indiana is awful! where do you rate it?

[firstrock]

Great discussion folks.

Let me add a few comments. First, IDNR is a governmental agency and until it is a separate entity politics will always have first priority. The folks at IDNR are committed to our natural resources not raising money. Unfortunately in Indiana, being committed to natural resources also means being in bed with politicians if you expect to get anything done. It's not the preferred arrangement but it's better than nothing!

To those of you who think Indiana doesn't have good fisheries I ask you this: what have you personally done to make it better? Bought a license? How about paying launch fee's? Registering your boat? These fee's largely go towards maintaining what we currently have, not necessarily improving the fishery. If you want a better fishery, get involved at some level. Join a watershed group, improve the headwaters that feed our lakes and reservoirs, lobby your elected officials to make improvements and add funding to IDNR, work with the SWCD's to impove land use practices. These are the easiest and best ways to improve angling along with education programs. Far too many people are willing to offer their opinion on how to make things better but those same folks do little in the way of active participation.

If you want better angling opportunities in Indiana do something about it besides criticizing those agencies entrusted with preserving and protecting what we have!

John Bunner
Indiana Smallmouth Alliance

[MikeAxsom]

John, Kudos for "getting it". Too few really do. Your discussion of the relationship with politics is to the point and accurate. If we sportsmen and managers are really interested in making a difference we should quit bemoaning the system that does not give us an advantage, and work within it to take the advantage. Even here in Indiana, I think, if we could become effectively organized we could be an unstoppable political force.

But, alas, too many of our peers are like Grumpy of the 7 Dwarfs. No matter what is going on their attitude is “I don’t understand it but I’m against it”. That is often a matter of them falling victim to the efforts of professional politicians. If Mitch Daniels were to propose building 10 new large lakes, some lake proponents would be against it because they will not support a Republican governor. And if there was a Democrat in office that proposed the same plan, there would be Republican anglers that would oppose it for the same reason. That is one thing that makes the left wing kooks so powerful. They actually place their agendas above part politics. For that, if for nothing else, they are sort of admirable. It lets them with their small numbers kick our large number butts at nearly every turn.

[idbefishing]

Great discussion folks.

Let me add a few comments. First, IDNR is a governmental agency and until it is a separate entity politics will always have first priority. The folks at IDNR are committed to our natural resources not raising money. Unfortunately in Indiana, being committed to natural resources also means being in bed with politicians if you expect to get anything done. It's not the preferred arrangement but it's better than nothing!

To those of you who think Indiana doesn't have good fisheries I ask you this: what have you personally done to make it better? Bought a license? How about paying launch fee's? Registering your boat? These fee's largely go towards maintaining what we currently have, not necessarily improving the fishery. If you want a better fishery, get involved at some level. Join a watershed group, improve the headwaters that feed our lakes and reservoirs, lobby your elected officials to make improvements and add funding to IDNR, work with the SWCD's to impove land use practices. These are the easiest and best ways to improve angling along with education programs. Far too many people are willing to offer their opinion on how to make things better but those same folks do little in the way of active participation.

If you want better angling opportunities in Indiana do something about it besides criticizing those agencies entrusted with preserving and protecting what we have!

John Bunner
Indiana Smallmouth Alliance

Yeah, you tell em bro! Ask not what the state can do for you but what you can do for the state. As for me, I'm too broke to do anything.

[MikeAxsom]

I can't help but be surprised at the number of times we see people complain about money when discussing fishing. After 36 years in this business it seems to me that this is one of the most unfounded complaints out there in the world of outdoor recreation. Nothing I know of offers the level and volume of entertainment for the money than does fishing. $14 per year for a license, a few bucks for bait and snacks, and as little or as much as we choose to spend on tackle and equipment, strikes me as a bargain.

It has long been my suspicion that some of the weeping and wailing we so often see in these boards may come from a subconscious reaction from a special segment of folks that bought into the idea that buying a bass boat, truck and $10K in tackle was going to be their ticket out of the boring day job and make them rich and famous like the guys on TV. When that does not happen and they find themselves struggling to make the $400 truck payment and the $700 boat payment while still working that day job, they become convinced that someone is plotting against them and keeping them from being happy like they intended to be. All of a sudden the guys with the big boats and dreams are the ones complaining about launch fees and the lack of that one big fish they know they would have caught if the stupid DNR would just produce it for them; while the folks fishing for fun with the kids are still happy.

What a pity that so many seem to have fallen into this trap.

[bassmanic1]

I can't help but be surprised at the number of times we see people complain about money when discussing fishing. After 36 years in this business it seems to me that this is one of the most unfounded complaints out there in the world of outdoor recreation. Nothing I know of offers the level and volume of entertainment for the money than does fishing. $14 per year for a license, a few bucks for bait and snacks, and as little or as much as we choose to spend on tackle and equipment, strikes me as a bargain.

