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Senior Member
I am sick to my stomach for not fishin it I woulda got the 8AM hourly money see my post about this morning .My boat is old and is not equipped to fish a tournament . MY goal is to upgrade by next year .I fish the Ohio 3to 4 days a week and whoever said it was a gar hole is misinformed
Senior Member
I have a good time catchin gar on crankbaits,im not picky just enjoy a good fight.With gas prices the way they are and most peoples economy shot to hell because of it the rivers my new best friend,but when it comes to dishin out 95 bucks,just didnt have it to risk and the gar were calling my name anyway.John.
Senior Member
[QUOTE=Basswipe;297291]I'm trying to decide whether I've been offended by you basically calling me dumb.
Here's the simple reason: I didn't fish it because I chose not to. I fished the UofL open on Nolin yesterday.
You know what else? I chose not to because I hate fishing the river. That's plenty good enough reason for me. Dave Stewart said that there were a ton of people from Louisville down at Ky lake for a 2 day tournament. Are they all dumb too? I think they're smart. If I had the choice of being on the river, or at Ky Lake, it would be a no brainer. I'd be down at Ky/Barkley in a heartbeat. If you had the EXACT same tournament format as this one, but put it on Ky/Barkely, you'd have 3X the turnout. Same money, same entry fees, same rules, etc, just change the location to Ky/Barkely. They'd be overwhelmed with entrants. Why? Because the river is a miserable place to fish.
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WHERE DID I SAY "YOU" WERE DUMB? I did not say that.
What I have done is ask why this tournament is NOT getting the kind of participation that many tournament anglers talk about. Here was an opportunity in a fun format to fish a tournament for the BIG money that many anglers talk about, at a very reasonable entry fee, one within reach of almost any one..and the participation level was while decent not what I expected.. I HAVE NOT called any one dumb who chose to fish another water during the same period of time. Your choice.. more power to you. HOWEVER if you want to fish for $20K to $50K this is currently the only game in the state and in truth if you are going to fish the BFL or any Federation tournament series you WILL fish the river.
However your assessment of the river is wrong. The river has good fish in it. The Plapps Tournament a couple of weeks ago had a 5 fish limit over 10 pounds. That is comparable to some lake tournaments and to some on Kentucky Lake.. NO IT IS NOT a huge sack of fish, but the river continues to improve. What I am trying to understand is why there was not more participation...
The river while tough is an equalizer. Anyone has a chance to win on any cast. If you do not like that then just quit fishing tournaments because ANY one day tournament can be won on luck. In this tournament format every cast is a chance. Every Hour there is a winner.
In talking to the anglers tonite at the dinner, to a man they were thrilled with this format. All want the tournament to continue and it may.
Last year people did not believe the money would be paid out.. IT WAS.
This year the money was paid out again despite the fact that it cost around $6000 more than was brought in to pay the tournament out. Cudo's to the KYRA for putting the tournament on and for doing it a second year after losing their shirts the first year.
MY POINT IS.. You will not have a tournament on Kentucky and Barkley with 1500 boaters EVER. No way for it to happen. A river system is the only way that you can have a tournament for the average angler at an $85.00 entry fee and get enough people on the water to pay out the $20 to $50k like the tournament in Arkansas. UNTIL this tournament works do you think someone will try it any where else in the state? Heck no? Not for an entry fee of $85.00.
There in is the point I am making... Why would you fish another tournament for a higher entry fee and a lower payout? Some of you did and that to me is the key to understanding how to make this tourmament work. (IF YOU HATE THE RIVER FINE) Don't fish the river.. but there are enough anglers in the Federations and other tournament organizations who have to fish the river once or twidea year to make up the 500 boaters per day needed to pay out the full $50K prize money and the hourlies. I do not understand why guys who have to fish the river would not jump at the chance to fish it for $50K.
Jim Dicken
Senior Member
A couple of suggestions:
1)Have it at another time of the year.
2)Charge a $50 a day entry fee
3)advertise at every possible venue you can---meaning handouts at each and every tourney you can find across the state and make sure a flyer is at every tackle shop.
