just **** it up!!!!

[LarryG]

You.re right about a lot of that, and wrong about some other stuff. But the hidden point I'm trying to make is this. Many of us on this board,are a little better off than most. maybe we dont see the big picture.My niece graduated in Feb, with a degree, she is still looking for a suitable job. My son in law, who has a part of the american dream, can barely make ends meet, and he has a very good paying job, but traveling to work,is killing him because of fuel prices, and there were no raiswes last year, because of the economy. and there is no way he will be able to save enough money to put two boys into a university. Comparing the disasters is bull, how many lives were lost in the mid west? When we compare money to human lives, we become part of the problem. Did those poor familys have crop insurance? Were they able to get government loans for rebuilding? The cost for the recent flooding are not news, hardly anyone died.I'm an old curmedgeon,I can't feel all the pain, because of my circumstances. But when old fools make stupid remarks, it reminds me of what the the GOP means The grand OLD party.

[DJD]

You.re right about a lot of that, and wrong about some other stuff. But the hidden point I'm trying to make is this. Many of us on this board,are a little better off than most. maybe we dont see the big picture.My niece graduated in Feb, with a degree, she is still looking for a suitable job. My son in law, who has a part of the american dream, can barely make ends meet, and he has a very good paying job, but traveling to work,is killing him because of fuel prices, and there were no raiswes last year, because of the economy. and there is no way he will be able to save enough money to put two boys into a university. Comparing the disasters is bull, how many lives were lost in the mid west? When we compare money to human lives, we become part of the problem. Did those poor familys have crop insurance? Were they able to get government loans for rebuilding? The cost for the recent flooding are not news, hardly anyone died.I'm an old curmedgeon,I can't feel all the pain, because of my circumstances. But when old fools make stupid remarks, it reminds me of what the the GOP means The grand OLD party.

I'm in no way comparing lives lost that's not even possible man come on I'm not that cold. I was hoping you wouldn't either. I'm just extremely surprised that this catastrophy has been basically shelved in the media, makes me wonder why. I guess the flooding is like you say it was only money but that money comes from somewhere and part of the screaming down south was about money and support which is part of my point.
Yeah I'm still taking shots at Nagan and everything he got away with including his racial remark of making New Orleans a chocolate city again. What would have happened if a white man said on national t.v. I want this to be a vanilla city? I'll answer that for you he would have been fired and made to be a villian, double standard huh?
I know people who are doing great in this economy and people who are suffering as well. I'll bet that during any Democrat administration in the history of this country we could find the same story. Just helped a friend of mine paint her new bldg to open up a clinic in this so called RECESSION! Holy cow! Is that possible someone starting a business in this so called RECESSION?? I guess I'll call her and tell her that the Liberals said she is making a mistake and that the kool-aid is being shipped to her...next day air of course! It's no secret what the Dems are doing they fill young college minds, government supported minds, entertainers, weak minded individuals oh I already said entertainers (my bad) with social fear and empty promises of a better life and it's always at the cost of others.
I hired A new business owner to do some service work for us on some of our service contracts and I mean NEW as in just himself and a truck. He isn't laying down and drinking the kool-aid either. I'm like alot of other guys on here that are a paycheck or two from the streets. I'm not wealthy but I work as hard or harder than alot of people to make ends meet. I saw this fuel problem coming years ago (anyone who thinks should have) so I never purchased a full sized boat bought a Harley instead! Heck, my boat is a 14ft jon boat but I'm 100% solid on my thinking that small business makes this country work. Government needs to be reduced, cost and wasted programs need to be reduced and taxes don't need to go up. Unions are a big problem and have put a hurting on alot of people. That needs some reworking as well.

[LarryG]

What unions? Did the UAW opt to build SUVs instead of compacts? Did the IBEW bring in undocumented workers for the construction industry. The only american union with any powwer is the Teamsters, and less than 9ne third of them are organized.You want unions? how aboutt he AMA? The american bar association. Wake up, that old song dont work no more! There are far less union workers in this country than before, and there power is almost nil. By the way the OCAW did not shut down 6 refinerys in northern indiana. That bank that failed in california was not caused by union activity. Its chasing the quick buck,and forgetting what trouble that causes that is hurting us. WE need to bail out that bank, isn't that welfare also?

[DJD]

I know your a Union man from reading your posts. I have never been in one but have seen the problems that they can cause. I know Unions were a necessity many years ago when america's work force was young and being taken advantage of but times have changed and the Unions have the power to make a company fold under pressure.

