OK Tournament and Non - tournament Bass Fishermen

[fishbum]

The fishery that they are fishing is not in the same class as what the Arkansas folks fish. I had planned on trying it but when they chose to not use the Owensboro ramp I couldn't justify the pre-fishing and tourney costs + gas. Eliminating the Owensboro and Henderson/Evansville markets and not advertising here was a huge mistake last year and this, imo.

Can you imagine what kind of participation this would garner on KY and Barkley? I'm surprised that no one has done this. A weigh in at KY Dam Village and say Ken Lake and one at Kuttawa and Little River would be about right. I would say put this on a quality fishery and then you could rival Arkansas.

The purpose of the tournament is to promote the Cities on the river. To bring BIG MONEY to fishing in Kentucky. Where better to fish than where EVERYONE has a chance to win a tournament? The Ohio River is an equalizer.
EVERYONE has a chance to win on ONE cast on the river. HELL when else could the average fisherman fish for $20K??????????
Even if it is the river? Enough people sign up and you are fishing for $50K or more??
I don't like to fish the river is the dumbest reason for NOT fishing a tournament like this I have ever heard. No participation means NO ONE is going to try this. The people running it are trying to help Louisville and cities along the river, you can not have a tournament at the OTHER end of the state if you want to promote people coming to Louisville, and Carrollton and Northern Kentucky, and to the small towns along the river.
HOW do you throw a guaranteed $20K tournament and no one participates?
Why would the cost of fishing this tournament be harder than fishing any tournament series? Win a super pool and get a nice check. Win the whole thing with full participation and win $50K... $20K guaranteed...
I do not get it! Where else can you fish for that kind of money? Why wouldn't you fish for $20K EVEN if it is on the river?
Jim Dicken

[kc]

Money is what is ruining bass fishing. You couldn't pay me to fish a tournament for "big money" much less me investing my money for the pimps. I don't care if it is Big Bass Cast, BFL, FLW, BASS, or whatever acronym you dream up. I can only hope and pray such tournaments flop and maybe things can improve some day. I won't support them in any way.

kc

[fishbum]

Money is what is ruining bass fishing. You couldn't pay me to fish a tournament for "big money" much less me investing my money for the pimps. I don't care if it is Big Bass Cast, BFL, FLW, BASS, or whatever acronym you dream up. I can only hope and pray such tournaments flop and maybe things can improve some day. I won't support them in any way.

kc

IF you don't fish tournaments OR HATE tournaments you were not my target of disdain here.
Short Sighted you are.
Without money the tournaments bring you will not have the stocking programs the water quality programs and the protection of the BASIC RIGHT to fish. EVERYTHING costs money and tournaments generate the money that drives the conservation programs that provide you with the fish you catch. Going fishing for the fun of it is TERRRIFIC, but how often can you do it?
Most people work 5 days a week and occasionally get a vacation. Without big time fishing we would still be fishing for bass 10 a day and 12 inches long. Remember those days.. The occasional 5 pounder was a MONSTER. Hate the tournaments all you want, but without tournaments without BassMaster, FLW, BFL, Redman and Big Bass Big Cash, you would be fishing for pan fish sized fish. Fishing NOW is the best it has been since the 50's.
I do not fish tournaments, but I constantly hear guys on here bitching and moaning that the average angler can not fish for the BIG money.. Well here was your chance.
ONE tournament with a low entry fee.
No series to qualify.
No prefishing 4 different or 5 different lakes.
MAYBE 2 nights in a motel, and gas..
A payout you could not get anywhere EXCEPT maybe in Arkansas.
Try to bring it to Kentucky for 3 days.. (less than 1/100 of the year) and only about 200 fishing days are paid. It makes no sense to me.
Apparently it does not make sense to anyone else either.

IF we had made it a $500.00 entry fee I bet we would have had 500 boats.
As for the Kentucky Lake / Lake Barkley thing.. 1500 boats on those 2 lakes??
Its tough fishing there when there are 2 major tournaments on both lakes.. and that is 300 to 400 boats...
No this only works on a river or a long system.. The Mississippi, The Arkansas, the Missouri, some rivers in Alabama and Georgia are about the only places you could have this kind of tournament and have the low entry fee that you have here.
Hate the tournaments but in the end it is the tournament angler that has improved fishing and has improved the fishery.
Take tournaments out and the A R crowd will takes over.

