Reverand Wright/obama

[MsgMills]

I'd guess Mr. Wright to be pretty far down the trail, prolly lived through some tough times and racial discrimination. I understand what you're saying. Fact is though, he and many like him who preach hate are a huge part of the problem. They have large followings while people who try to help black Americans instead of teaching them they're victims are ignored. White people cannot fix black America's problems, and long as their self appointed leaders are the likes of Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton, I doubt anyone else can either.

A 60 per cent fatherless rate, and their demographic comprising 30 per cent of the population, but committing 70 per cent of the crimes are among some serious issues that need to be addressed. Long as black youth considers thuggery cool and educated upwardly mobile African Americans Uncle Toms, the prognosis isn't good.

Black people need to somehow get past the past, they are not oppressed by whites anymore. There's ample opportunity for minorities in today's society and workplace despite what the race card dealers or guilty condescending whites say. It's time to lose the chip on your collective shoulders and take advantage of the opportunities in this country instead of making excuses.

Man if everyone in the world read your post DH, I believe their eyes would finally be opened up to the real problems in this world. Also I see that you do as I do and address Black people who live in the US, as Black Americans. They are not African Americans, unless they were born in Africa and moved to America. If your born in America, then your a plain American and nothing more and nothing less.....

[mhall]

O.K. I'm writing Jim, aka Devil's Horse in the race. I'd vote for him over any we presently have running. Your post on thuggery being cool and the like is SPOT ON. If anybody on here denies it your head is waaaay down in the sand. It's not my fault when someone chooses a life of drugs, no job and killing to survive. Me and mine did not cause that and the dang Government didn't either. GET A **** JOB AND QUIT BEING A GANGSTA PUNK. And I don't care if you are green this still applies, I'M DONE WITH THAT.

[jcb]

It's not my fault when someone chooses a life of drugs, no job and killing to survive.

Me and mine did not cause that and the dang Government didn't either.

mhall,

I don't remember anyone saying you and yours were to blame for anything, so I'm not sure why you're so loudly proclaiming your innocence. Are you trying to say that because you're not a racist, racism doesn't exist in this country? If that's the case, we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

I think we agree on more than you think, though.

If you read my post to mean we should absolve anyone of their personal responsibility, you need to read it again. There is a big difference between understanding what got us to this point and absolving people of their responsibility to be productive members of society. Government has always been involved in social engineering, and LBJ's Great Society had noble goals but ended up rewarding poor citizenship and bad family practices.

All I said was there are factors--like discrimination and the government's welfare state--that have contributed to the situation we have now. It's those who don't understand *that* who have their heads in the sand. The only way to solve a problem is to understand the factors that caused it.

The biggest problem is the breakdown of the family. That's where it all starts.

[Devils Horse]

Hey Mark, you need to quit holding it in man. Every now and then just say how you really feel. I'll pencil you in for governor of Green River if you'll vote me in for mayor of Barren.

JCB, I'm sorry I just don't see the discrimination you mention. The opportunities are there for anyone willing to take them.

Far as getting stopped driving while black, like it or not there's some reasons behind that. A disproportional number of crimes are committed by young black males. Not politically correct and you won't hear it on the news, but true nonetheless. It's young black males who complain of getting stopped for DWB right? I'd say the overwhelming number of Cops operate on suspicion not hate, and it does make a certain amount of sense to stop the most likely suspects. How many middle aged people, or females complain of being stopped because they're black?

As to crossing to the other side of the street, it totally depends on the situation. In a normal setting with people all around, you ain't gonna make me believe anyone crosses over out of hate. Just doesn't happen. They can dish out all the propaganda and guilt trips they want and some of us are still smart enough to recognize BS when we hear it. Now, on a more deserted street would people cross over? Many would yeah, and once again probably only if it's one or more young black males. Is it because they hate somebody? Very doubtful. They feel threatened because a significant percentage of young black males are violent and dangerous thugs. It's that simple, sugar coat it any way you want. The news media and Rainbow Coalition can spout off till their blue in the face, but reality is reality.

I'll speak from personal experience. I've never in my life crossed the street to avoid anybody when I was alone. Now, if I have my wife and/or daughter with me that's a different story. I might avoid either whites or blacks, it depends on the situation. I'll do what I feel is best to ensure their safety, if it offends anyone, tough shixt.

[jcb]

Far as getting stopped driving while black, like it or not there's some reasons behind that. A disproportional number of crimes are committed by young black males. Not politically correct and you won't hear it on the news, but true nonetheless.

DH, trying to understand fully your statement here.

Yes or no: a policeman has probable cause to pull someone over because they are black?

[Devils Horse]

DH, trying to understand fully your statement here.

Yes or no: a policeman has probable cause to pull someone over because they are black?

No. They don't have a probable cause to pull someone over only because they're black. On the other hand, depending on the situation they do have a probable cause to pull someone over because they fit the profile of a demographic who commits 7 of 10 crimes.

