Looking for some trolling help!

[Wichita]

I am wanting to get into trolling for crappie and I am looking for someone to teach me the ropes possibly at Taylorsville Lake. I have a Tracker Pro Crappie 175 and want to rig it up. I'll pay the gas and take my boat and buy what's needed, just need some knowledge.p.s. no wierdos please....ha ha ha

[jmwldcat]

none of my bizz but it would be cheaper to hire a guide..most i seen love to teach and pass things on and you could hire one alot cheaper than paying for the gas etc.....

[Moose1am]

Check out www.crappie.com. Jeff over there wrote a good article on trolling crank baits for crappie in the summer months when they suspend out in confined open water.

Type of line (line Diameter), boat speed which is the lure speed, type of lure (running depths at various speeds) and the amount of fishing line out in the water behind the boat are the critical factors when trolling for suspended crappie.

I use a 300 Sized bandit crank bait that's tied directly to the fishing line with a Palomar knot. I use a line measuring device that's attached to my rod right out in front of the reel. I use bait casting reels and good heavy duty Shakespeare rods. 6ft long. Zero the line counting device and put the line in the groove when the bait it at the tip end of the rod. Let out about 50 ft of line and slow troll with the gasoline motor or a big electric motor at about 1.5 mph. Trolling into the wind will slow you down but remember fish will face into the current if there is any. Winds blowing across the lake for long distances will create currents that go back against the wind but under the water and above the thermoline on the windward banks or near these banks. The current strength will be determined by the depth of any thermoclines, the wind speed and the amount of water and depth of the water that the winds blow across. And then the type of land that the wind blows the water into. These currents may not be very strong but they will help push the micro-organisms that the food chain depends on across the lake to the windward shores. This is more true if the winds are coming from the same direction for long periods of time. If the wind is slight and variable then this won't happen.

Trolling with the wind you can put the baits into the face of the fish instead of coming up behind the fish. This allows the fish to see and hear the bait coming toward it instead of the bait sneaking up on the fish from behind.

Getting the bait at the right depth and at the right speed and in the right place is the key to catching these summer slabs.

You can back troll also. Put some splash guards on the transom and go backwards to go even slower with the gas motor. It helps to have a stick steering type small fishing motor and a LUND type boat with high transoms to use this method of trolling. This method is very popular with Walleye Fisherman up North but you won't see many guys from TN,AL or MS doing this. They should as this method works great and really get the baits to go slow and stay on the bottom or at the depth you chose.

Most of the lakes will have a thermocline in the summer months. The fish won't be found below the thermocline. They will be suspending right above it where there is sufficient dissolved oxygen in the water and the water temps are more comfortable. During the day this is where the big crappie hang out. They will swim horizontally to the nearly feeding shelf to hunt minnows as the sun goes down. When they are out in the open water suspended they often are in a negative mood. Or they may be grazing on zooplankton such as daphnia or other microscopic creatures that swim vertically up and down in the water column as the sun rises and sets in the sky. These diurnal movements of this food source is well documented in many limnology books.

The line diameter also effects how deep the crank baits will go. Thinner diamter lines offer less friction to the water line interface and will thus let the baits dive deeper as compared to thick diameter line. Some of the new braided lines are thinner and stronger. Baits may or may not need a mono leader when you troll with the high visible braided lines. You can tie one a 2 ft leader of Fluorocarbon line to the braided line using a nail knot or other knots.

Boat speed can also be slowed way down if you drag some buckets back behind the boat or a drift sock device. Take a plastic 5 gallon bucket and using a 1" or larger diameter circle saw drill some holes in the bottom of the bucket to allow the water to pass though the bucket as it's being dragged behind your boat.

See page 534 of the new BPS Master Fishing Catalog for some drift sock devices. Some of the new drift socks are fitted with weights on one part and floats on the upper parts of the mouth opening. And the tail which has a smaller diameter opening can be opened and close to make it easier to retrieve the drift sock back to the boat while underway. You simply pull on a connection rope to open or close the tail end of the drift sock device. Minn-Kota sells a special connection device (drift Sock Harness (BPS cat# 21-528-876-00) that is quickly released from your boat and that will float the drift sock so that you can go back and get it later. If you hook a fish you can either reel the fish in without releasing the device from your boat or you can release it so that you can fight the fish easier without the device getting in your way at the boat.

There is a book that's been published that talks about how to troll and what lines, baits, speeds to use under different conditions. I can't recall the name of the book right now. Sorry. But I will try to think about this today and come back and edit my post here if I remember the name of the book and where to get it.

