Too many fees?

[MikeAxsom]

Sorry guys, but if I had the answer to all these questions, I’d be running for Governor myself. I’m not even sure how to keep our one county owned lake and park funded in these times of rising costs and shrinking dollars. But, you guys need to understand that some of what you seem think is inaccurate, and some of it is pretty much right on target.

Tyme2fish, you do happen to be wrong about the fishing license fee going into the general fund. Fortunately those along with all the other hunting fishing and trapping license fees are placed in the fish & wildlife fund, as required by Indiana Code IC 14-22-12-15.

A for some of the boating fees, the LARE (Lake and River Enhancement) fund is where those added registration fees are going. LARE is a function of IDNR, and is an office in the Division of Fish & Wildlife. I don’t have an answer for your situation but I do happen to know that those funds are allowing some large scale water resource improvements and protection that would probably not be possible otherwise. That has gone on for years and most managed water bodies have seen some benefit. The increases enacted in 2003 provide funds for sediment removal, and for control of exotic and invasive species. A third of the new money is used for increased law enforcement, including making funds available to county sheriff departments to do boating enforcement. I know that Daviess County has become heavily involved in this on West Boggs; and the effect is pretty dramatic. So, I don’t know if the source of funding is fair or too high or too low; but I’m pretty sure it is not being wasted.

It is not the case that such things as those gas lights and walking trails are being built with fishing license and boating fee money. I won’t argue that some of that other money might be better spent on some needed conservation issues, but it really is other money.

What you are really seeing is the cost of management going up as a result of the times we live in. I hear similar arguments from boaters, campers and other visitors at West Boggs, but I know exactly where every dime of that money is going and where it comes from. We pay the same higher prices everyone else does for water, sewer service, electricity, gasoline, equipment, labor, etc., etc. Last year we paid some $80,000 for utilities alone. Our liability insurance costs over $15,000. Labor takes over $200,000, even though we are running a smaller staff. And not a cent of any of that comes from taxes, license fees or from state contributions. The only source for that revenue is from the visitors themselves. It is always a tightrope to keep enough funds coming in to pay all those bills, and still provide services at a price that people will pay. And I assure you, we don’t have a gaslight in sight, except for the Coleman lanterns in camp.

[wkerber]

Slipbobber,
I don't know that you want to Ditch Mitch. He was the only one that came up with creative ways to restore your state budget without taking all of it out of your pockets. Remember, Indiana use to have almost a $2 billion dollar budget surplus, but the Dems couldn't stand that money sitting there so they came up with a formula to parse it out to the districts in the state. I believe that if you research what it all went to, you'd want to slap someone. Mostly pet projects.

[slipbobber]

Slipbobber,
I don't know that you want to Ditch Mitch. He was the only one that came up with creative ways to restore your state budget without taking all of it out of your pockets. Remember, Indiana use to have almost a $2 billion dollar budget surplus, but the Dems couldn't stand that money sitting there so they came up with a formula to parse it out to the districts in the state. I believe that if you research what it all went to, you'd want to slap someone. Mostly pet projects.

Evan Bayh was one of the best govenors we had since I been alive and he was a democrat.The only way he got us out of the hole was by selling the toll road up North here.Now the foreign country that bought it is gonna double the fee to drive on it unless you buy the I-Pass.I-Pass here I come.

[PL]

Evan Bayh was one of the best govenors we had since I been alive and he was a democrat.The only way he got us out of the hole was by selling the toll road up North here.Now the foreign country that bought it is gonna double the fee to drive on it unless you buy the I-Pass.I-Pass here I come.

Your man mitch sold the toll roads not bayh. I don't like all those taxes/fees anymore than ya'll do but that isn't gonna make me stay home and not go to our camps at patoka. Taxes/fees are the way of life anymore cause if ya wanna play ya gotta pay. Besides I'll bet most of you waste enought money all year long to pay them anyway. Go to the lake/river everytime you can while your living cause when your dead your dead.

Larry

[TR21Bassin]

I'll continue to go but it will be in Kentucky where they don't nickel and dime me to death.

Charlie

[panfish]

I think what has gotten out of hand is the price of boats. I have been shopping for a nice deck boat that I can use to striper fish. I did finally cut a deal on one after about 2 months of shopping. I have to drive 5 hrs each way to get it. The price of these things are crazy!!!!!!!!

[Tyme2fish]

Indiana Lake Permit $20.00
Entrance Pass $36.00

I'm not paying that just to fish Patoka once or twice a year.

[PL]

Indiana Lake Permit $20.00
Entrance Pass $36.00

I'm not paying that just to fish Patoka once or twice a year.

Since we're up there every weekend at our camps starting in another week running to nov.1.... I don't have a problem with the fees. I go through there friday night to fish and twice sat and sunday. I fish first then take the pontoon out early in the afternoon. Besides if you get there early enought no one is at the gate. I've never had any thing in my truck bothered at any of the ramps in the park or the walls ramp which I go to every now and then. I don't like the fees anymore than the next person but since I love going up there it's a small price to pay for all the enjoyment my family/friends and myself get. Patoka is a beautifull lake with clean water and great fishing and we've met alot of great people there at the camp and on the lake. From what I've seen the restrooms are kept pretty clean and you've got a great boat dock at the south ramps thanks to the bass guys and the state going in together. Plenty of room to park and plenty of water to roam around on. The fews dollars it costs is nothing for all the happiness it brings to us. After we come off the water and head back to the camp she usually fixes dinner while I build a fire outside. Pot the top on a cold one or two and sit back and relax till dinner. When the kids and grandkids are up there it's even a better time watching them all especially the little ones having a ball.