I am disappointed in the tournament crowd.
There are at least 600 of you out there who could have fished one or more days.. Some of you fished the river and instead of taking a chance of winning you chose to snub the tournament. I want to know why?
What is it about this tournament that you did not fish it?

[gump]

The people running it are trying to help Louisville and cities along the river, you can not have a tournament at the OTHER end of the state if you want to promote people coming to Louisville, and Carrollton and Northern Kentucky, and to the small towns along the river.

You said it elsewhere this has to be a whole river event. So why cut off two of the larger populated areas on the river and Western KY altogether?
I understand last year there was poor attendance down here, but I talked to several hard core tourney guys last year that knew nothing about it. And then this year poof sorry this is a Louisville, Northern KY event.

[Basswipe]

I don't like to fish the river is the dumbest reason for NOT fishing a tournament like this I have ever heard. No participation means NO ONE is going to try this. Why wouldn't you fish for $20K EVEN if it is on the river?
Jim Dicken

I'm trying to decide whether I've been offended by you basically calling me dumb.

Here's the simple reason: I didn't fish it because I chose not to. I fished the UofL open on Nolin yesterday.

You know what else? I chose not to because I hate fishing the river. That's plenty good enough reason for me. Dave Stewart said that there were a ton of people from Louisville down at Ky lake for a 2 day tournament. Are they all dumb too? I think they're smart. If I had the choice of being on the river, or at Ky Lake, it would be a no brainer. I'd be down at Ky/Barkley in a heartbeat. If you had the EXACT same tournament format as this one, but put it on Ky/Barkely, you'd have 3X the turnout. Same money, same entry fees, same rules, etc, just change the location to Ky/Barkely. They'd be overwhelmed with entrants. Why? Because the river is a miserable place to fish.

You seem to be proceeding under the presumption that anyone that fishes tournaments is in it strictly for the money. I think you'll find that's not true for the majority of us. The money is a nice side issue if you win, but I simply enjoy the competition and the fishing. If I were there simply for money, I'd be a miserable SOB, because I don't win as much money as I spend.

You need to quit acting so judgmental and indignant because you don't understand the way other people fish. If you're so hot and heavy to fish tournaments on the river, go get yourself a boat, or get yourself a partner with a boat and have at it. I'm sure that those of us that don't fish the river won't be as judgmental of you as you are of them.

Then when you spend your hard earned money on the boat and gas and have not caught many fish, and have damaged your boat/engine a few times due to trash and debris that's always in the river, maybe you'll begin to understand.

[DJD]

This applies to more than this thread...For the past few weeks maybe more people have had their say with the bad tourny anglers that they have encountered. It must be nice to be in the perfect situation all the time to sit back and judge an entire group of people because you know of a few bad apples. Consider how many tournaments are out there and then consider how many times you have had a bad experience. I know dozens of fine upstanding men who fish tournaments and they are productive members of our community with families and i would suspect they have as much class or respect (maybe more) than some of the people who constantly bash others. Get real.......

[fishbum]

[QUOTE=Basswipe;297291]I'm trying to decide whether I've been offended by you basically calling me dumb.

Here's the simple reason: I didn't fish it because I chose not to. I fished the UofL open on Nolin yesterday.

You know what else? I chose not to because I hate fishing the river. That's plenty good enough reason for me. Dave Stewart said that there were a ton of people from Louisville down at Ky lake for a 2 day tournament. Are they all dumb too? I think they're smart. If I had the choice of being on the river, or at Ky Lake, it would be a no brainer. I'd be down at Ky/Barkley in a heartbeat. If you had the EXACT same tournament format as this one, but put it on Ky/Barkely, you'd have 3X the turnout. Same money, same entry fees, same rules, etc, just change the location to Ky/Barkely. They'd be overwhelmed with entrants. Why? Because the river is a miserable place to fish.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________