4)Get some more river fishermen involved---maybe on a board to offer help and suggestions.
No offense to KRA, but they know restuarants not bass tournaments. The only thing they know is what they were taught from the tournament out in Arkansas.
5)Make sure each and every weigh station measures "legal" fish
6)Make sure that the payouts are more clearly stated or in more detail. It was a bit deceiving last year and I am sure it was this year because nothing has changed.
These are just a few ideas for starters---I have several more.
Senior Member
[QUOTE=MarkW;297322]A couple of suggestions:
1)Have it at another time of the year.
2)Charge a $50 a day entry fee
3)advertise at every possible venue you can---meaning handouts at each and every tourney you can find across the state and make sure a flyer is at every tackle shop.
4)Get some more river fishermen involved---maybe on a board to offer help and suggestions.
No offense to KRA, but they know restuarants not bass tournaments. The only thing they know is what they were taught from the tournament out in Arkansas.
5)Make sure each and every weigh station measures "legal" fish
6)Make sure that the payouts are more clearly stated or in more detail. It was a bit deceiving last year and I am sure it was this year because nothing has changed.
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1.What time or year? We had it in summer, now mid spring.. it needs to occur during a period of time that the river is NORMALLY stable.. to be able to preplan the tournament.
2.$50.00 means 2500 entry days not 1500 to pay $50K and the hourly money.
3. All boat shows, all newspapers and radio were covered.. Wes Thomas went on the road preaching about this tournament all over Kentucky and Indiana.
#4 I agree with..
KRA hired professional fishermen to promote it this year. Unlike last year.
#5 The weigh stations were weighing ONLY 12 inch fish or larger. Fish brought in were measured if there was any doubt.. the smallest fish was .68 pounds and was measured. It was EXACTLY 12 inches.
#6 It was clearly stated that ONLY the $20K first prize was guaranteed in the rules. MORE than the $20K was paid out. Cudo's for the KRA for doing that despite the fact they did not have to do it.
As for the detail it was there and that may be the problem.. The legal wording may not have been understood, but every person who promoted this stated it plainly that ONLY the $20K was guaranteed.
I often stressed this myself when talking to people. Regular tournament anglers understand that and are used to the language.. IF you were not sure what a rule meant or did not understand the legal wording you should ask. IF you do not write in LEGALeze then you get in trouble... IF you don't understand LEGALeze then you need to ask questions. I do not understand my Car insurance and not understanding the diference in water damage and Flood Damage cost me a bloody fortune about 10 years ago.. so now I ask.
Senior Member
i would have to say those who wanted to fish it did those who didn't stayed home.i went to nolin with with my dad and step son saturday night.why must those of us who fish tourneys that didn't fish this one be heckled to the question of how can you not fish this tourney.Sounds like you you are getting a cash bonus determined by the number of entries,my boss gets cranky like that when productions woes happen and it cuts in his bonus...
you do seem a little cranky about it,,,face it,it is the ohio river and i know
lots of guys who refuse to put their boat in it,for any amount of money..
Senior Member
1) I would say early spring or fall. Other then a serious flood situation---why does the river need to be stable. I've fished several when the river was not "stable
2)$50 is ok---you don't have to have $50,000 to make this a success. The biggest problem last year was offering $50,000 and then backing it down to $20,000 this year.
3)For example---I was at Maysville last week for 3 days and never once saw anything, anywhere, or heard anything that mentioned this tournament. With over a 100 boats there and over 200 competitors from all up and down the river and across about 3 states, sure would have been a good time to plaster flyers on everybody's truck windows.
4)Good we agree on one thing.
5)I don't know about the measuring thing. I know for a fact last year at Wolf Creek they WERE NOT measuring fish. They may have this year, I don't know, but I was told they were not measuring fish---at least I heard that about Cox's Park on Friday and Saturday from a reliable source.
6)Jim, I did totally understand the rules and payouts last year. As a matter of fact I talked to Linda Hill several times and even called in to the Jim Strader show to clarify certain issues. I was VERY skeptical last year.