It has long been my suspicion that some of the weeping and wailing we so often see in these boards may come from a subconscious reaction from a special segment of folks that bought into the idea that buying a bass boat, truck and $10K in tackle was going to be their ticket out of the boring day job and make them rich and famous like the guys on TV. When that does not happen and they find themselves struggling to make the $400 truck payment and the $700 boat payment while still working that day job, they become convinced that someone is plotting against them and keeping them from being happy like they intended to be. All of a sudden the guys with the big boats and dreams are the ones complaining about launch fees and the lack of that one big fish they know they would have caught if the stupid DNR would just produce it for them; while the folks fishing for fun with the kids are still happy.

What a pity that so many seem to have fallen into this trap.

Mike ,
I think you are way off base . Sure , there are a lot of guys & gals who dream of making it into big time tournament fishing but they dont blame the "stupid DNR" for not making that dream come true . They complaints about fee's is the same as complaints about property taxes , wheel taxes , ect. ect. .. Most people look at outdoor recreation as a god given FREE right and resent paying for it , which isnt good . We as outdoors people need to help protect it by paying to use it . Its human nature to resent government intervention but in this case its a nessesary evil . Just keep up the good work and try to ignore the few who cry about every little fee - most of us grumble but pay it knowing it is for a good cause . Now the price of fuel is different matter , grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !

[cgable]

I can't help but be surprised at the number of times we see people complain about money when discussing fishing. After 36 years in this business it seems to me that this is one of the most unfounded complaints out there in the world of outdoor recreation. Nothing I know of offers the level and volume of entertainment for the money than does fishing. $14 per year for a license, a few bucks for bait and snacks, and as little or as much as we choose to spend on tackle and equipment, strikes me as a bargain.

It has long been my suspicion that some of the weeping and wailing we so often see in these boards may come from a subconscious reaction from a special segment of folks that bought into the idea that buying a bass boat, truck and $10K in tackle was going to be their ticket out of the boring day job and make them rich and famous like the guys on TV. When that does not happen and they find themselves struggling to make the $400 truck payment and the $700 boat payment while still working that day job, they become convinced that someone is plotting against them and keeping them from being happy like they intended to be. All of a sudden the guys with the big boats and dreams are the ones complaining about launch fees and the lack of that one big fish they know they would have caught if the stupid DNR would just produce it for them; while the folks fishing for fun with the kids are still happy.

What a pity that so many seem to have fallen into this trap.

MIke I think your on the left a little with your opinion. I know guys beat you up for cost at Boggs but you have a tremendous fishery I like the bang for my buck with the lake except maybe just a little more gravel grading in the ramp parking lot and a restroom that is accessible at the ramps( I think several times I have been there its been closed). The camp grounds are pretty nice too. Me and my daughter actually did a trash clean up at Boggs last year. Oh yeah one more thing I caught a 9 lb 3 oz LM at Boggs Last Spring. A dollar is a dollar to anyone so the idea that "tournament fisherman" are the only ones feeling the pinch and wanting to see what that dollar is spent on is not really a valid argument. To each his own. Ease up a little on us tourney guys. I get the idea that some can leave a bad taste in your mouth. But we are not all bad guys and yes there are some that actually become lucky enough to quit the day job and fish for a living put it is rare.

[slowride]

Indiana has no water compared to the other states, it *****! We should dam up the white river and make a 60k acre lake...........

[Tobias]

I understand exactly where your coming from Mike. My thoughts are this...............the Indiana waters just don't match up to KY,TN, and others. Most (reasonable) people can understand the fees......but have a probblem w/ the quality of water, facilities,and overall experiences we get here in IN. You have a great place down there where your at Mike, but it's one of the very few in this state.

The post that really got me was the one that said Patoka is as good of fishin as KY and Barkley. Patoka is the best "big lake" fishin in this state but doesn't remotely hold a candle to the KY lakes.

[bassmanic1]

The fishing in Indiana is what you make of it . A lot of guys dont have the funds to pay for a trip down south and the out-of-state lis. fee's . Personaly I fish a lot of strip pits in southern IN which is fairly loaded with them . Most have towns close by for gas & bait . Greene Sullivan , Minnehaha , and all the 1000's of unnamed pits across the state . Dogwood , West Boggs , Brookville all have good fishing and you dont need a 20' Ranger to fish them . Hovey Lake used to be known all over the mid-west for crappie fishing but Ducks Unlimited and the DNR took care of that . The Ohio river gives up massive catches of monster catfish and Cabelas held a catfish tourny there not long ago . All in all I wouldnt call IN fishing "awful" . I think EVERYBODY is a bit grumpy due to the price of gas , which I believe is the government is behind to stop global warming .

