Obama's Church???

[Col Forbin]

I don't like the idea of a Muslin born racist as president.

I think discrimination because of religion can be just as harmful as racial discrimination. Remember the holocaust??? It is statements like this this makes it clear to me that there are still a great deal of problems within our country.

According to many of the posts I have read on this board - it seems that christian americans are the only ones smart enough or worthy to hold public office. The constitution protects freedom of religion just as much as is protects agains racial discrimination.

First of all Obama is not a Muslim. However, not ALL muslims are terrorist. Also Just because he belongs to a church supporting the advancement of African Americans - does not mean he is a racist. That is like saying people that advocate for rights for people with disabilities are against all people without disabilities.

[Devils Horse]

Religious discrimination/persecustion has a lot to do with what settled our country, and I never said anything about discriminating against him. Because I don't choose to vote for him for PRESIDENT of the country doesn't mean I want him deprived of his freedom or rights in any way. Funny how you play the discrimination card when things get uncomfortable for you.

You're right, our country does have problems, but it's interpretations like yours that are the problem, not statements like mine.

I also said he was born Muslim, which he was, didn't say he was one now. Read what I wrote, not what you want to read.

It is true not ALL Muslims are terrorists, but it's also true that darned near ALL terrorists are Muslims. Rationalize that one for me.

Nice try to twist things around, but you're guilty of the same thing most Dems are, you simply cannot answer a straightforward question. Yes or No, would you vote for him if he were an ardent satanist?

[apb]

.... I don't like the idea of a Muslin born racist as president. ...

Funny how you play the discrimination card when things get uncomfortable for you.

????

.... It is true not ALL Muslims are terrorists, but it's also true that darned near ALL terrorists are Muslims. Rationalize that one for me.

IRA, they are Muslims???? How about several South American "rebel" groups, or are they not terrorists?

.... Yes or No, would you vote for him if he were an ardent satanist?

Apples and oranges. Beliefs associated with Satanism are waaaay different than the other religions mentioned. Muslim, christian, Jew, etc, are for peace and well being of fellow man. Satanism is not about helping others.

Direct answer to your question, no.

Question for you. Many repubs talk about "christian values" as being important. Didn't Jesus preach about helping out who are less fortunate than you. So why the problem of social programs that aim to help the less fortunate. And yes, I agree those can be abused. Personally, I think any society owes itself to helping out others of the society in a time of need. Now, if a person needs govt help cause they are too **** lazy to get off their butt and work, too bad for them. My suggestion for help there is to give them a map that shows the location of a van down by the river where they can stay until the learn to be productive.

Jesus also preached peace. Why is it that repubs are more likely to start wars?

Andrew

[Col Forbin]

DH - The only reason I brought up religous discrimination/prejudice is that you referred to being a muslim in a not so positive way ,as if it were a flaw. I did read what you wrote. - how else can you interpret "I do not like the idea of a muslim born racist as president." Why not just say I do not like the idea of a racist as a president - I would agree with you then. What was the point of adding "muslim born" in there if you did not consider that to be a negative aspect.

I guess it is a good thing Obama is not a satanist, so I won't have to encounter that. I don't see how we went from talking about being muslim to satan worshipers, though.

[Devils Horse]

????



IRA, they are Muslims???? How about several South American "rebel" groups, or are they not terrorists?



Apples and oranges. Beliefs associated with Satanism are waaaay different than the other religions mentioned. Muslim, christian, Jew, etc, are for peace and well being of fellow man. Satanism is not about helping others.

Direct answer to your question, no.

Question for you. Many repubs talk about "christian values" as being important. Didn't Jesus preach about helping out who are less fortunate than you. So why the problem of social programs that aim to help the less fortunate. And yes, I agree those can be abused. Personally, I think any society owes itself to helping out others of the society in a time of need. Now, if a person needs govt help cause they are too **** lazy to get off their butt and work, too bad for them. My suggestion for help there is to give them a map that shows the location of a van down by the river where they can stay until the learn to be productive.

Jesus also preached peace. Why is it that repubs are more likely to start wars?

Andrew

Okay, since we're talking apples to apples, there is no comparison of IRA or any other group to Muslim terrorists. First off the IRA is all but defunct, secondly they targeted the British specifically because of real or perceived wrongs done to their country by Britain. South American rebels are no different, they also kill to rebel against a government. Our forefathers would've been branded terrorists.

Radical Muslims kill for the sake of their religion. In their eyes if you are an infidel, you should be killed. Sorry, I ain't buying the 'a terrorist is a terrorist' argument. Nobody who really thinks about it is either.

I know nothing about Satanism, so I can't speak to what their goals are, but I'm sure satan's worshipers are as devoted to him as Christians are to God.

I have no problem helping those in need, I give more than my share to charities like most of us do. There are no more charitable people on the planet than Americans. I just don't like the government taking my money and giving to others through their inefficiently run and poorly managed programs. Programs that in general encourage dependence and discourage personal responsibility. Once again, there are those truly in need of help, and I'm all for helping them, but I question the government's ability to use my money wisely.