WHERE DID I SAY "YOU" WERE DUMB? I did not say that.
What I have done is ask why this tournament is NOT getting the kind of participation that many tournament anglers talk about. Here was an opportunity in a fun format to fish a tournament for the BIG money that many anglers talk about, at a very reasonable entry fee, one within reach of almost any one..and the participation level was while decent not what I expected.. I HAVE NOT called any one dumb who chose to fish another water during the same period of time. Your choice.. more power to you. HOWEVER if you want to fish for $20K to $50K this is currently the only game in the state and in truth if you are going to fish the BFL or any Federation tournament series you WILL fish the river.
However your assessment of the river is wrong. The river has good fish in it. The Plapps Tournament a couple of weeks ago had a 5 fish limit over 10 pounds. That is comparable to some lake tournaments and to some on Kentucky Lake.. NO IT IS NOT a huge sack of fish, but the river continues to improve. What I am trying to understand is why there was not more participation...
The river while tough is an equalizer. Anyone has a chance to win on any cast. If you do not like that then just quit fishing tournaments because ANY one day tournament can be won on luck. In this tournament format every cast is a chance. Every Hour there is a winner.
In talking to the anglers tonite at the dinner, to a man they were thrilled with this format. All want the tournament to continue and it may.
Last year people did not believe the money would be paid out.. IT WAS.
This year the money was paid out again despite the fact that it cost around $6000 more than was brought in to pay the tournament out. Cudo's to the KYRA for putting the tournament on and for doing it a second year after losing their shirts the first year.
MY POINT IS.. You will not have a tournament on Kentucky and Barkley with 1500 boaters EVER. No way for it to happen. A river system is the only way that you can have a tournament for the average angler at an $85.00 entry fee and get enough people on the water to pay out the $20 to $50k like the tournament in Arkansas. UNTIL this tournament works do you think someone will try it any where else in the state? Heck no? Not for an entry fee of $85.00.
There in is the point I am making... Why would you fish another tournament for a higher entry fee and a lower payout? Some of you did and that to me is the key to understanding how to make this tourmament work. (IF YOU HATE THE RIVER FINE) Don't fish the river.. but there are enough anglers in the Federations and other tournament organizations who have to fish the river once or twidea year to make up the 500 boaters per day needed to pay out the full $50K prize money and the hourlies. I do not understand why guys who have to fish the river would not jump at the chance to fish it for $50K.
Jim Dicken

[MarkW]

A couple of suggestions:
1)Have it at another time of the year.
2)Charge a $50 a day entry fee
3)advertise at every possible venue you can---meaning handouts at each and every tourney you can find across the state and make sure a flyer is at every tackle shop.
4)Get some more river fishermen involved---maybe on a board to offer help and suggestions.
No offense to KRA, but they know restuarants not bass tournaments. The only thing they know is what they were taught from the tournament out in Arkansas.
5)Make sure each and every weigh station measures "legal" fish
6)Make sure that the payouts are more clearly stated or in more detail. It was a bit deceiving last year and I am sure it was this year because nothing has changed.

These are just a few ideas for starters---I have several more.

[fishbum]

[QUOTE=MarkW;297322]A couple of suggestions:
1)Have it at another time of the year.
2)Charge a $50 a day entry fee
3)advertise at every possible venue you can---meaning handouts at each and every tourney you can find across the state and make sure a flyer is at every tackle shop.
4)Get some more river fishermen involved---maybe on a board to offer help and suggestions.
No offense to KRA, but they know restuarants not bass tournaments. The only thing they know is what they were taught from the tournament out in Arkansas.
5)Make sure each and every weigh station measures "legal" fish
6)Make sure that the payouts are more clearly stated or in more detail. It was a bit deceiving last year and I am sure it was this year because nothing has changed.
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1.What time or year? We had it in summer, now mid spring.. it needs to occur during a period of time that the river is NORMALLY stable.. to be able to preplan the tournament.
2.$50.00 means 2500 entry days not 1500 to pay $50K and the hourly money.
3. All boat shows, all newspapers and radio were covered.. Wes Thomas went on the road preaching about this tournament all over Kentucky and Indiana.
#4 I agree with..
KRA hired professional fishermen to promote it this year. Unlike last year.
#5 The weigh stations were weighing ONLY 12 inch fish or larger. Fish brought in were measured if there was any doubt.. the smallest fish was .68 pounds and was measured. It was EXACTLY 12 inches.
#6 It was clearly stated that ONLY the $20K first prize was guaranteed in the rules. MORE than the $20K was paid out. Cudo's for the KRA for doing that despite the fact they did not have to do it.
As for the detail it was there and that may be the problem.. The legal wording may not have been understood, but every person who promoted this stated it plainly that ONLY the $20K was guaranteed.
I often stressed this myself when talking to people. Regular tournament anglers understand that and are used to the language.. IF you were not sure what a rule meant or did not understand the legal wording you should ask. IF you do not write in LEGALeze then you get in trouble... IF you don't understand LEGALeze then you need to ask questions. I do not understand my Car insurance and not understanding the diference in water damage and Flood Damage cost me a bloody fortune about 10 years ago.. so now I ask.