Another trick to use is planer boards that will take your fishing line out to the side and away from our boats patch. These have quick release devices on them that will hold onto your fishing line until you get a fish on. The increased drag caused by the fish on bait will make the line slip out of the quick release device. You let line out until you get to the bait to the desired depth you want to fish. Then you attach the line at the end of your rod to the planer boards quick release and then let more line out from your reel and allow the planer board to carry your line out away from your boat. Going out to the side of the boat allows you to get the baits in undisturbed water and also will allow you to cover more water as you troll. You can also drag some baits directly out behind the boat when using planer boards or by themselves.

How can you figure out at what depth your baits are running? That's easy. You can do your own trolling tables with your own equipment. All you need to do is find a flat that is of known depth. 10ft deep flats with little cover is idea for this. Simply troll your bait of choice out over the flat at any slow boat speed and let out fishing line until you feel the crank bait hitting the muddy bottom. Reel up a few feet so that the bait just bounced off the bottom every so often and you then have that bait running at 10 ft deep. Watch the depths on your depth finder and make sure that you are still in 10ft of water. Then write down the boat speed, the type of fishing line. (brand and test or line diameter), the type of bait used and the amount of fishing line out behind the boat. Repeat this in a flat that's only 8ft deep or 12ft deep and you can create a table that will show you how deep each of your baits runs under different conditions. Might want to perform this on a lake that has no current.

Remember if you are trolling against a current the effective speed of the crank bait will be the boat speed plus the speed of the current you are going against. It's like an airplane flying into a head wind. IAS is not the same as Ground Air speed. IAS will be higher when going into the wind or current and it will be less when going down current and or downwind. ie with a tail wind. That's how the pitot tube works in air planes and a paddle wheel speed indicating device will function in the same way in a boat that's going with or against a current. Most lakes don't have strong currents but some reservoirs on the TVA system that are used to produce power will have strong currents on the main lake at times of power generation when they let the water flow though the ****. But the back bays will be calm and that's where I would run the experiments.

So you have line diameter, boat speed, crank bait type. and amount of line out behind the boat. These are the factors you want to play with.

Now as far as where to troll. Might look at some sharp drop off where the bottom goes from 10ft down to the bottom of an old river channel or creek channel. Or if the lake is featureless and dishpan shaped then sometime the fish can be anywhere. Follow the wind in this case. Fish the windward side of the lake as that will be where the food chain starts. Fish may also use the weeds. The outside edge of a sharp bend in the weed line can hold crappie. during the hot summer months the crappie may be out 3 cast distances of more from the drop off and over open water. But they will not be out in true open water according to the In-Fisherman Guys. Trolling should help you locate the fish faster if you get the right depth and speed for our baits.

Remember that suspended crappie are in a neutral or negative mood a lot and you have to get the baits right at the same level of those suspended fish. If you troll too deep they may not bite. It's better to troll a foot above suspended fish than 3 ft below their depth.

But remember this. A different times of the year the crappie are hugging the bottom. During the cold water periods from Jan though Feb in the Midwest the crappie may be right down on the very bottom. According to the new In-Fisherman Book Critical Concepts Crappie Fundamentals the crappie are feeding on blood worms in the muck on the bottom of the lakes. This means that they are keyed into this food source. Might want to fish the bottom of the lakes at this time of the year in the Midwest when it's very cold outside. The old saying that crappie always are looking up for food is false. There are times of the year when the crappie's eyes are pointed down towards the bottom of the lake. They are looking for the only active food source around and that's those tiny critters that live in the mucky bottom stuff. The detritus is full of small critters that the crappie can eat all winter long. And that is where the minnow and shad will be found also. They have to eat too. So it depends on the season as to whether the crappie are looking UP or down. LOL

Most fisherman fish during the spring and summer months and put the rods away for deer season or to stay inside where it's warm. So this saying is right for 90% of the guys that only fish for crappie in the hot summer months but not in the dead of winter. So I can see how this saying got started and has been repeated over and over again. It's true about 90 % of the time. But there are exceptions to the rules sometimes and winter time is the exception to this rule sometimes.

Regards,

Moose1am

[steve604]

Nice post Moose. Lots of good info. Thanks.
Steve

[CTFSHWHISKER]

Taylorsville is not a good crappie trolling lake.In the summer they just move to the original salt river channel in all the standing timber and it would be hard to troll for them.Plus the amount of boat traffic makes it difficult to even tie up in it unless you night fish.

Green river lake,nolin barren rough are all good trolling lakes,i use pink ladys and use small grubs,rooster tails and small original rapalas and they work great start on the original creek channels at about 10ft and work til you catch some,a marker buoy is a must by the time you turn around you'll be lucky to get back on them pass after pass.as said in the earlier post they mostly are suspended and you have to keep hitting them on the head.keep your presentation above them and change speeds.I also use deep diving crankbaits and tie a leader to the back hook grubs work well on this with a 1\16 lead head and you can get a bonus bass or hybrid,i also have a 100 or so old backward running bombers and hellbenders that work great to get small stuff down.If you want to do some fun trolling ky and barkley are great for this in the bays when they come from spawning banks,move out to the first drop contour and drop out a few bandits in the 200 series and have fun most of what you get will be nice.

