Cumberland River Trout!!!!

[justfishin]

Went to cumberland for the second weekend in a row and finally got them figured out for a few days any way. the weather and fishing could not get any better. We had a great time and caught all of our limmits. But there is a dark cloud forming over the river. There has been a lot of changes made this year with the new slot limit on Rainbows with 15 to 20 inch must be released, no matter what condition they are in. this alone has sparked some bad blood between two groups. These groups are the traditional fishermen, who use all types of bait and lures to catch and keep fish, the other seems to be Trout Unlimited, who wants the river to be made into a catch and release fishery. They are supposedly the ones who lobbied for the slot to make more trophy fish available. While in thought the slot does mean fish that are in the slot will indeed get to trophy size,assuming that every one of the slot fish caught are returned in a healthy condition. Now in real life we know that an injured trout no matter of what size has a slim to none chance of survial rate. With that said fish caught on live bait or natural bait does tend to get hooked deeper and increases the amount of trauma the fish endures. Now this is where the Fly guys come in, they make a good argument that with fly fishing trout are able to be caught and survive better and the odds get better if you use a hooks without a barb. Which is all fine and dandy. So heres the rub what side of the fence are we on, for myself I think catch and release would be redicules. First reason for this belife, as I said the slot limit creates a lot of dead trout belly up, these same fish are the right size for a good harvest and must be returned to the water many of these fish were caught on flies so there goes at least part of the therory that flie fishing will spare the lives of the fish. here are petitions being passed arouind at different locations on the river trying to stop who ever is campaigning for the catch and release only reg.. Now can I definitively say trout unlimited is the group who wants to change the reg to catch and release no, but everyone one of the dozens of folks I spoke to swore that they (TU)were the ones. I told several folks that I would bring up the discussion here and see what every one else thought. But if you do want the river to stay the same and allow a harvest of the fish, please join myself and several hundred fellow fisherman and contact the KDWF and let them know what we want and deserve, along with your help the river can be a trophy class fishery as well as a fishery that is going to put alot of healthy protien in the refigerators of the tax payers who money helped put the fish in there in the first place. I will not get to deep about this part right now, but remember that this river is also stocked with full blood stripers down in TN that grow to monster size feeding on all of those trout that are being release on our side of the state line. ok here is my short novel please take a few minutes and help us to to reach the ears of the politicions in Frankfort. other wise we get shafted again.

[Dave Stewart]

I was down there last week with a group that has been having an outing there now each October for 20 years. We ran into those petitions there and heard virtually the same thing that you did. One of our group is a retired assistant director for KDFW and he was going to go to KDFW and talk to the folks there to see what the scoop was on this and to voice our groups concern about a "catch and release" program there on the river. I haven't heard anything yet but when and if I do I will post it here.

[Chubminnow]

I doubt that it will come to ALL Trout caught in the Cumberland River having to be released...crazier things have happened but I don't think KDFWR would put something like this into place. And I do agree with you on the belly up theory, I know some of the fish I caught AND RELEASED looked like they had a tough time getting back to normal after being stung by my treble hook. I did all the right things when I released them, slowly, easily, moving them back and forth, etc...

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the slot limit you're referring to was in place last year wasn't it? Maybe not, but I thought it was. If it wasn't I was abiding by it anyway. I'm all for the slot limit that's in place, in my opinion and from my own personal experience when I was there last year the slot limit rule seems to have made a difference in the over all size of trout that I caught...very few of my fish were keepers last year, caught a couple of nice 18" and 19" browns, but in general we caught fewer keepers than we usually did before. It seems the majority of our fish were in the slot limit.

Something else that's happened is the state has quit letting the scheduled releasing of trout in the Cumberland River be made public knowledge. I don't know this for a fact but I believe under the old rule there were lots of locals down there simply waiting and watching with fishing equipment in hand during each release.

For what it's worth I don't fly fish...that's an entirely different avenue of fishing that I haven't taken yet...I'm not ruling it out and I would like to take the time and try it out someday, but right now I don't have any fly fishing equipment, I guess I'm to preoccupied with other means of fishing at this time in my life. In fact, I've almost come to the conclusion that when I go to the Cumberland River I only need two or three different lures in order to catch fish.