[CTFSHWHISKER]

i would have to say those who wanted to fish it did those who didn't stayed home.i went to nolin with with my dad and step son saturday night.why must those of us who fish tourneys that didn't fish this one be heckled to the question of how can you not fish this tourney.Sounds like you you are getting a cash bonus determined by the number of entries,my boss gets cranky like that when productions woes happen and it cuts in his bonus...
you do seem a little cranky about it,,,face it,it is the ohio river and i know
lots of guys who refuse to put their boat in it,for any amount of money..

[MarkW]

1) I would say early spring or fall. Other then a serious flood situation---why does the river need to be stable. I've fished several when the river was not "stable
2)$50 is ok---you don't have to have $50,000 to make this a success. The biggest problem last year was offering $50,000 and then backing it down to $20,000 this year.
3)For example---I was at Maysville last week for 3 days and never once saw anything, anywhere, or heard anything that mentioned this tournament. With over a 100 boats there and over 200 competitors from all up and down the river and across about 3 states, sure would have been a good time to plaster flyers on everybody's truck windows.
4)Good we agree on one thing.
5)I don't know about the measuring thing. I know for a fact last year at Wolf Creek they WERE NOT measuring fish. They may have this year, I don't know, but I was told they were not measuring fish---at least I heard that about Cox's Park on Friday and Saturday from a reliable source.

6)Jim, I did totally understand the rules and payouts last year. As a matter of fact I talked to Linda Hill several times and even called in to the Jim Strader show to clarify certain issues. I was VERY skeptical last year.
So, for the record I UNDERSTOOD---but when it came to the hourly prizes---people runng the weigh stations couldn't even tell us if they were paying out 1 place or 3 per hour. So ASKING someone who is supposed to KNOW, did no good!

[MrSplitshot]

I honestly think Dave Stewart said it best with:

"The reason the nontournament anglers did not fish it speaks for itself...they are not tournament anglers."

For me personally, that's why I didn't/wouldn't fish it. I have absolutely nothing against tournament anglers and echo the sentiment that DJD gave regarding everyone needing to get off the tourney anglers backs.
But I don't fish them...just not my bag...maybe I'll try it again someday, but I'm pretty content being a recreational guy.

That said, a few other things that I think as an outsider looking in.

1. I don't particularly care about fishing the Ohio River. Take the money out of the equation, because it's not about that when it comes to me and fishing. It seems like a lot of folks aren't big fans of fishing the river. It's a different deal, and quite honestly, it intimidates me. I don't know how to fish it, where to fish it, how to lock through, how to deal with the commercial traffic, etc.

2. Radio and Newspaper....fuhgaddaboutit....a waste of money. I live in Lexington and really only heard about this event here at this site. Spend less money on radio and newspaper, more money on grassroots flyers at local fishing events/mailers/local businesses/PHONECALLS...hit every fishing website with members of the right audience and geography...and throw in some television in the river town markets, as well as the larger outliers in range(Lexington/Dayton/Indy/Huntington). Don't know what the ad budget was...and not proclaiming to be a marketing know-all here...just some thoughts.

3. Stop targeting the non-tourney guy with this event. Wrong audience. They aren't in to money events or they would already be doing it. Sure, everyone likes money, but everyone doesn't play the lottery either. Go for the tourney guy...but realize that he may not want to skip one of his scheduled events to fish this thing, because he's probably already got commitments...he is, afterall, a tourney guy.

In all seriousness, the money end of this thing is probably one of those "too good to be true" sounding deals...like buying a car below invoice or something. BBBC pays out like it says it does, but remember that we're in a world where people have CRAP piped to them all the time on tv, on the radio, in the grocery store, at Best Buy, in their email inbox...it's a world full of advertising about the next best thing and how everybody's product is better than everyone else's. You've got to sell it, and it's not always an easy sell.

I know all too well the frustration involved with planning a big event and having it fall short of your expectations, but sometimes to your most amazing dismay, it just don't work!!!