.45 cents per Gallon

[DJD]

Did you see that on the news? Saudi Arabia pays that for a gallon of regular gas! Actually, now that I think of it maybe it was per liter? Either way I never thought about what the Saudi's pay. Man running to those far away lakes would be a no brainer with those prices!

[Grumpy]

That is the price they pay for gasoline from oil that is found within their own boundries, refined in their own refineries and sold by thier own gas companies. I wonder what Americans would be paying if we were to get rid of all the tree huggers and do the same thing!!!

Grumpy

[Moose1am]

Gumby:
What's your problem with Conservationists? Are you one of those typical smoke stack suckers that hates the tree huggers. You are hanging out with the wrong crowd.

By buying a car that gets better gas mileage it would decrease the demand and bring the price of Oil down. Attacking the smart conservationist will do nothing to bring the price of gasoline down.

In fact it would increase the usage of gasoline and further increase the price as the supply lessened as the demand rose.

Attacking the messenger won't cure the problems.

So please get a grip and stop attacking the people who will help this country learn to stop driving those big gas guzzling SUV and start to buy more Hybrid and in the future fuel cell powered vehicles.

Our national security is at stake.

You silly if you believe that we can drill out way out of this mess. We have already drilled out most of the easily obtainable oil and now we are faced with the fact that we have used up almost all the oil.

We have passed the "tipping point".

The price of oil will continue to rise as long as OPEC set the price by controlling the supply.

And the last I heard the leaders of OPEC are not tree huggers. There are no trees left in Saudi Arabia. It's a desert.

That is the price they pay for gasoline from oil that is found within their own boundaries, refined in their own refineries and sold by thier own gas companies. I wonder what Americans would be paying if we were to get rid of all the tree huggers and do the same thing!!!

Grumpy

[Grumpy]

Moose, you didn't read nor even try to understand what I wrote. You are so wrapped up in your Democrat politics that you can't see anything else. I would be willing to bet that you even believe Al Gore about Global Warming in spite of the fact that the vast majority of scientists agree that "man made global warming" is a myth and a hoax.

Grumpy

[VMAXX]

+1 on the tree hugger haters,
Sorry Moose but I lump the tree huggers right in their with the Peta people

[MsgMills]

+2 against all Tree Huggers and PETA People....

[DJD]

Yep I'm in I'll third that nomination! Especially the peater' people.

[apb]

Personally, I like trees. My favorite plugs are made from wood. If it weren't for trees, my tackle box would be a whole lot lighter. Besides, I know of a few tree areas where bass hang out. Not sure what is wrong with People Eating Tasty Animals either. Kind of like a little red meat from time to time. Its the green fuzzy stuff that I'm not too wild about.

Grumpy, got a link or reference for the vast majority of scientists agreeing that man made global warming is a hoax?

Andrew

[Grumpy]

apb, I am not a scientist but I am well read and have an excellent memory for what I read. Long before there was mention of ozone holes and the rest of the "sky is falling" frenzy, I was able to figure out that this earth is in the beginning stages of another Ice Age. In the early stage of an Ice Age, the earth starts to warm up and the polar caps melt. In another 25,000 to 30,000 years we are going to be in the full blown Ice Age.

Anyhow, to answer you question about links, except for one that I just saw yesterday, most the the connections are in my memory. I have read a great many newspaper, magazine and on line articles that bebunk the "man made global warming" hoax but you they are not easy to find and are few and far between because the Demograt controlled major media outlets all tout the Al Gore line and only report anything to the contrary on the back pages or in very short clips.

Here is a link to a recent column about scientific opinions:

http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/al_gore_global_warming/2008/05/19/97307.html


Grumpy

[Moose1am]

Gumby:
You are so wrong and must be reading the wrong articles. Mostly I think you are filtering your reading material and only including material approved by Rush Limbaugh and EXXON.

Expand your reading materials to include some well known Scientific Magazines that are not controlled by politicians.

Here is what bothers me. We have Politicians like **** Cheney going around the federal government and telling Scientist to not talk about Global Warming. He and others like him are trying to muzzle the real scientist who are trying to tell the truth.

Then we also have GOP controlled Fox Noise going around and blatantly lying about the truth on global warming.

