How can any republican

[PL]

say they support the troops but oppose the new GI bill like mcflipflop does?

Did Ya'll see where the senate bi-partisan yesterday report confirmed what most of us that have common sense already knew that bush and his bunch lied their rear ends off about the so-called intel before invading iraq?

Everyone involved in that scam needs to be in prison or executed ASAP.

I'm off to the camp at Patoka to fish all weekend...

Ya'll have a good weekend

Larry

[MsgMills]

PL, if you only knew the real truth on the matter of the WMD....... I don't know the exact truth either. But I'm smart enough to know that Mr. Bush and the people in Congress at the time prior to the Iraq invasion were supplied with everything available that said Hussein had WMD......I too if Commander in Chief would have sent the troops to war over the Intel that was available at the time...... Got to remember there were over 3, 500 dead peoples families waiting on some pay back as well from the Twin Towers...Did you forget so fast about the 9/11 attacks on American soil......

[stratosjoe]

Sarge, Remind me again how they were involved with 9/11. I thought I read somewhere that turned out to be an untruth (politicoeze for lie)

[Moose1am]

MSGMills Said::
Got to remember there were over 3, 500 dead peoples families waiting on some pay back as well from the Twin Towers...Did you forget so fast about the 9/11 attacks on American soil......
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My reply to MSGMills:
Iraq didn't attack the USA or the Twin Towers. Where do you come off thinking that they did?

Saudi Arabia contributed 15 out of the 19 hijackers. If we were to use your logic we should have attacked Saudi Arabia not Iraq.

Cheney/Bush/Rummy did much to insinuate that Iraq was involved in 911 and there are still people who believe that it true.

Just as Bush/Cheney/Rummy used words like Mushroom Clouds to scare the American Public they cherry picked the Intel and go the results that they wanted.... WAR with Iraq.

Again: It was Al Queda in Afghanistan that planned and carried out the 911 attack on the world trade center twin towers. It was not Saddam or Iraq.

I am still amazed at how many people fell for this Propaganda.

Everyone knew that Bush cherry picked the Intel or made up Intel to get the war started. Bush lied to Congress and they fell for his lies too.

Now we have spent 4 trillion dollars and lost many more thousands of us men and women in this stupid war over oil.

[Devils Horse]

Okay President Bush and co are criminals and liars right?

Eventhough the war with Al Queda is happening in Iraq instead of on American soil, we never should've been there right?

One quick note. In case you forgot, Afghanistan was the first place we hit.

But nevermind all that, let's hear your plan. Vote in the most liberal presidential candidate in history? Leave Iraq immediately?

Then do what? Establish meaningful dialogue with those 'moderate' folks in Iran and wait for the next attack?

Explain exactly what we should do about a region where a lot of people want us dead, and will go to any extreme to accomplish their goal. You've already told us what the president's doing wrong, so save the criticism and just tell us what we should be doing.

Maybe you can also help me understand why this is a just a "stupid war over oil" while you're at it. Middle eastern oil comes to us mainly from the Saudis. If Mr. Bush is such a crook and it's all about oil, why haven't we just taken control of Iraq's oil?

[DJD]

PL and Moose,
So what's the answer? How do you guys see getting the U.S. out of this war? If the war was over oil why are we paying these huge prices? It's easy to have the luxury of years of information and time to reflect and disect the decisions of the United States President and countless politicians but what do we do now? What action would you have approved of after the 911 attacks? Just curious...

[Moose1am]

PL and Moose,
So what's the answer? How do you guys see getting the U.S. out of this war? If the war was over oil why are we paying these huge prices? It's easy to have the luxury of years of information and time to reflect and dissect the decisions of the United States President and countless politicians but what do we do now? What action would you have approved of after the 911 attacks? Just curious...

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OK I answer the questions.

After 911 I would have attacked Afghanistan and invaded parts of Pakistan with or without their approval. Bush said that anyone that harbored the 911 terrorist planner was with the terrorist and not our friend.

Well he said that but would not sent troops into Afghanistan.