Yeah....I like it alot up there and I can't wait to get back and start a new year.

[heatman]

Indiana Lake Permit $20.00
Entrance Pass $36.00

I'm not paying that just to fish Patoka once or twice a year.

The only time you have to pay the entrance fee is if you use the ramps inside the state park areas with camping etc. Just use a different ramp.

I can't believe people that think these fees are to high. The closest lake to me is Morse which is not state owned and it will cost you $27 to launch on the weekend. I fully think the people using the lakes should have to pay a fee. I have 3 brothers and I'm the only one with a boat. Why should they have to pay to fund these facilities?

I spend one week each year in Michigan snowmobiling and you have to purchase a trail permit to ride and it's the same price as our annual boat permit.

And just how far do you think that $20 you spend goes to improve these places? I have no idea how many boat owner there are in Indiana but lets just throw 10,000 out there. That's $200,000. So how many boat ramps could be built for that and how many fish could be stocked in all the lakes? I'm sure there are more boat owners than that but that kind of gives you and idea how little that money adds up to.

[Moose1am]

And just how far do you think that $20 you spend goes to improve these places? I have no idea how many boat owner there are in Indiana but lets just throw 10,000 out there. That's $200,000. So how many boat ramps could be built for that and how many fish could be stocked in all the lakes? I'm sure there are more boat owners than that but that kind of gives you and idea how little that money adds up to.

OK but who actually built the Ramps at Patoka Lake. Who owns Patoka Lake? The State of IN does not own the lake or the ramps. The Lake is owned by the Corp of Engineers ... Right? Or does the State Own the lake and the Surrounding Buffer Area around the high water line?

I always thought that the Corps Built the Ramps using Federal Money

It's not the 20 Dollar fee so much as all the fees added together. It's not prohibitive but it's costly. It costs more to boat and fish at Patoka Lake now than when it opened. But everything costs more now days. The only thing that is not going up is WAGES! They are standing still while the price of Gas and all other goods rises. That's like someone reaching into my pocket and taking about 50% of the money in my wallet out. Leaving me broke !

The driving to the lake and back is what's making everyone lose sleep.
Now if you can drive there for the entire weekend that's nice. But if you had to drive up and back on Friday and again on Saturday and then again on Sunday it would get rather expensive.

I am lucky in that it only costs me about $35 to drive 300 miles. But I am driving a fuel efficient small pickup truck. It's only 4 cylinders yet it will go over 90 mph if the wheels don't shake too much and fall off. It's got over 170.000 miles on it right now and I hope it lasts me another 100,000 miles.

I'd buy this truck all over again if I could. I'd put a bench seat up front instead of bucket sport seats.

I'll bet that in the next ten years you will be seeing a lot more fuel efficient vehicles on the highways in America. You will see hybrid, all electric and hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicles too.

And as for the 20 lake permit that's required at Patoka... I think that's a more fair way to pay for the lakes use. In the past people who owned yachts and big house boats only paid $5 to launch their boats one time. They left the boats on the lake at the Marina. The Mariana made money on mooring these boats but not the IDNR. And if they launched their big boat from outside the Newton Stewart area or early in the morning they didn't even have to pay the $5 launch fee.

Now any boat on the lake has to show the $20 lake permit sticker on their boat or be subject to a fine. So all these big boats have to pay the $20 where before they may have not paid anything to the IDNR. I am sure that they paid out plenty to the Marinas to keep their boats there. But that was money given to a Private development not the State IDNR.

People have the right to bitch about the price of goods and services. It's called Haggling. If we don't bitch they may raise the prices even higher.

The main thing that prevents the Saudis from lowering oil production if the fear that the USA or China or Russia may just invade them SOB and take their stupid oil. I mean we already did that to Iraq. If there was more oil being pumped and sent out into the world's markets the price of oil would drop. The OPEC guys are raping everyone right now.

[Tyme2fish]

"I fully think the people using the lakes should have to pay a fee. I have 3 brothers and I'm the only one with a boat. Why should they have to pay to fund these facilities?" QUOTE


My children are all graduated from school now. So does that mean I shouldn't pay taxes for school needs anymore. I'm not using the service am I?

My house has never caught on fire ,but I pay taxes for fire and police protection. Why should I pay if don't use them?

The analogy of people only paying for the service they use is not valid. The government is taxing and feeing us to death.

Add it all up and it's quite a sum to just be able to put my boat on Patoka Lake.

[heatman]

"I fully think the people using the lakes should have to pay a fee. I have 3 brothers and I'm the only one with a boat. Why should they have to pay to fund these facilities?" QUOTE


My children are all graduated from school now. So does that mean I shouldn't pay taxes for school needs anymore. I'm not using the service am I?

My house has never caught on fire ,but I pay taxes for fire and police protection. Why should I pay if don't use them?

The analogy of people only paying for the service they use is not valid. The government is taxing and feeing us to death.

Add it all up and it's quite a sum to just be able to put my boat on Patoka Lake.

Sorry but your analogy is wrong.

You pay taxes for schools just like I do even though I don't have kids.... why? Because someone else did the same thing when you were going to school. Just like I'm paying into social security now. To fund those that are collecting it now. Same as others will be doing for me when I retire.

You pay for fire and police protection incase they are ever needed.

Boating/ fishing is a Hobby... I don't believe the others example you used would be considered the same.

I do believe we are overtaxed but I don't see boating and fishing fees to be an issue. When property taxes equals 2 mortage payments , now that's a problem.