There is no conspiracy by the Major News Outlets to favor the Democrats as all those outlets are owned by multimillionaires not democrats.

Fox is run by the X GOP chairman and is about the only cable network that leaning to the right. The rest of the media out lets are basically neutral and posting the truth.

All you have to do grumpy is get up in an airplane and fly over the North Pole or the South Pole this summer and see the lack of ice. It's the easiest way to prove that the earth is warming up and the result is the melting of the polar ice caps.

The record in the ice shows that the amount of CO2 has been building up in the ice cores. And our NASA and NOAA are both saying that the earth is warming up.

Even Bush and McCain have said that global warming it really happening.

Now what to do about it. Lets start the debate there. I am not sure but I fear that you have an agenda or need to expand your reading list.

It's pretty easy to see that we are burning more and more coal every decade over the last 200 years. We went from digging coal by hand to digging coal with powerful mining machines that run 24/7.

They use to haul coal by horse and cart and today we have Giant Trucks with Wheels 12 ft tall that hold 65 tons of coal in one truck.

And we have so many power plants now just in the Midwest area that the air is so polluted from burning coal that it's raining sulfuric acid mist.

I think that the people at the National Weather Service know a thing or two about the weather.

The bottom line is that all the real scientist are telling us that that Global Warming is real.

The reason why some people are saying what you say is to try to fool the people into believing a falsehood.

Now having studied a little bit about Geology and the past Ice Ages I can assure you that back 10,000 years ago we didn't have many Homosapiens running around on this planet.

And who knows if mankind will even be around in another 30,000 years.

What the real experts have been telling us is that if we don't start to address this problem of Global Warming sooner rather than later we could all be in trouble

Now I'll listen to the scientists that study this planet for a living and I tend to Ignore what the Stupid Political talking heads on Fox Noise have to say.

Fox is not a legitimate news outlets... It's the political setup child of the GOP and has been since it's inception. The only thing good on Fox Noise is Greta and shes a LAWYER not a journalist. The only thing you need on your resume to get on Fox Noise is to be a long legged blond with blue eyes and skinny as Ann Counter. Sorry but that's the truth. I won't go into the reason why Fox is allowed to even broadcast but suffice it to say that 30 years ago they would have not been allowed to broadcast their cra( on the airwaves. It would have been against the law that was on the book since the 1930's.

BTW: I am a Scientist... I use to wonder if the warming was caused by the sun or man kind. Now I know it's both. But we are adding to the heating with our rapid burning of fossil fuels. There is not denying that we are the cause and the solution to present global warming.

As long as we continue to burn oil, coal and other carbon based products at the current rates we will have to worry about Global Warming. It's that simple

apb, I am not a scientist but I am well read and have an excellent memory for what I read. Long before there was mention of ozone holes and the rest of the "sky is falling" frenzy, I was able to figure out that this earth is in the beginning stages of another Ice Age. In the early stage of an Ice Age, the earth starts to warm up and the polar caps melt. In another 25,000 to 30,000 years we are going to be in the full blown Ice Age.

Anyhow, to answer you question about links, except for one that I just saw yesterday, most the the connections are in my memory. I have read a great many newspaper, magazine and on line articles that debunk the "man made global warming" hoax but you they are not easy to find and are few and far between because the Democrat controlled major media outlets all tout the Al Gore line and only report anything to the contrary on the back pages or in very short clips.

Here is a link to a recent column about scientific opinions:

http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/al_gore_global_warming/2008/05/19/97307.html


Grumpy

[thebassman30]

Blaaaaaahhhuuuuuuuppppchuck .....vomit! I was reading until you started mentioning political names. Most politicians are so self consumed that they can't get out of the way of people who want to help. It's all about control and power with them.

Oil
Economic basics start with supply and demand. We need to tap our reserves in Alaska...with care...the environment must be protected. We also need to upgrade our existing refineries to make them more efficient and cleaner.

On a micro level, we need to be conserving gas. Whatever that takes....hydro convertions, fuel cells, whatever....growing our fuel is not the answer. That's where good old American ingenuity comes in.....we can do it! I want to pay less that 5¢ a mile to tow my boat with a V8. Can someone hook a brother up?