We need to wipe out the Taliban and destroy the poppy fields while we are at it. We should render that land growing poppy infertile and keep it that way. Poppy and heroin production is being used as a weapon against our kids this country and should be wiped out totally. By any means possible

I would not have invaded Iraq. We have Saddam Contained and we should have never let him get permission to fly helicopters over Southern Iraq after the first gulf war over Kuwait.

It's for certain that we went to war with Iraq over their oil. I mean that's so obvious to me. There are other countries that are far more dangerous to the USA that Iraq. North Korea for one which now has nukes but no oil.

As for why the price of oil is so high after we invaded Iraq. Well there are many reasons I can think of. Cheney is the main reason. How much money has his old company and friends taken from the US Tax Payers. We have spent 4 trillion dollars on this war so far. People working for bush were fired when they projected the cost of the war in Iraq to be more than a few tens of million dollars.

I don't know who's getting the money from the sale of oil in Iraq. If the Iraqi Government is getting that money they why do we have to pay for this war with our tax money? I remember when Cheney said that the Iraqi Oil would fun the war in Iraq. Well that's obviously not happening as Cheney/Bush keep coming back to Congress every few months asking for another 200 billion dollars to keep the war funded.

Someone has to be getting money for the oil coming out of Iraq. We sure don't hear a lot about how the OIL production is going in Iraq. You can be sure that our Military is protecting that oil. We drove north to the oil fields in the first weeks of the Invasion of Iraq. And our navy seals were on the Southern Oil Platforms long before the war got hot. The first thing we did was take over the Oil Platforms off the Coast of Iraq. There is not doubt in my mind that the oil was our prime reason for that war.

As to why the price of oil is so high now is something I too am asking myself. If Iraq has 25% of the world PROVEN oil Reserves and we have the production facilities up and running then we should be able to dump more oil on the worlds market and drop the price of oil significantly. Bush is in charge of this countries army so I think that is a question that we should ask him. Where is the money going from the sale of Iraqi Oil. And if it's going to the Iraqis then why are we still funding this war instead of the Iraqi Government. The guys getting this money from the oil should be trillion-airs right now with the price of oil being so high. So I say let the Iraqi fund this war not the US Tax payers.


Getting out of Iraq is going to be as easy as getting in. We may not get all our heavy equipment out without loosing some. But we should be able to get most of our stuff out of there. It won't be a rush like what happened in Vietnam. First off the Iraqi army is not existent and we don't have to worry about an large organized army attacking us like what happened in Vietnam.

We can secure the roads to move our forces out of Iraq. That should not be as difficult as some are making it out to be.

We also should leave sufficient forces in the region to go back into Iraq if Iran starts to try any funny stuff. We don't need to pull out of the area completely. But we should not be the ones patrolling the streets of Baghdad and getting killed by IUDs. We can always move right back into Iraq is things go sour. We did that already back in 2003.

Heck if we wanted to we could move our tanks and troops from Iraq into Kuwait in a matter of months.

After all we drove into the heart of Iraq in a matter of a few days or was it a couple of weeks.

The logistics may be tough but I am sure that if we can get all those troops into Iraq in a few weeks we can surely bring them back out in a few months or even a couple of years.

Our planes and Helicopters could fly out in 24 hours. The Abrams takes and Humvee could be driven across the desert in a few days too.

Until we pull out the Iraqis will never stand up for themselves. Even under Saddam they quickly raised the white flags when our drone planes came over head. They don't fight well. But they are going to have to learn to fight if they want to keep Iran out of their country.

I personally see Iran as much more dangerous than Iraq ever was.

Iran,Persia, has alway been a super power in the past.

Now did I miss anything?

[Moose1am]

[QUOTE=Devils Horse;329369]Okay President Bush and co are criminals and liars right?
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Well they are not innocent Lilly white babes in the woods, that's for sure!

If you call wire tapping the American Publics phone calls without a warrant criminal behavior then yes they have committed crimes. Much like Richard Nixon did in Watergate. Ordering the break-in of Dem HQ to plant bugs and breaking into someone's private phone conversation are much alike. Both are illegal under the law.