[olducker]

The fishing in Indiana is what you make of it . A lot of guys dont have the funds to pay for a trip down south and the out-of-state lis. fee's . Personaly I fish a lot of strip pits in southern IN which is fairly loaded with them . Most have towns close by for gas & bait . Greene Sullivan , Minnehaha , and all the 1000's of unnamed pits across the state . Dogwood , West Boggs , Brookville all have good fishing and you dont need a 20' Ranger to fish them . Hovey Lake used to be known all over the mid-west for crappie fishing but Ducks Unlimited and the DNR took care of that . The Ohio river gives up massive catches of monster catfish and Cabelas held a catfish tourny there not long ago . All in all I wouldnt call IN fishing "awful" . I think EVERYBODY is a bit grumpy due to the price of gas , which I believe is the government is behind to stop global warming .

Please give me more on why Hovey Lake was messed up by the DU and Indiana DNR. I assumed it was all Indiana DNR fault. The fact they redid the drain.

The fact they shut down the camping, because they were too lazy or did have money put in Handicap access which ever it was not good.

Yes I do catch a lot of fish in Indiana, but since I have retired, I have had a chance to fish several other states and Canada and I have had a chnace to see what GOOD MANAGEMENT can do. Indiana DNR does not put out the effort and put their money in the right places. It is not the entire DNR but probably the top pencil pushers and a few poor property managers.

I know most of the Southern Indiana Conservation officers and they do a great job

[MikeAxsom]

Thanks for the kind words about our facility, Tobias. We do try, although I must say I think there are some other places in the stat that are pretty nice as well.

When comparing Indiana waters with those of KY and TN, and a few others, there are some cold hard facts that many lake users do not know or understand.

The first is that most of that difference is about topography, not fishing or fishery management. Some of the big rivers in those states run in long deep valleys between large hills. Compared to TN and KY, Indiana is relatively flat. That is fact one.

Another fact is that very few lakes have ever been built in the USA with a primary design focus of fisheries management. They are built to control flooding; which is why the source of the funding came through the US Army Corps of Engineers (COE). I some of the southern lakes and other agency was formed as the Tennessee Valley Authorit (TVA). In other places dams were built by the Bureau of Reclamation.

The purpose of nearly all the big man-made waters in the USA were built for flood control and/or hydroelectric production. Fishing, boating and other recreation activities are nice bonus features in some of these projects, but are not why the lakes were built; and were never seen as a source of funding for lake development. They are still not.

Suggestions like damming the White river to make a large lake because anglers feel they need more water is an ill-informed suggestion. Such a a project would likely cost billions of dollars in today’s marketplace. If there is no need for flood control or power production, and if we are to begin building large lakes for fishing, the cost of fishing would be astronomical. Not only is there the cost of the construction, but the project would also require the purchase of all the involved land. Indiana has some 6.3 million people. At least one estimate indicates about 10% of that population fish at least once per year. That would be about 630,000 people to split the cost. At even $1 Billion, the cost of such a lake built by IDNR would require each angler in the state to pay something in the neighborhood of $1,587 each, just of that one project.

Another fact is that the days of building big lakes in the US are probably over. Most of the large rivers are now controlled to some degree, and environmental concerns would cause serious problems getting large land areas flooded nowadays. I know of no initiatives out there in the management pipeline that appear to offer any real hope for new large lakes of the scale we saw built in the 50’s and 60’s, and 70’s. There is just not going to be any new 60K acre lake in Indiana in our lifetimes. What we need to focus on is how to best utilize what we have and protect the resource that is left. That means better and more appropriate watershed management, more effort on enforcement and education about things that damage angling overall. And that is going to cost a lot of money that anglers are going to have to pay; because no one else wants it to happen enough to pay for it for us.

[Lucky1s]

I really do not understand all the crying.... Indiana does not pay crap when it comes to fees.

Texas is $33 just for the license... and that only lets you fish inland freshwater lakes. We pay $17... basically half.

And then people saying there are no fish here???? Mike call me crazy but was there not a 30 POUND sack pulled out of Boggs this spring in a tournament. With the exception of maybe three or four lake in this country any professional would take that bag. It takes 20 pounds to win tournaments at Patoka or Monroe almost all year long.

Indiana has more fisherman out there per fishable acre than any other state... so yeah... there night be a bit more pressure. You have three options the way I see it- 1-fish out of state and spend more money 2-stay at home 3-DEAL WITH IT!!!

JUST STOP CRYING.......