So, for the record I UNDERSTOOD---but when it came to the hourly prizes---people runng the weigh stations couldn't even tell us if they were paying out 1 place or 3 per hour. So ASKING someone who is supposed to KNOW, did no good!
Senior Member
I honestly think Dave Stewart said it best with:
"The reason the nontournament anglers did not fish it speaks for itself...they are not tournament anglers."
For me personally, that's why I didn't/wouldn't fish it. I have absolutely nothing against tournament anglers and echo the sentiment that DJD gave regarding everyone needing to get off the tourney anglers backs.
But I don't fish them...just not my bag...maybe I'll try it again someday, but I'm pretty content being a recreational guy.
That said, a few other things that I think as an outsider looking in.
1. I don't particularly care about fishing the Ohio River. Take the money out of the equation, because it's not about that when it comes to me and fishing. It seems like a lot of folks aren't big fans of fishing the river. It's a different deal, and quite honestly, it intimidates me. I don't know how to fish it, where to fish it, how to lock through, how to deal with the commercial traffic, etc.
2. Radio and Newspaper....fuhgaddaboutit....a waste of money. I live in Lexington and really only heard about this event here at this site. Spend less money on radio and newspaper, more money on grassroots flyers at local fishing events/mailers/local businesses/PHONECALLS...hit every fishing website with members of the right audience and geography...and throw in some television in the river town markets, as well as the larger outliers in range(Lexington/Dayton/Indy/Huntington). Don't know what the ad budget was...and not proclaiming to be a marketing know-all here...just some thoughts.
3. Stop targeting the non-tourney guy with this event. Wrong audience. They aren't in to money events or they would already be doing it. Sure, everyone likes money, but everyone doesn't play the lottery either. Go for the tourney guy...but realize that he may not want to skip one of his scheduled events to fish this thing, because he's probably already got commitments...he is, afterall, a tourney guy.
In all seriousness, the money end of this thing is probably one of those "too good to be true" sounding deals...like buying a car below invoice or something. BBBC pays out like it says it does, but remember that we're in a world where people have CRAP piped to them all the time on tv, on the radio, in the grocery store, at Best Buy, in their email inbox...it's a world full of advertising about the next best thing and how everybody's product is better than everyone else's. You've got to sell it, and it's not always an easy sell.
I know all too well the frustration involved with planning a big event and having it fall short of your expectations, but sometimes to your most amazing dismay, it just don't work!!!
Senior Member
Originally Posted by MarkW
The rules included the participation notes..
The KRA did not know until the last day how many would participate.
BEYOND that what did you want them to tell you?
When not enough people participated they were not required by the rules to even pay the HOURLY WINNERS and yet they did. That was a stand up action on their part. They paid over $50K and only took in as I recall and I am not exact here in the neighborhood of $8500.00 to $10K.
Do the math. They LOST over $45K.
And still they came back.
As for the measuring thing.. There was a board at the weigh station and the weigh master had the discression to measure fish. If a fish was obviously over 12 inches they did not measure it and I did not see any weighed that were not. I do not know about Wolf Creek I was at Cox's Park.
Junior Member
Wow! I am really sad to see the negativity about this tournament.
I've read the posts on this thread and I am taking the liberty of speaking to as many of them as I can because the vision of this tournament is so much bigger than just another tournament (that none of you really have to support). I'm not here to attack anyone for not participating, I'm not here to attack anyone for anything. What I would like to do is present a few facts, introduce a few ideas and ask that the anglers who read this might entertain a different perspective on the impact that this tournament could have.
I understand that in today's society people of all walks of life, of all hobbies, of all sports, and of all professions have been swindled, duped, deceived, etc. at least once and probably more than once. Therefore, I understand skepticism to some degree. I am an extreme skeptic, myself. I was also the BBBC tournament director last year and I can assure you all that the KRA isn't being duped by outside tourney organizers and the KRA isn't trying to dupe any anglers or hobby fishermen either.
Although I am no longer with the KRA and was not involved with the tournament this year once the date was set, I believed from the birth of the idea to duplicate the Arkansas tournament and I still FIRMLY believe this could be a wonderful opportunity for so many on so many levels. Forgive me for the length of this post.