Breaking into someone's offices and taking patients' files and private information is much like reading peoples emails illegally without a warrant from the court. Is just easier to get by with. Now Bush/Cheney want to get the laws changed to protect AT&T and the other telecoms that went along with this illegal wire tapping scheme from prosecution. In fact the AT&T guys may have to testify under oat and they could spill the beans on what went on with this illegal wire tapping scheme.

So yes I would bet money that Both Bush and Cheney have broken laws. More than a few laws to be exact!.

Cheney shot a man while hunting in TX and after drinking beer for lunch and was not even given a blood alcohol test until 24 hours later. Anyone else who did that would have been hauled off to jail and given a blood alcohol test on the spot. And if they found alcohol in the blood of anyone else doing this they would have charged him with a crime that night not allowed to leave and go home to sober up before coming back to the police station the next day to take a blood test.

And then there is all those missing emails from the White house and VP office.
Thousands of government emails are missing and probably stolen by the GOP and their operatives. Secrete computer servers being used to conduct government business have vanished into thin air. Now that's criminal too.

The Watergate Nixon Tapes were evidence and some 18 minutes of the tapes were erased. Nixon was being impeached over the Watergate burglaries and the cover ups which included erasing the Presidential Tapes. The US Supreme Court determined that those tapes belonged to the US Government not Richard Nixon. But hundreds of government emails have been deleted or taken out of the Governments possession. That in and of itself is illegal. Lying to congress is illegal also. Lying to the FBI is illegal as well.
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[QUOTE=Devils Horse;329369]Eventhough the war with Al Queda is happening in Iraq instead of on American soil, we never should've been there right?
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We didn't have to worry about Al Queda on American Soil before Bush got into offices. Our risk of attack on US soil rose significantly after Bush took over. And Bush was asleep at the wheel when the 911 attacks occurred. Remember when he was shown on TV in that grade school class room and Andy Car came up to him and told him about the 911 attack on the WTC. Bush just sat there and didn't nothing for a few minutes. He acted like he could care less at that time. Why didn't he get up and leave immediately to take charge of the military when our Country was under Attack. He got into a plane and ran for cover is what he did! But that's what draft dodgers do I guess. Meanwhile **** Cheney as hiding in his bunker too. Our main defense HQ was hit without the US military firing a shot. We have a entire squadron stationed at Andrew Air Force Base and not one of those F15 were scrambled to protect the Nations Capital or the Pentagon. I was amazed to find out that there were no defensive missile guarding the Pentagon. I wonder if that's changed yet? Then there was the Anthrax Attacks right after 911. Were they designed to stop the investigation into the attacks of 911. If not they sure did just that. BTW that was US Military Grade Anthrax that can only have come out of a US Military Biological Weapons factory and no were else. How did US Military Grade Anthrax Get sent to the Leaders of the US Senate and the New Media? I mean the maddest of the Roman Empires could have not planned a better way to shut up their opponents in the Roman Senate. This was an attempted coup on the US Government if there ever was one. I mean they shot the Kennedy's but this Anthrax Attack as over the top. Funny how the FBI still has not solved this high crime. I would not doubt one bit if it leads back to the White House.