[Smiffster]

Tim Huffman is an author and outdoor writer he has a book if i remember correctly that is dedicated to trolling. I know one title is Monster Crappie and it is a good book with some details on trolling. hope this helps. But be prepard to spend some cash on the set up!

[Moose1am]

Good Info here!

He's right about trying to troll in standing timber. That's almost impossible I would think. Patoka Lake in some areas is like what he describes Taylorsville.

I am glad that he mentioned tying a leader onto the back treble hooks and then adding a fly or a small jig of some time to the end of the leader. Those tricks I first read about in the Herters Books that my dad left with me. Dad cut out a lot of the good stuff form the books and put those pages into a scrapbook. I remember going though that scrap book as a kid and then every few years I would get it back out and scan though it. I still can't remember most of the stuff I read until I see it somewhere. I have not tried this crank bait, leader and fly method yet but man I should. I'll have to write it down on the door way so that when I leave to go fishing I won't forget to put it on my list of things to do. Some say to take one of the treble hooks off when using this method. I forgot which hooks to take off though, Front or rear ones. One hook set has to stay to have something to tie the leader onto.

I love reading about all those old tricks these days. I think it reminds me of those better days when I was still fishing with my dad. We had a lot of good times together and fishing is one of the things we both enjoyed. I carry on that tradition and would love to pass on the information to people before I too pass away someday.

Take a kid out fishing with you the next time you go. It's something those kids will remember and cherish for the rest of their lives.
Regards,

Moose1am

[Moose1am]

Trolling:
I just realized that everyone has different ways to troll.

There's slow trolling or spider rigging and then there is pulling like Roger Grant does on Pickwick Lake with Bill Dance in Bills Crappie Fishing DVD. Then there is trolling with long lines out behind the boat. These lines can be tied to crank baits or small baits. Then there are deep trolling using cannon balls and down riggers. Then there is a type of trolling that used planer board that take the baits out to the sides of the boat.

All these methods are called trolling by some people! So it's confusing to even those that have been around fishing for a long time. Each part of the country may have their own terminology. Some call a crappie a CROPPIE and others call them CRAAAPPIE. Some people in Louisiana call them Sac-a-laits. Some up North may call them White Perch. Down in Florida they may call them Specks.

So when I think of trolling these days I think of pulling crank baits behind my boat. That's why I gave the explanation of this method in the other post above.

If you want to go into the details of slow trolling with the trolling motor and having the poles out in the front of the boat using long rods and having the baits hang straight down from the tip of the poles then that's a different story.

In slow trolling a lot of guys setup the rods on the front of the boat with rod holders. Titeloc and Driftmaster both sell rod holders for this method. I think that Wally Marshall also has some plastic rod holders he sells though Bass Pro Shops. These consist of a base unit that mounts to the boat's deck or railings. Then a vertical 1/2" diameter to 3/8" diameter metal rod about 18" long is screwed into the base. Then a cross bar is mounted to the top of the metal pole. Rod holders are then attached to the cross bar to complete the setup. These rod holders let you put long rods 10', 12' 14' and maybe even 16' long rods in the rod holders. The rod holders can be adjusted in all planes so that the rod tips are just holding right above the water's surface. Knowing the depth of the cover you want to fish you can adjust the baits so that they stay right above the top of the cover or bottom. Each rod may have one or two or more baits on the line tied at different depths. The rods are spread out from the front of the boat and look sort of like the legs of a spider. They cover all angles off the front of the boat. Some states like IN only allow you to fish with three rods. Some states have more liberal rules and allow as many rod as you want. Check your local regulations before you use this method.

Some guys use heavy rod and other use more slower action type rods that are very sensitive. Most use the graphite rods that have a heavy duty butt or base section to help lift big fish out of the water and then the tips are slow action tips that show the slightest bite. As you move the fish will tend to hook themselves.

Boat speed and position is critical in any fishing but especially when slow trolling. You may want to follow the contours of a steep drop and keep the rods on one side of the boat in the shallow water at the top of the drop off while letting the rods on the other side of the boat stay in the deeper parts of the drop off. To do this requires accurate following of the depth contours. This is where a good topo map comes in handy along with a map view of those contours showing on your GPS map unit. Kentucky Hydrografx has some good maps for sections of KY and Barkley Lake. They can be used with a small computer or pda device and will show you the lay of the land on KY lake.

