West Boggs Drawdown

[MikeAxsom]

Sorry guys, but I’ve been a little busy lately and seem to have left some questions unanswered. Let me play a little cleanup here.

Bassmaniac1 asked:

Mike ,
I have a question . The few times I have been to Boggs I had to pay at the gate to get in . How do the people who illegaly stock shad get past the gate without getting caught ? If the ranger at the gate checks each truck really well they should be able to find anything holding water by rocking the boat and listening for a sloshing sound { except for the fuel tank } which they would have to have to keep the shad alive . Every tournament Ive been in they check livewells to cut down on cheating . Also , if the gate isnt attended at night and anyone can come and go as they please then you will never stop this activity from going on.

First, West Boggs hosts something like 200,000 visitor days per year of all sorts of outdoor recreation. It would just not be possible, nor would it be tolerated, if we did a high level inspection of every vehicle and boat entering the property. There is the added problem that the gate is only manned about 8 months per year, with the off season open for use at no charge. And there are two causeways on the lake that would negate the idea that the park’s main entrance is the only access point for any illegal stocking effort.

Moose1am asked:

Hey Mike:

This post or thread got me to thinking. I was wondering how deep the lake is when it's drawn down to 491.6 ft? How much area of the lake will still have deep water. Water deeper than say 20ft?

During the winter the fish hug the bottom as that's where the warmest water is located when there is ice on the lake. So the shad are going to be stuck in the deepest water with all the other fish.

If the water's not that deep then the shad will be exposed to even colder water. I think it's 39 deg F where water is at the most dense. And at 40 deg and 38 deg it starts getting less dense and actually floats above the 39 deg F water.

I really don’t have the exact answers to those questions. When the lake is full, the deepest place is right at 29 feet; and the average depth is listed as 12 feet. That would mean that with an eight foot drawdown the deepest place would be 21 feet. I don’t think the math is that simple for the average depth, but it might then be somewhere around four to six feet. The eight foot drawdown is our target, as it gives us an approximate surface area reduction of about 50%. If we go more than that we risk over stressing the game fish; less and we get lower probabilities of a shad kill.

You are correct about the other factors. We think part of what makes this work, when it does work, is the stacking up of stress factors on the shad. If they go deep the bass eat them, but if the go shallow, the cold kills them’ and if they go back and forth, the wear themselves out. And still it only works sometimes and then only to a limited degree. It is not nearly a good a control a a complete renovation of the fishery, but happens to be the only control measure available to us at this time, so that’s what we’ll use

[bassmanic1]

Mike ,
Thanks for the answers and I hope I didnt hit a sore spot . Sounds like Topwater hit the nail on the head and the shad problem wont go away . Maybe stocking Wipers or Stripers might help control them . Many years ago we used to fish at PSI near Princeton IN for Wipers and they are a blast to catch . I would stop at my local grocery stores seafood counter and ask if they had any old shrimp that they couldnt sell , then freeze it and use it for bait for Wipers . It worked very well and we would get some catfish too . I was wondering if anyone up your way fishes Huntingburgh lake . Ive heard that it has some crappie .
Tight lines

[MikeAxsom]

As I’ve noted here before, the West Boggs fishery is managed by the Indiana Department of Natural Resources, Division of Fish and Wildlife, and more directly by the District Fisheries Biologists from the Avoca office. I think they do a fine job, and I’m certain they know far more than I do about fisheries management in general, and invasive species problems in particular. As the manager of the county parks department that owns and operates West Boggs, I feel very fortunate to have such a valuable and professional resource available to provide the fisheries management side of our overall management of West Boggs Lake.
That said, I think it is important for readers here to know and understand a few things. First, if it were feasible for our department to hire our own fisheries experts and take over that duty from IDNR, I would still think long and hard before doing so. But suggestions for me, or my organization, to begin introducing additional species to the lake to accomplish this or that perceived objective are really saying that we should reject the management plans and decisions of the professionals now doing that work, in favor of some other plan that is far less well thought out. All things considered, if I were to drop in a few wipers, I would be doing the same thing as the guys that dropped in a few shad. Fisheries management by a sort of good-ol-boy, trial and error system in not something I am interested in getting into.
I sincerely hope that the opinions expressed by a few here are not correct. Because if it is there is no real chance to manage a fishery like West Boggs without seeing shad, or other species re-introduced no matter what we do. If that is so, then it is not likely that we will see another renovation funded, and that means the fishery will likely be no better overall than it is now. That would be unfortunate for a lot of people, including the many recreational anglers that were finding West Boggs to be a great place to bring their families to pan fish before the shad problem re-occurred. What we are saying by taking this approach is that our fisheries can be no better than the worst case scenario foisted upon us by a few knuckleheads that think they know more than the pros about management. I have come under fire on this forum before for saying that my department is working to make West Boggs a marketable venue for activities other than fishing; but if we can’t have quality fishing we are going to have to have something else. Anglers of all types need to consider such issues and decide if they want to be part of the problem or part of the cure. I think we can do better, and I hope we get the chance.