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[QUOTE=Devils Horse;329369]One quick note. In case you forgot, Afghanistan was the first place we hit.
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I am not the one that has forgotten about Afghanistan, Bush/Cheney/Rummy were the one that failed Afghanistan by pulling all the US Troops out of Afghanistan and putting them in Iraq before the job of catching Bin Laden was completed. And right now Bin laden is sitting just over the boarder and laughing at Bush/Cheney. But maybe Bush/Cheney need the boogie man and don't really want to kill him. Why have they not gone after Bin Laden where ever he hides like Bush Promised. So much for Bush's "Dead or alive" speech. Bush is so full of it.
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[QUOTE=Devils Horse;329369]But nevermind all that, let's hear your plan. Vote in the most liberal presidential candidate in history? Leave Iraq immediately?
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Much better than voting for Bush again and spending another 3 trillion dollars on a war that's only designed to make the Military Industrial Complex Richer at the expense of others. And a war that has use stop loss to make our boys and women server far more than they signed up for in the first place. Our military is in a mess right now. They are overworked and understaffed. Why are the Military suicide rates at their highest level ever right now? It's because of this stupid war. How many more brave soldier are going to have to die for those stupid Iraqis. Iraqis that can't even stand up for themselves after 4 years of help in the form of US blood, sweat and tears and billions of our tax dollars?
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[QUOTE=Devils Horse;329369]Then do what? Establish meaningful dialogue with those 'moderate' folks in Iran and wait for the next attack?
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Humm. I don't' recall Iran ever attacking the USA proper? I do remember they kicking the Shaw of Iran out of their country and the USA along with the Shaw. It's hard to forget the Iran hostage situation. But I would have bombed Iran back into the Stone age back then if I were in Carters Shoes. Why not establish a dialog with Iran. I mean we do that with Russia and China right now and they are more of a threat to us than Iran ever will be. After the Cuban Missile Crisis the President put in the direct link phone to Moscow. Don't you remember that? Now the President of the USA can talk directly to the President of Russian. There is nothing wrong with talking to your enemies.
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[QUOTE=Devils Horse;329369]Explain exactly what we should do about a region where a lot of people want us dead, and will go to any extreme to accomplish their goal. You've already told us what the president's doing wrong, so save the criticism and just tell us what we should be doing.
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They don't want us dead, they want us out of their territory. We would say the same thing if Iran was over here messing around in Mexico and Canada and interfering with our way of life. Do you blame them for wanting the USA out of their country? I can't blame them for that, but then again I really don't care what they think. I do care about the USA's survival in this troubled world. I have not seen any Muslims going to the extreme other than 15 or so of them from Saudi Arabia. Yet GW Bush still talks to the Saudi King. He was there just a few weeks ago begging them to pump more oil and they said no right to his face. All he did was laugh and smile. Some President he turned out to be huh?

Do you really believe that all those millions of people over in the Middle East hate all Americans because we have our freedoms? That's is the biggest crock that I have ever heard. Bush/Cheney have been spreading that crap for 7 year now. "Everybody hates us and nobody likes us" They don't hate us for our freedoms, unless you consider that were are stepping all over them to continue our way of life. We want to keep up our quality of life and that requires oil my friends. We don't have the oil and they do. So if we want to maintain our freedoms we have to take their oil. Heck I would be fighting against that too if I were them. Not saying that is good for us. But I sure understand where they are coming from. But in reality they have not attacked us. Those that did attack us didn't do so with a huge army. No they used our own planes and turned them against us. But they are ALL DEAD. Do you want to send our entire military over there to attack a country that was not even in on the 911 attacks? Do you want to punish all the Muslims in the world for the actions of 15 Saudi Zealots? I would think now. How many more of our soldiers lives are you willing to waste for this war. And what good has this war brought to us. It sure has not lowered our cost of living.

Surely your are not trying to tell me to save my criticism? Where did you get the idea that you can do that and that I would do what you say? I don't think it works that way.

I'll let Obama and the Newly Elected Democratic Congress tell this country what to do. That's not my job. I only vote for them, not do their job for them.

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[QUOTE=Devils Horse;329369]Maybe you can also help me understand why this is a just a "stupid war over oil" while you're at it. Middle eastern oil comes to us mainly from the Saudis. If Mr. Bush is such a crook and it's all about oil, why haven't we just taken control of Iraq's oil?
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And were is the Iraqi Oil? In fact the first thing that happened in the War on Iraq was that our US Navy Seals took over the Iraqi Oil Platforms the very first few hours of the war. LOOK IT UP! I thought that everyone knew that already. And we took control of no only the Southern Oil fields but we sent a special division up north to Secure the Oil Fields up in Northern Iraq. Our Military is in total control of the Iraqi Oil right now!

Bush and the Saudi Oil guys are in cahoots. They are all making a killing on these high oil prices.

Why would Bush want the price of oil to come back down. He and Cheney are benefiting with the higher price of oil and gas. I would bet that their net worth has gone up with the price of oil.

Bush is almost gone from office now. He only has a few more months to serve and he is a lame duck. I am sure that he is thinking of HIS FUTURE Much more than Our future. Remember that before he was appointed President by the GOP controlled Supreme court he was a OIL Land man first. BTW.. he failed at that job too.