[Smally7]

I fish the Cumberland quite a bit and agree totally. If I am going to pay extra for my trout stamp and pay my taxes, I would like a few trout for my smoker. I think they should lift the slot limmit due to the mortality rate of a trout. I fish cranks a lot down there, and it is very hard to get those treble hooks out without hurting those fish. I feel that a five fish limit, but nothing over 20 in. may be kept at all would be the ticket. This would keep the large fish that are already there in the river, and keep the angler who wants to eat a few happy. Just my opinion.
By the way, what pattern did you catch your trout on?

[troutman]

i fish the cumberland a lot. i love the slot limit. it has greatly increased the size of the rainbows caught. which is my primary concern. i want to catch big fish. and if i want to eat some, 14" rainbows taste pretty good.

[motalot]

I am a big proponent of slot limits. This satisfies everyone in one way or another. You get to keep a few fish. But the slot limit improves your percentage of catching fish. Without any rules then greed could fish out a place if enough pressure is applied. The slot gives us all hope to catch our trophy and it makes it fun to take a novice with you as well.

I personally release all trout because I do not like the taste.

I would like to see a slot on all fish!

[bmorris22]

Dave, I hope you read my post. Louisville TU feels the same way you do and so does KYF&W. I hope it is clear that we are not the ones with this proposal. We fought hard to get the slot and creel limits because we felt that it was fair to both sides and both sides would reap the benifits. We see that happening now as all the reports I get say the river is producing more and better fish than ever before. Even some of the proponents of the catch and release adnit that the slot and creel regs are doing their job. Louisville TU is a trout fishing and cold water conservation organization not exclusively a fly fishing organization. That said most of our members do fly fish and a lot practice catch and release, but we do not want to exclud anyone that does like to take their limit home for super. We just want to protect the resource from those that are greedy and would that in excess. I would like to see treble hooks cut out and bait fisherman that want to continue to fish and release after they have their limit be required to use circle hooks. Both of these methods catch just as many fish and alow for easier release and better mortality rates. Those are just my ideas not those of Louisville TU. I used spinner baits for years before fly fishing got hold of me and I switched the trebel hooks on them to single hooks and can honestly say my landing rate didn't change noticably. Even without those changes and leaving things just as they are now, the system works. Is there some mortality in the fish released? Yes. Is it greater than if there were now limits and everyone could take as many as they want? Not hardly! A fish released properly probably has a 75%/25% chance of survival. The survival rate in the skillet is 0%!
I like one of the others that has posted do not like the taste of trout so they all go back. Walleye, suager and smallmouth is a whole different thing. My limit goes home with me each time on that count.
Derby City Fly Fishers has a few folks that sincerly believe that this Catch and release "Trophy" section is nessary on the Cumberland. They have the right to their opinion. I believe they are a minority and will not win in their efforts. That doesn't make them bad people they just have a different opinion.
By the way, Northern Kentucky Fly Fishers IS a fly fishing organization and they are against the C&R section also.
Barry Morris
Secretary
Louisville TU

[j5coleman]

I'm a fly fisherman, and I fish the river for trout often. I'm a big supporter of the slot, because, in my opinion, it has improved the fishing. Studies have shown that trout survival rates vary by fishing method: trout caught on flies typically survive at a high rate, those caught on other artificials do slightly worse, and those caught on bait have a tougher time. (No surprises there, really.) I'd estimate I've caught about 350 fish in the slot this year, and I can only remember a couple that appeared to be in anything other than perfect shape when released. I really don't believe I've killed any this year. (I typically use tiny flies, so they hook on the lip and are easily released.) I think the slot has returned a lot of healthy fish to the water, from all types of fishermen. I think the slot is important given how much pressure there is on the river, compared to what there has been in the past. There are plenty of fish in the river that aren't in the slot for those wishing to take some.

As for catch and release, I'm against it for the Cumberland. I think the majority of fisherman would like to take some fish, at least occasionally, and they should be able to. (I don't, but that's just because I'd rather have them alive in the river.) I think catch and release makes sense if the fishery can't handle harvest levels - which isn't the case for the Cumberland River - or if the fish are a native population that would be damaged by a harvest - again, not the case. I fish some places where those things are true, and catch and release is the only way those fisheries survive.

