Some new Regs for 08....

[BASSKING]

i would love for us to have a few true trophy bass lakes in our state but theese lakes would almost have to be catch and release only or a small creel limit and good selective harvesting for thoose who do keep LM and SM. i think the most important aspect of it would be law enforcement to make sure no one is breaking the law on that body of water. there seems to be a lack of that on some bodies of water in our state now. ive seen a lot of undersize SM and LM that have been taken out of our lakes. i have never wittnessed it but have heard that some guides will fillet an illeagal fish right after it is caught and through the carcus in the lake. i had a bank fisherman get highly upset with me a T-ville a few years back. he had eight or nine 8-10 inch bass on a stringer and after telling him the size limit on them he suggested i mind my own buisness and that there were enough fish to go around in the lake.so i reported him to the 800 number.so law enforcement would be a very key aspect to making sure no one would be taking undersized fish out of the lakes.anything i could do to help that problem i am all for it. just dont really know how to go about getting it done or if the right people would even listen.

it has been said : a fish wont grow once its in a skillet.

[kc]

I am all for growing trophy bass waters but there still needs to be room for some harvest. I never clean smallmouth so "no harvest" on them anywhere would be fine by me but I do like to clean a spot or keeper sized LM here and there. There is no doubt that more restrictive size and creel limits helps maintain the fishery. Not only from harvest for the table but the from the tournament fishermen dragging around the fish to the weigh-in.

[Dave Stewart]

i would love for us to have a few true trophy bass lakes in our state but theese lakes would almost have to be catch and release only or a small creel limit and good selective harvesting for thoose who do keep LM and SM. i think the most important aspect of it would be law enforcement to make sure no one is breaking the law on that body of water. there seems to be a lack of that on some bodies of water in our state now. ive seen a lot of undersize SM and LM that have been taken out of our lakes. i have never wittnessed it but have heard that some guides will fillet an illeagal fish right after it is caught and through the carcus in the lake. i had a bank fisherman get highly upset with me a T-ville a few years back. he had eight or nine 8-10 inch bass on a stringer and after telling him the size limit on them he suggested i mind my own buisness and that there were enough fish to go around in the lake.so i reported him to the 800 number.so law enforcement would be a very key aspect to making sure no one would be taking undersized fish out of the lakes.anything i could do to help that problem i am all for it. just dont really know how to go about getting it done or if the right people would even listen.

it has been said : a fish wont grow once its in a skillet.

Since it is illegal to clean a fish while on the water I doubt any guide is going to risk his/her license by cleaning an undersize fish or any fish on the water.

[mhall]

Since it is illegal to clean a fish while on the water I doubt any guide is going to risk his/her license by cleaning an undersize fish or any fish on the water.

Dave other than that, do you have a opinion on this matter??

[Dave Stewart]

Dave other than that, do you have a opinion on this matter??

Actually I do have some opinions on this matter. First I will say that the idea of forming an organization to speak collectively to improve and protect our fisheries is a good one. That is how you get heard by the powers that be in this world. Sadly, most anglers complain about what is happening to our lakes and rivers but never organize in a collective voice to get anything accomplished. Probably, because this takes a lot of commitment, time and effort on the part of a few and money from the masses to make the organization a viable one. Basically, a lot of people like to complain but not enough want to really make the commitment to make this happen.

Secondly, any changes to regulations needs to be addressed from a scientific point of view, backed by scientific data to show that proposed changes to regulations will in fact benefit the fishery while at the same time not have a devastating impact on the economies that would be affected by changes.

I am sure there are changes that may need to be addressed on some lakes and rivers to enhance the fisheries and forming an advocacy group to do so would be a good thing as long as the aforementioned things are taken into consideration. Proposals to change regulations to make all the size and possession limits on all our waters the same so that someone does not have to take the time to verse themselves on what the regulations are for that body of water are not the type of proposals that would meet that standard. We have different regulations for different bodies of water because of the need to protect those fisheries..not for our convenience or inconveniece.

[mhall]

I also don't think all waters are the same or should be treated that way. Some lakes are probably fine the way they are while others could use some tweaking. Getting a FREE fishing handbook at any Walmart or sporting goods shop before heading out to your desired lake would not be that difficult or troublesome. You make good points Dave as to scientific study and I wonder if that was done at Laurel or was it done based on fisherman desire. Either way it has most definately had a positive impact on that fishery. Using Cumberland as an example and saying that the exact same slot limit was placed there as on Dale, what possible negative could come from that? Not trying to be a smartelic, but seriously what bad could come from it, from a economic impact???

[Dave Stewart]

The fact is that all lakes go thru up and down cycles on different species of fish sometimes and on all fish sometimes...caused by nature and man. Here at Ky/Barkley we are on an up cycle for bass but on a down cycle for younger year class Crappie which is why the limit was lowered here on Crappie this year. This is a direct result of scientific studies done by KDFWR and was enacted to protect the great Crappie fishery here. It was not enacted because someone "thought" it would be a good idea. These are the kind of changes to regulations we need. I doubt the changes that were enacted at Laurel were done without any studies and recommendations of the fisheries biologists responsible for that lake.