The point you chose to ignore was you never hear black females of any age, middle aged and older black males complaining of DWB stops. The reason you don't is they're not the ones most apt to be criminals and the police know that.

I gave you my answer, so could you answer a couple for me?

If you were a policeman would you ever NOT pull someone over because they were black?

You're a policeman in an area where a mugging has been reported and you see 4 young people driving away, a black female, a white female, a black male, and a white male. Which one do you pull over and why? Be honest now.

[jcb]

No. They don't have a probable cause to pull someone over only because they're black. On the other hand, depending on the situation they do have a probable cause to pull someone over because they fit the profile of a demographic who commits 7 of 10 crimes.

"Driving while black" means pulling someone over without probably cause, only the fact that they are black. It's a documented phenomenon. That's what I cited in the original post.

I gave you my answer, so could you answer a couple for me?

If you were a policeman would you ever NOT pull someone over because they were black?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

You're a policeman in an area where a mugging has been reported and you see 4 young people driving away, a black female, a white female, a black male, and a white male. Which one do you pull over and why? Be honest now.

All other things being equal, the black male for the very statistical reasons you mentioned. This sort of police work has been upheld time and time again in the courts and I think it's fine.

DH, I never said police shouldn't exercise judgment and common sense; I said it was wrong to pull someone over without probable cause, only because they were black. Intentional or not, your previous post seemed to condone pulling blacks over only because of the statistical prevalence of black crime. That's unconstitutional.

[DJD]

Jcb,
What's your feeling on racial profiling? Just curious. I feel it's necessary for law enforcement both locally and nationally. I know it's not poltically correct but I'm not running for office.

[jcb]

That's essentially what we're talking about.

Like I said in the hypothetical DH presented, I have no problem with policemen taking into account their most likely demographic when they are investigating a crime.

But once we say it's OK to abandon the Constitutional protections of the Fourth Amendment because someone fits a certain description, we're no better than the criminals we're trying to catch.

I'm all for getting the bad guys--let's just do it within the Constitution.

Similar debate going on right now re:terrorism and wiretapping...

[Devils Horse]

"Driving while black" means pulling someone over without probably cause, only the fact that they are black. It's a documented phenomenon. That's what I cited in the original post.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Who defined and documented DWB? Guess it's one of today's hip hop euphemisms I'm too square to pick up on.

You try to get me to don the racist dunce cap, I restate my points in a clearer fashion, then you cry straw man when the tables are turned.?.? Tsk tsk.

[/QUOTE]
All other things being equal, the black male for the very statistical reasons you mentioned. This sort of police work has been upheld time and time again in the courts and I think it's fine.

DH, I never said police shouldn't exercise judgment and common sense; I said it was wrong to pull someone over without probable cause, only because they were black. Intentional or not, your previous post seemed to condone pulling blacks over only because of the statistical prevalence of black crime. That's unconstitutional.[/QUOTE]

In light of your definition of DWB, I suppose I can see how you arrived at the conclusion I condoned racism. I do fail to see how you missed my point in the very next sentence, but so be it.

You point out it's against the constitution to pull someone over based on the statistical prevalence of black crime, yet say you'd do that very thing if you were a cop. You're killing me here JCB.

The 'cross the street' and 'DWB' examples keep getting regurgitated as prime examples of discrimination in America, and they just don't wash.

Most people of any color would cross over to avoid a young black guy (prolly a man of any other color too) on a deserted street at midnight. That's common sense and self preservation, not hatred. Dang, are we totally blinded by guilt?

I still say racial discrimination is not much of problem for black people today. In fact the most virulent racial hatred apparently exists in the black churches.

[jcb]

You point out it's against the constitution to pull someone over based on the statistical prevalence of black crime, yet say you'd do that very thing if you were a cop. You're killing me here JCB.

DH, if you can't (or won't?) see the difference between my hypothetical situation--no crime has been committed, and pulling someone over just for being black--and yours, when a crime has been committed, and a police officer has to make a split second choice who to pursue, then the odds of carrying on this discussion any farther are pretty slim.

The same is true if you can convince yourself that the problem with racism in America is black racists.

[Devils Horse]

DH, if you can't (or won't?) see the difference between my hypothetical situation--no crime has been committed, and pulling someone over just for being black--and yours, when a crime has been committed, and a police officer has to make a split second choice who to pursue, then the odds of carrying on this discussion any farther are pretty slim.

The same is true if you can convince yourself that the problem with racism in America is black racists.

Of course I see the difference, I'm the one who pointed it out to begin with. You try to pin me, I try to pin you, that's part of the fun. How much fun it is depends on how many of your conclusions I dismantle before you take your bat and glove and leave the field.

Don't need to convince myself of anything, facts are facts. I'm not the one who's bought into the dire white racist situation the politicians and antis have taught us we have. Were I willing to bother, I could dig up two instances of black racism for every one of white racism you could show me in today's (not 20 years ago) society. The examples you've come up with so far really aren't that impressive.

Be sure and vote for BO, he'll unite America and fix our supposed racial problems, after all he has 20 years of spiritual counseling to draw on.