Basically, I think the fishing in the Cumberland River is terrific, and I don't see a need for more restrictive regulations than what we now have. Almost all the fish are from the hatchery, meaning people have paid for them and should get to use them, so long as the fishery can handle it.

[justfishin]

Thanks for your input guys, sorry about all the spelling mistakes in the first post it was late and I am not that smart in the first place! On the slot I am not sure if it was there last year or not I was sidelined all last season when I broke my leg. I can live with the slot limit, if I hook a fish on a live bait and it is going to kill the fish I will cut the line and hope the nature can handle this. As I said there are a lot of folks worried about a catch and release fishery, in my opinion if it were to go to catch and release it would be hard to qualify the need for the hatchery, with the one in Celina TN being that close. I do know the economic impact it would make. The bait stores around Wolf Creek make a killing on trout baits, along with the popularity of camping at kendall and the new private campground, both staying pretty well full. Some one ask what was working for us. Well you name it and at one time or another we caught some fish on it. Most of our bigger fish were caught on red salmon eggs. I caught several 13" fish on a little silver side minnow jig I picked up, along with red rooster tails with gold flecks on it. They were also hitting cheese, minnows, red worms, and I did catch a few on flies using a dark dry fly. Right now if you can be flexible you are going to catch fish down there so good luck and see ya on the river.

Dennis

[troutcrazy]

I'm all for the slot limit! It has increased the size of trout I've caught this year...I've caught more 18in. and larger than ever! I was surveyed on whether or not to have a catch and release section of the Cumberland to which I answered, "Sure, as long as it's not the sections I fish." The KDFW guy laughed and said that many felt the same. I believe we will see a section of the river become catch and release and I'm betting on the section between the gateway rocks and Winphery's Fairy.(sp?)

On the treble hook damage I've fished the Mtns. of TN and they have a single hook rule...I didn't miss as many fish as I thought I would...this might be something you might see on the Cumberland in the future as well.

Lures...I've decided on two lures that work for me...copper and silver super dupers & silver cast masters. They never fail me. In fact one day this summer we were fishing with the SD's and nobody around us was catching, but we were jerking them in left and right. A group of about 30 from Owensboro came down and surrounded us up and down the river...before long one of them walked over and asked to see what I was fishing with...I showed him and then he asked me what one of them would cost...I told him "Today it'll cost you $10.00" He paid me on the spot and caught fish...too bad I didn't have a ton of them because I would have made a killing!

Good luck and tight lines!

[JoeB]

I like the slot, as I think it has increased the size of the fish, and I almost never keep them anyway. However, I'd be opposed to catch and release because I know how many people do like to keep some and they should be able to. There is absolutely no better way to spend a day in Kentucky than floating down the Cumberland fishing for trout and I sure don't want anything to happen that would decrease the quality of fishing there. It's great as it is, so I hope nothing is done to "fix" a non-existant problem. :9

[JimDicken]

I am NOT for ALL Catch and release on the Cumberland River. The main reason is that we stock enough trout in that river each year and pay to stock them that there is no reason to do it. The new slot limit is already working to increase the size of the trout.
Beyond that is the fact that when the river was dammed the State and Feds promised that the river would always be stocked to replace the fish that no longer in the river due to the colder temperatures. This was so that there would always be fish for people to take home.
While I do understand what the Fly Fishermen want I just do not feel that we need to provide trophy trout to the State of Tennessee which would be the main beneficiary of a 100% Catch and release rule.
I too like to eat trout and find them quite good.
Could we make a section of the river Catch and Release ONLY?
Not really practical. It would have to be an extremely long section of at least 20 miles and where would you place it?
Sorry fly guys, I can not be with you on this. It just does not make economic sense. Too many people fish the river to take fish home. It also does not make sense to do it and then send all those trophy fish down stream to the guys in Tennessee. No offense to Tennessee but we already suffer from their Stripers coming up stream to fatten on trout in the summer and fall and those stripers then go back down stream for the most part in winter.
Cut the number of fish taken home or increase the slot, but NO To 100% catch and release.
Jim Dicken
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This is my opinion and no one elses...