the challenge that ultralight give me 95% of the time. It's those times when a big 6 lb er gets on my 2lb test line and runs only to snap my line without me ever seeing what the he** that was that gets me. Some times it could be a Bowfin. LOL

Does anyone have a picture of these float and fly bobbers that you all were talking about in the above thread? I am wondering if that is what make the rig so productive. All bobbers are not created equal. There are lots of different types out there.

So a picture or link to a web site with the pictures of the bobbers you all use would be great.


Thanks

[Grumpy]

Moose, go to Jim Dicken's web site on the FnF, it has a lot of really good information and specificially an explantion about the bobber.

http://www.floatandfly.com/

Grumpy