One final note....If lottery tickets are a tax on the mathematically challenged, then what/whom are offset credits taxing? Mentally challenged? Mentally disturbed? What did we do before the ACLU, lobbyists and scientologists? How much does a volcanic eruption effect our atmospher in comparison with our impact? I wonder if China, Russia or Mexico have offset credits? hmmmm?

Grab your pipe and hippy lettuce and get to work on that will ya...lol.

[Moose1am]

Supply and demand have set the price of goods ever since the first cities were developed.

But, right now we have a situation similar to the De Beers Diamond Company. We have a few countries that have a MONOPOLY on one item, OIL. Now in the USA monopolies are against the law. OPEC is a Oil monopoly just like De Beers was a monopoly on diamonds. Today others can make diamonds and they also found diamonds in Canada. So the De Beers diamond monopoly is broken somewhat these days.

OPEC artificially makes oil scarce and manipulates the supply to raise the price of this commodity. If OPEC would open the pumps and put more Oil into the market the price of oil would come down. But, if we are really running out of oil that's a totally different story. We were told thirty years ago that oil was going to run out. We were warned that the price of oil would skyrocket when we reached the "tipping point". The tipping point is the point in time where we have used 1/2 or more of all the known oil reserves. The last amount of oil is harder to get out of the ground and it's going to cost a fortune. This is what the X perts have been saying to us for the last 30 years. Now if that point in time is really here then we are all in big trouble right now. We have not heeded the warming. In fact we have built more SUV than before in the past 5 years. Instead of conserving we have ramped up our consumption. A few people have tried to conserve and have purchased a small cars and such but the vast majority of Americans are still driving big V8's and that's not conserving.

On the news last night they were talking about the prices of large and small vehicles. Smaller more fuel efficient vehicles are costing more these days and it's hard to see the big old gas guzzling SUV.

OK lets say that you drill in all the areas of the USA that have not been explored first. And we can save ANWAR ,the wildlife sanctuary for later.

I was glad that you said "Carefully". Not many are thoughtful enough to even say something like that. In fact if the Oil companies have been drilling carefully all along they could probably drill anywhere they wanted today. But their track record is not the best. Even if we drilled and found some oil in ANWAR it would take ten years to get it out of the ground and it would not last very long. It would barely make a dent in our our supply. That's the economics of trying to drill in ANWAR.

Our best best is Conservation. In fact with a increase in the amount of mileage that new cars get we could save more oil than we could drill in ANWAR for the next 50 years (if there was oil there in the first place which we really don't know) This ,conservation, is being forced on us today through the higher gasoline prices.

Conservation is our quickest and least expensive option.

Making more fuel efficient vehicles that get 40 to 50 mpg would save us billions of gallons of oil in the long run and send an important message to OPEC. I just read where Honda (Japanese Firm) is coming out next year with a new hybrid.

Another Option that the USA looked at back in the Late 1970's was Synfuel Plants. These plants take Coal and extract hydrocarbons from the coal to make high grade synthetic coal. They could be made and the pollution controlled and give us an option to OPEC oil. When the USA looked into this technology the Saudis blinked and they dropped the price of OIL and opened up the taps back in the 1970's after the OPEC oil embargo. Most of you guys that are older will remember having to wait in line to get gasoline. Basically gasoline was being rationed.


I personally hope to see us go with the Fuel Cell Powered Cars that run on Hydrogen. They can be built powerful and fast and stylish. Right now major countries are running their submarines using Fuel Cell Power. We have plenty of water on Earth. And with sunlight being used to make electricity we can spit the water atom into and get Hydrogen gas and Oxygen. The fuel cell gets it power by combining Oxygen and Hydrogen back together which gives energy and water as the end result. There is no pollution what so ever.

This is what's needed .

Dream on if you think you can continue to drive that V8 and pull that Big boat when gas prices hit $7.00/gallon.

I thought that they were just barking into the wind when the talking heads on TV said three months ago that we would have $4 gal gas by Memorial Day but yesterday they put the price up on the sign and it reads $3.999/gallon. Folks 4 dollar per gallon gas is here now. And the rate of increase is INCREASING.


[QUOTE=thebassman30;327539]