[bassmanic1]

Mike ,
I really dont know how to take your last posting . I was only making a suggestion and know that it would require a lot of study by the right professionals before any changes or fish are stocked in a body of water . I wasnt suggesting "dropping a few wipers" in West Boggs , and Im not a "good ol boy" either . I have fished Indiana waters for the last 30 years and have seen a lot of our states mangement of public waters fall flat on its face . Hovey Lake in southern IN is perfect example but I dont really want to get into that here . What Im trying to say is most of us here my not be Rhode Scholars but we are honest , hard working Americans and not criminals .

[MikeAxsom]

Mike ,
I really dont know how to take your last posting . I was only making a suggestion and know that it would require a lot of study by the right professionals before any changes or fish are stocked in a body of water . I wasnt suggesting "dropping a few wipers" in West Boggs , and Im not a "good ol boy" either . I have fished Indiana waters for the last 30 years and have seen a lot of our states mangement of public waters fall flat on its face . Hovey Lake in southern IN is perfect example but I dont really want to get into that here . What Im trying to say is most of us here my not be Rhode Scholars but we are honest , hard working Americans and not criminals .

Sorry if my last post hit you wrong, but I did not intend for it to attack you or your other posts. And I totally agree that most of us here are honest and do not engage in such things as illegal stockings. In fact, my larger point in this entire thread is that the problems are really caused by just a very few individuals; and that it would be in the best interests of the rest of us to quit helping them hide in the fog of misunderstanding and misplaced camaraderie.

Education is the key and I think that the 99.9% of anglers that are honest and appreciative of the resource would do well to help make that education happen. Or at least not try to prevent it and continue to give cover to the few morons that create the problems in the first place. I suspect that one of the problems with the shad issue is the fact that people read about how those huge bass in the south are possible because of the shad forage there. That theme shows up in magazine articles, bait designs, and lure promotions on a large scale. But almost never do those efforts explain the differences in shad.

My challenge to anglers, again, is to become part of the cure. That can be done at the individual level, in those millions of bait shop and boat ramp conversations that take place every day. Or it can take place in conversations among clubs and organizations that could take a more proactive approach to explaining things like the difference between Gizzard Shad and Threadfin Shad to their membership.

[skeeter sf150sx]

Kevin Vandamm said at the Sooner Run event in Oklahoma that he believes the reason that lake has such a great fishery and large numbers of Bass is because Bass are the dominant predator. (But in the same respect they probably have threadfin shad) They have no competition from strippers or any other big fish. Hopefully that will be the case at Boggs. But hey neither Kevin nor I are professional lake people but everyone has their own beliefs. (kind of like religion)

[Moose1am]

Hey maybe with global warming the average and min temperatures of the Indiana Lakes will be warm enough to support populations of Threadfin shad year round. Now that's what we need to improve the size of our bass and other sport fish.

Threadfin shad don't get nearly a big as Gizzard Shad and are edible throughout their life cycle.

If you want to see big bass and fast growing Crappie just look for a lake that can support threadfin shad.

Right now those include Gibson Lake (Although it's closed permanently now) and Turtle Creek.. I was informed that Hovey's lake located at the very southern tip of IN in Posey County has Threadfin as it's connected to the Ohio River. I guess it's far enough South to sustain the Threadfin. Although my guess is that the threadfin spend the winter in the river and then repopulate Hoveys with the Spring Floods. BTW the drain's gates is kept open so fish can swim though it from the river into Hovey's and back out at will. The concrete structure is still there but the gate is open. I was told this by Hovey's Assistance Property Manager so he should know.

Threadfin also spawn more than one time so there is a lot more fry and YOTY swimming in lakes that have threadfin shad in them.

[Moose1am]

It's so easy these days to go online and google up some references about Threadfin Shad and Gizzard Shad.

www.google.com Then type into the search box Threadfin Shad and see what you can find!

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=threadfin+shad


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...ad&btnG=Search


And it's very easy to tell the two types of shad apart if you look at the dorsal (top) fin. There is a long thread like thing that extends from the back of the dorsal fin on the threadfin shad. Thus the name Threadfin!

Threadfin don't grow as long or as huge and Gizzard Shad. I hate eating chicken gizzards so I also hate Gizzard shad. LOL A little play on words to help me remember the two different types of shad.

[Moose1am]

I agree with the need for better education of the fishing public. Well at least the 1% that just don't get it. Most all fishermen are pretty **** smart. But how do you educate the few that are in need of that education? That's the job for the rest of us to accomplish.