There is no doubt the slot limit placed on Dale Hollow has brought the Smallmouth numbers back in the right direction. This was not done because someong "thought" that it would be a good idea. It was done after studies indicated that the numbers of fish in their prime reproducing years was on the decline. I have no idea whether this is the case on Cumberland or not...it may be so and something may need to be done about it like a slot limit similiar to Dale, only our fisheries biologists can determine that.

So, what I am trying to say is that before anyone jumps up and demands changes to the fishing regulations, there needs to be some studies done to indicate that a change is needed. Now once the studies have been done, and a change is indicated as needed by the biologists that are far more qualified than you or I to make this determination, then this is when anglers as a group can assist KDFWR in putting pressure where it needs to be put (political arena) to enact these changes.

Sometimes there are special interest groups that want something changed that will have a diverse effect on a fishery just because it suits their needs. That has been the case here on Ky/Barkley for the past number of years. There is an organization here that represents resort owners and pleasure boaters (especially the big yacht type boaters) to change the annual water level drawdown schedule. KDFWR did a study on this proposed change and scientifically proved it would be detrimental to both the fish populations and water fowl populations but this group continues to lobby for this change. Some of us anglers here have fought this every year and luckily the TVA and COE have sided with the KDFWR on this matter so far or we would more than likely be looking at a drastic decline in the fisheries here.

As far as the economic impact...yes there would be some economic impact if a slot limit were to be placed on Cumberland Smallmouth. It would be an impact on those businesses that derive a good amount of their income from the tournament anglers. Like it or not, tournaments have a big impact on local economies and a slot limit tends to drive many of the bigger money tournaments (which are the big money producers to local economies) away. I am not saying the slot limit should not be enacted...I am saying that a study needs to be done to see if the lake is at a point at which the slot limit is needed to maintain a good fishery. If it is just a matter of we could have a few more big fish if we had a slot limit...then that has to be weighed against the possible economic impact to the local community.

[BASSKING]

Since it is illegal to clean a fish while on the water I doubt any guide is going to risk his/her license by cleaning an undersize fish or any fish on the water.

i have never been out with a guide so as i said i have just heard a few guys that have wittnessed that happening. i get my fish from moby d ick and king fish cause i dont like fooling with the cleaning process. the guys that told me this has happened are credible guys that dont usually BS and they tkae many guided trips on cumberland and DH. so with that said, it probably doesn't happen but my point was that if we had more enforcement on the water it would almost guarantee it wouldnt happen. sorry if i affended you dave, no harm meant.
Bassking

[Dave Stewart]

i have never been out with a guide so as i said i have just heard a few guys that have wittnessed that happening. i get my fish from moby d ick and king fish cause i dont like fooling with the cleaning process. the guys that told me this has happened are credible guys that dont usually BS and they tkae many guided trips on cumberland and DH. so with that said, it probably doesn't happen but my point was that if we had more enforcement on the water it would almost guarantee it wouldnt happen. sorry if i affended you dave, no harm meant.
Bassking

First, let me say that I am not nor was I offended. I just can't see any guide risking his/her business to break the law by cleaning a fish (short or otherwise) while on the water. If your friends are going out with guides doing that, they should first of all complain to the guide because if they let him do that they are breaking the law also if they are in the boat....and then turn that guide into the KDFWR enforcement folks. I can tell you that if I saw a guide doing that, I would be on my cell phone in a heart beat. I have seen guides cleaning trophy sized Smallmouth and Largemouth for their clients before, and it makes me ill, but they are within the law and it is their business if they do so.

Just for the record: I am a bass only, catch and release guide. It is my choice to do conduct my business this way and would personally quit guiding for bass if I had to filet them out to put a client in my boat. I have had and will have in the future, propective clients tell me they will not book with me if I will not let them keep the fish...that is their perogative...but I am not going to change...it is my business and that is the way I choose to conduct it.

[BASSKING]

thats great dave! i would do the same if i were in your shoes. we fished some tournies last year and the director wanted to keep the fish fish that were weighed and when me and my partner refused we were told to not come back. the guide my buddies used to fish with and let me mentoin this was about 15 years ago and he has since lost his liscense for other reasons and it was mostly crappie and smallmouth they were catching.

[Dave Stewart]

Glad to hear he lost his license and glad to hear you and your partner stood your ground on the keeping the tournament fish issue.

[mhall]

Oh well, I was a willing, but it sounds hopeless, I'm done, let this thread die. I do not possess the power to influence the KDFW to conduct a study to see if this is a viable option or not. Heck I can barely influence my wife to go out and eat dinner with me once and awhile, LOL.