First of all, the KRA has done their homework about this type of tournament. It really is quite simple and because of it's format, not only are a lot of the rules for tournaments this area is used to not required, but they simply don't fit. Because of the format, different steps (that are actually more expensive) are taken to prevent or detect cheating, not fewer steps. Many anglers here are not accustomed to this format and therefore are afraid of it. Understandably so, since so many times tourneys have been tainted with the few who think they can get away with cheating their way to a prize. That's unfortunate for all tournaments, especially one with a different format.
It was (and hopefully still is) the vision from the beginning, to follow the footsteps of the Arkansas Hospitality Association (who knows the same thing the KRA does--restaurants and not fishing) and grow this tournament (instead of shrink it) each year into THE non-club tournament of the year--there was and is NO desire to compete with club tournaments. The question was asked last year in September about dates so that this year would NOT clash with clubs. The dates were presented here and there was not one post saying that it was not a good date. All replies were in agreement. The KBF was consulted in advance and then notified when the date was set and a month or so later set their Point Park tourney on the same date. We worked feverishly to set the dates and post them on this site before club tournament dates were set.
Several posts said that the river was dirty, the fishery in the river is bad, they didn't know the river, etc. The river is in better shape--both with cleanliness and fish--than it has been in years. The river has had a horrible reputation for years and was deserving for a long time, but that IS changing--even much to my surprise. I'm not just guessing or mimicking what I've heard--I have two sons who have fished the river almost every warm weekend for the last seven years. The size of the fish may not be as large as Arkansas, but neither is the length requirement in the rules. And everyone is fishing in the same river with the same fish and if you don't like one pool you can move to another one the next day or even the same da if you so choose. Maybe you don't catch the big one, but hourly prize money can and was won by 1 and 2 pounders. As long as the fish are 12", they truly have the chance of hourly money. If the participation would be there (and it's not unrealistic), there are 290 ways to win money. How many tournaments offer that many ways to win?
The support of this tournament by the anglers and by the boat dealers and by the tackle shops would mean more fishermen being drawn to the river. More fishermen on the river would mean more fishermen in other tournments held on the river--maybe even more fishermen joining and supporting clubs. And it would mean that more attention is drawn to the river--and then maybe that would mean that the government might decide that they need to clean it up even more and possibly stock it even more with all of the attention that the river is getting. And going back to the Arkansas model, the BBBC could work with the KDFW to stock it. Last year in Arkansas the hatchery gave every fisherman 50 fingerlings to take to his favorite spot and release on the first day. How cool if we could work our tournament here in Kentucky to that point. How cool that would be for every angler, every hobby fisherman, every club, every tackle shop, every city up and down the river as well as every city that anglers live in, etc. etc.
THAT in a nutshell was the vision of this tournament. It is heartbreaking--and I am speaking from experience last year--to not be able to pay out ALL of the prize money that wasn't guaranteed. You guys don't know how hard it is to stand up in front of the dinner guests and announce that we did not have enough participation to pay every prize. My heart goes out to Mark, Stacy, Christine and Shannon because I know that this tournament was intended to be a POSITIVE impact on EVERYONE involved and they went home tonight heartbroken.
I beg you all, please don't bash, don't criticize, don't complain--they don't deserve it. Instead, support the vision of this tournament because, in the long run, it means so much more than the three day event. I just wish you guys could see it.
Best regards,
Linda Hill
Junior Member
Two more quick things--
You didn't have to lock through. The dams this year were the pool boundaries.
Just like last year, you could trailer your fish to the weigh-in site to save time. As long as you kept your fish alive.
Linda
Senior Member
I think most of the serious guys pretty much set up a budget to fish one or maybe two circuits a year(at least in my case) and with the price of gas it's pretty hard to deviate from that...yeah I know its only 95.00 but you forgot to add 165.00 to fill my boat,75.00 to fill my truck, might not seem like much but thats over one entry into BFL. While they may have a 35,000.00 setup(which is actually very low for todays rigs) they may be commited to other circuits and have the money budgeted for that so that 95.+ a day is actually alot in the scheme of a year.
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