New side scanning Humminbird depth finders will also help you locate those hidden brush piles or hidden bottom structures. You can chris cross the lake or bay and mark the bottom structure and get it's UTM or Longitude and Latitude Map Coordinates even after you have pass the structure. Simply stop the depth finders display and then using the mouse device move the screen cursor over the structure that shows up on the display and save it as a way-point. Now you can go right back to that way point and fish over the top of the structure with your spider rig setup. The new Humminbird 797 C2 SI Units are on sale now for about 1 grand. If you guide then this unit is a must have device for finding new spots quickly. Now if you put out your own brush piles this unit won't be so necessary. But to those that don't have time to put out structure and want a quick way to find other's structures then you won't go wrong with this side scanning concept. I wish that Lowrance would get into the Side scanning retail business soon. Competition may help bring the prices down for the rest of us poor folks that can't afford 1000 dollars for a new depth finder right now. :(

Most people I fish with that spider rig use small thin wire gold hooks in various sizes tied to 6lb test stren or trilene or other lines. Line color depends on water clarity. In clear water use clear lines. In stained or muddy water you can use heavier lines and color won't matter too much. Some like to use bright colored lines to help them detect bites better. Some tie the hook to the end of the line and then add a spit shot or two about 6" to 12" above the hook. Some tie a weight to the bottom of the line and then using a loop knot about 18" above that they attach the hook or jig. You can use hooks with live minnows or small jigs that imitate bait. Minnow sized and types vary almost as the type and size of jigs that can be used when fishing the spider rig method. Remember to try to match the hatch. ie figure out what the fish (crappie) are feeding on for that time of the year in your particular lake and then fish with that type of bait or try to imitate that type of bait. For example in the cold water periods the fish may be hugging the bottom and feeding on blood worms. So a small red hook fished on the bottom may be the ticket. Since minnows are also on the bottom at this time of the year they too are feeding on the blood worms. So minnows should also work for catching crappie down on the bottom at this time of the year. Other times like in the hot summer months the crappie may suspend above the thermocline and feed on Shad that roam the lake. Find the shad and fish with something that resemble the looks and actions of gizzard or thread fin shad or Herring and that can be the ticket. Catching suspended crappie can be difficult at times. Sometimes suspended crappie are not hungry and are just resting and in a negative or neutral mood. You have to get the baits at the right dept and at the right speed to get the fish to bite. Sometimes you may have to hover right over the fish and hang the baits right in front of the fish's nose for a while before they will bite. You can do this while spider rigging.

If you find a brush pile you want to fish and the wind's blowing try to get up wind of the brush pile and throw out a marker buoy for a reference point. Let the wind carry your boat back over the brush pile and let the spider rig setup catch some fish. Just remember to adjust the bait depths to just miss the tops of the brush pile. If that does not catch fish then try hovering right over the brush pile and holding the rod and lowering the baits into the brush pile in different spots until you find the sweet spot. The fish will let you know if they are there and are hungry. I like to use weedless hooks at this time on my jigs. Oldham Jigs work good at times in thick brush. You may still hang up a jig once in a while but they are easier to get free if you put a weight on the line below the jig. Simply lower the rod tip when you get hung and the weight below the jig will normally pull the jig free. Since the hook caught on bottom of the wood limb the weight will put the hook down and that should free the jig's hooks. I have been able to fish deep into thick brush using this method to pull some nice crappie out of brush piles without loosing time and my jigs. You can make your own weedless jigs or buy them. I like to use 1/4 oz lead Weights. I get them from Bass Pro Shops. The style of weights I use are easy to attach to the tag end of my fishing line. And if I loose a weight I can attach a new one onto the line in just seconds. These are called Finesse Drop shot weights. Look for them in the BPS catalog. Of course any weight will work. But the finesse drop shot weights have a thin double wire loop attached to the top of the lead with a swivel. The line is feed though in between the two wires and then pulled up into the spot where the two wires run parallel with each other. The line is then held in place between the two wires. This allows you to slip the line on the weights wire holder and this keeps the weight attached to the line. I tied a small overhand knot on the tag end of the line to keep the line from sliding though the wires. Here is a link to these weights on the BPS online catalog web site:

http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catal...=SearchResults

I put this link on here so that you can see a picture of what I am talking about here. These cost a bit more than regular weights so keep that in mind.

The long rods help keep the baits out away from the boats and thus will help prevent you from spooking those bigger slabs.

Sometimes I even cast out to the marked brush pile using slip bobbers set at a depth that's right above the top of the brush pile. This is a stealth way to fish waters that are pounded by spider rigging boats. Some guys even take to canoes to get into the back area where other boats can go and that's where they catch the super big slabs right up in the shallow water.

Then other guys like Wally Marshal will put on chest waders and wade fish for crappie in shallow water. just watch out for the snakes when you fish in and among the buck brush in these backwater areas. LOL



Regards,

Moose1am