The construction industry in Kentucky is now (for many years) being forced to pay wages comparable to Union wages on state funded projects. The unions backed Gov. Patton and what do you know before long we have to bid state projects with this new criteria of higher wages to the workers (we are forced to do this). So now any school being built is costing more money(it usually goes over budget) and most workers who usually make 10-18 per hour can now make 25-40 per hour. How does that make sense? I would think the teachers would be upset over that! Instead of paying them more the state pays more to build the schools because of a perceived payback to the unions so the unions could be more competitive. Yeah, I feel the unions have caused an increase in illegal immigrants in the construction industry for the reasons I have stated above (companies find a way to survive).The smaller companies cannot compete when the unions have dictated and bargained their way into what is supposed to be competitive business. The union companies can't compete because the unions forced companies to pay too much in wages and benefits to the employees. A small nonunion company has a lower overhead and can charge less for a better product. They must be better to survive.

In retrospect, the state funded projects pay more to the workers but the union companies still do not get a huge share because they charge even more than what they dictated years ago and companies find creative ways to follow the specifications and beat the union bids. Why don't the unions pay less (or realistic wages) to the workers instead of trying to make everyone else pay more? Sounds like Liberal thinking to me.

Some workers (not all, relax) in unions can find it easier to scale back and cruise through their jobs as well instead of being proactive toward perfection and sucess. In the nonunion jobs the slackers are easier to be weeded out. Thats the environment/attitude the unions breed. Thats a fact from talking with many union friends and most are with UPS. Again it folds into that Liberal ideal of someone taking care of me even when I do nothing to contribute other than pay dues. Unions can and will force companies to pay more or increase benefits as the company florishes. Whats wrong with a company making money? I have heard of UPS union workers making 75k-100k a year to drive package cars?? 100k a year or more to drive overnight rigs?
Unions are a victim of their own greed and that they lost their way. So your right on that unions are less organized.

[Bobby Headrick]

How can anyone say that we are not in a resession? Just because the current admin does not say iy, why would they? They have done noting but lie to us over the last eight years.Some say that this resession talk is by fear monger Dem's. I do not see that. I work every day helping people who have lost their jobs and have a hard time making ends meet. I work everyday but am only a paycheck or two away from losing all. I have not had a raise in over 5 yrs, but everthing else has gone up, maybe if I was a rich Republican I would not be worried. The financial advisor for Mcann said this is a MIND RESESSION, tell that to the folks at Toyota, Dana, the airlines, the banks, the list goes on and on. All this is is due to a war that contrary to some was started with lies. NO weapons of mass destruction were found, except oil wells controlled by our "friends the Saudie's", and OPEC, there is your real terriorists. The whole war thing is about oil period. Is the world better off without Hussien? There was not one Iraqi on the 911 planes,all were Saudies. Is Bin Laden in Iraq? Was he? No. I am glad some are not feeling this the way I and others are,must be nice to be rich and turn a blind eye on the problem's at hand, that is what is wrong with this country now to many have closed their minds and eye's to the real truth and can only justify their actions thru more lies and deception. Yes we as a country have been spolied somewhat, we at one time had the lowest energy prices in the world. But we did not use our minds to look into other options for energy until now and it is too late. We are the most modern nation in the world and the most powerful but we cannot break away from energy sources that do not last and our infistructure is going down the tubes, I guess after we fall we can rebuild better and more logical as that is what all other great nations have had to do. We need to learn from our mistakes to make it better instead of constinally repeating them. GOP to me now means Greedy Opressive People, instead of Grand Ole Party. This current admin has bulit it's legacy on fear and nothing else, as fear is the best way to control the masses.

[DJD]

The economic experts say no recession not the Bush Administration. Both parties are guilty of not weaning us from foreign oil not just this administration. Why can't the Libs understand that? It's easy to understand you just have to do the research. The WMD thing is played out and both parties were guilty of the war as well. I found quotes from Hillary, John Kerry and many other Dems who said something had to be done. What scares me is if we just stood by and did nothing where would we be now? Constantly blaming the Republicans for everything is getting old. There is no way! How was this war about oil?
BTW, Democrats are very rich too and they will continue to be. If you want to believe them about wealth feel free but how in the world will a politician tax himself to death? Do you really think they would do that? Nope, no way, no how. They will take every loop hole there is in the tax code and even some questoinable ones. They will tell you the same thing they have told anyone who would listen from the start. Look at it this way if the Dems were so good at fixing the problem with welfare and lower to middle class income families why is it that they are still around? Even during the Clinton terms there were people scratchin for a living and praying for a change.
GOP=Gallant Old Party that's the facts on that. Grand Old Party is just another nickname that gets thrown around. You ever meet kid or man that always calls people names? Always seems like the world is after him? Always feels nothing goes his way? Insecure about everything so they nlash out at people who haveconviction in their actions. Thats what the majority of the Libs remind me of. Lies and deception? Review the Clinton's history during his administration. Remember he was Impeached!
Bobby, I don't mean any disrespect in my posts to you or any other I just see things different. hagd.