Go back and hit the books, Dems have started just as many wars as Repubs. As far as the current war, we didn't start it, radical Muslims who flew planes into buildings full of innocent people in the name of Allah did. We're gonna be fighting Muslim terrorists (not IRA bombers or South American Rebels) for many years to come, be it over there or on our own soil.

Those people want us dead. Do you really believe opening 'a dialogue' with them will make them stop? If so, by all means vote for BO or Hillary, it's your right as an American.

[Devils Horse]

DH - The only reason I brought up religous discrimination/prejudice is that you referred to being a muslim in a not so positive way ,as if it were a flaw. I did read what you wrote. - how else can you interpret "I do not like the idea of a muslim born racist as president." Why not just say I do not like the idea of a racist as a president - I would agree with you then. What was the point of adding "muslim born" in there if you did not consider that to be a negative aspect.

I guess it is a good thing Obama is not a satanist, so I won't have to encounter that. I don't see how we went from talking about being muslim to satan worshipers, though.

I do see it as a negative, and maybe I ain't that great a guy for it. But in my defense, I've been watching Muslims purposely target and kill totally uninvolved innocent people in cold blood my entire life, so I'm fresh out of tolerant idealism. Sorry.

I brought up satan worshipers because it was said the church BO belonged to had no bearing. I wanted to see if answers would change if hypothetically his beliefs were totally repugnant. You never did answer that one, and honestly I don't blame you.

BTW, I hope you, Andrew, and anyone else on this board know I argue with y'all but mean you no harm. My mother (voted for Hillary, god help her) always told me I'd argue with a signpost. That's as close to an olive branch as I get guys, hope it's good enough.

Sure will be glad when the ramp thaws out...

[Col Forbin]

[QUOTE=Devils Horse;319081]BTW, I hope you, Andrew, and anyone else on this board know I argue with y'all but mean you no harm. .QUOTE]

No personal offense taken. I am the same way - just because our views differ, I never mean anything on a personal level. I would rather argue with fellow fisherman, than to have a simple conversation with non-fisherman. Good weather is coming this week, and politics will be the last thing on my mind.

[DJD]

I agree with you guy's we all have opinions and it's great to see that we can discuss our views on here as adults. I don't agree with alot of what I read on here but at least it makes me think. Col, you said it as the weather gets better the mind gets to wandering about the fish catching!

[mhall]

I agree with you guy's we all have opinions and it's great to see that we can discuss our views on here as adults. I don't agree with alot of what I read on here but at least it makes me think. Col, you said it as the weather gets better the mind gets to wandering about the fish catching!

Me too guys it's nothing personal as EVERYONE has the right to their own opinion.

[apb]

....As far as the current war, we didn't start it, radical Muslims who flew planes into buildings full of innocent people in the name of Allah did.....

Wrong war. As I have said before, I have no problem with us going into Afganistan. Iraq is a completely different subject. As far as "Do you really believe opening 'a dialogue' with them will make them stop?" Yep, as long as that dialog is a cruise missle or M16. I also think it would do us good to really look into why they "hate" us rather than stick with stuff like "they hate us for our freedoms.." kind of stuff.

....BTW, I hope you, Andrew, and anyone else on this board know I argue with y'all but mean you no harm....

I don't take this stuff personally nor do I mean anything personal by what I post. Just good old fashion debate. I actually appreciate hearing other people's thoughts on these matters. Stuff that makes ya think :-)

Andrew

[riverrat12]

Me too guys it's nothing personal as EVERYONE has the right to their own opinion.

Ditto

[Devils Horse]

Wrong war. As I have said before, I have no problem with us going into Afganistan. Iraq is a completely different subject. As far as "Do you really believe opening 'a dialogue' with them will make them stop?" Yep, as long as that dialog is a cruise missle or M16. I also think it would do us good to really look into why they "hate" us rather than stick with stuff like "they hate us for our freedoms.." kind of stuff.



I don't take this stuff personally nor do I mean anything personal by what I post. Just good old fashion debate. I actually appreciate hearing other people's thoughts on these matters. Stuff that makes ya think :-)

Andrew

Right war. Same war. It's Al Queda we're fighting and they certainly aren't contained within Afghanistan. Securing that country as you mentioned before cannot be done. The geography and climate are too harsh, and the logistics too tough. The Russians couldn't do it, and unless we killed every man in the country neither could we. The Afghanis have a hard existence and they absolutely thrive on making war. They routinely took on Roosky Hind gunships with antique small arms, and from what I've read they're fierce fighters.

I believe the plan was to knock out one of the main Al Queda sponsors in Hussein (Sadam, not Barack), sow the seed of democracy in Iraq and let it take root. A lot of our soldiers have died in that effort. If the liberals take the presidency, and we pull out on the Iraqis it'll be disastrous. Iran will most likely take the country and our soldiers will have died for nothing. We've disarmed Iraq for the most part, and they won't stand a chance on their own for quite a while yet. How long I don't know, but longer than the American public has the stomach for.