[LarryG]

Its good to know you were far sighted enough to get a harleyn and beat the gas crunch, uh how many bags of grocerys can you get on that thing? Do you have any problems with taking the kids for school clotheson it? Its funny both my kids are anti union, guess they forgot those decent wages helped a little in educating themselves into management positons. So you think union workers like to see loafers and dead beats? then who is left to do thje work? Whjen the foremens nephew is in the john doinf a doobie, and not releiving some one, who does the worker tell? the boss?Sorry about the spelling, or maybe its this imported key board on this imported american named puter.When the garment industry left this country, and paid slave wages, did the price of clothes come down?When zenith closed its chicago plant and moved it to mexico, did the price come down? no but the quality did, is there even a company named zenith left anymore.Yes thedemocratics are preaching to the young, they will be paying for this foolish spending that has been going on for the past 12 years.I dont know you from adam dj, but there are problems, and they are not being adressed by either party. the partys are fighting a turf war and forgetting the citizens.And the Gouty Old people, are one of the major culprits.

[LarryG]

In closing there are two new definitions of the current situation. If you're laid off, and the owner says maybe they can hire you back later, thats a recession. When the new owner calls a meeting and says Buenos dias! thats a depression.

[DJD]

Larry,
We can agree to disagree. I get 40 miles per gallon on that Harley and it's just for fun, I can drive around and unwind from all the negative Liberal garbage I hear all the time! Lol!! My buddy bought the full sized bass boat and he gets alot less to the gallon so his toy stays in the garage mine gets used.
I use my Toyota Highlander or my Chevy Pickup when needed to haul the kids, dogs or mulch for the house. A Recession is two quarters of negative growth...google "recession". Hadg

[RoadToad]

Maybe we're in a recession, maybe we aren't, but nobody on the planet can say for sure while it's happening. By definition, you can't know whether we're in a recession until we've experienced two consecutive quarters of negative growth of the GDP, and those numbers aren't available until after the fact. Last quarter, the GDP did grow, a very small amount. But that doesn't mean that the quarter we're currently in, and the next quarter, won't show negative growth of the GDP. If they do, then we can look back and say that today (7/14/08) we were in a recession. If not, then our current situation is not a true "recession." So, anybody who tries to tell you that yes, we're in a recession, or no, we're not, is IMHO not an "economic expert," because they don't understand the terms they're using. They're just some schmuck with an opinion (kinda like me).

[Bobby Headrick]

No offence taken DJD. I am not a tried and true liberal, as I try see both sides of the issue. I am not blaming just the repub's for this mess, both sides have made this mess and both need to work together to clean it up. I was raised Rep, but later switched, I am more of an independent, but that limits your voting options and cannot vote in Primarys. I do not want Gov control of everything just some things need monitered better, ie; health care, ins, energy. Yes I agree that we are not in a defined ression according to the experts, but it sure is feeling like one, too much job loss, to many business folding. Car dealers are slashiing prices and people still are not buying, so are boat dealers. Nothing is moving much as most are just trying to survive until this is over. Yes both parties are controled by the rich and powerful, both parties voted for this stupid war without 100% proof of why we needed to go to war in the first place. It seems that the majority that are in charge of this great country of ours only care for themselves and their entorage. If the leaders did care then we would not be in this mess. I work in the welfare dept for Ky, I do agree that there are a lot out there abusing this system, some have never and will never work, and we all foot their bill, this is not right. Also the illegal imagration thing is also hurting us, as some receive benifits but do not pay any taxes, boy I sure do pay them and dearly. This makes me sick. To me this crisis is manily affecting the middle class working people, the retired, and the disabled who have worked all their lives. I love a debate and like the express my opinoins just like you. I am no expert, and do not claim to be, if I had the money I would run for office, but I am too honest to be a politican and like working for my check. We as a people need to work together to solve these problems, as this country was set up by the people for the people of the people.

[DJD]

I was raised around the Military seeing as my Dad is a 30 year Navy man and I served 4 years in the Army. He never discussed politics with us (smart man) and has voted both sides. I'm actually a registered Independant who has sided with the Conservative side each time but it's getting harder to tell who is what anymore. Each side walks the fence so much just to tap into the Independant and Minority votes. Alot of The Christian Right Wing voters are up for grabs this time as well. In this upcoming election I'll go McCain but he wasn't my choice, now he is my only choice.