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Senior Member
Just watched Glenn Beck on Headline News and he explained and gave examples of why the land that has been leased is not producing. He said that once they even find oil (which they are having a hard time doing) they have to deal with the special interest groups and local governments to gain access to the oil or natural gas. Gave an example of drilling for natural gas off of Florida that took years and millions of dollars to find only to be stopped by Florida politics and then years later they denied Chevron the ability to get the gas and removed Chevrons lease.Originally Posted by apb
Exporting oil? That's pretty counter productive. Where did you find that info?
Apparently the "OCS" has oil (not sure how they know) while the leased land is barren at best. I'm not sure how true all this is but it's a start in trying to understand what's going on. Who knows???
Super Moderator
I seem to remember you agreeing with a lot of what I said while fishing (non-fishing stuff), does that make you a liberal too?? lol :-) btw, want to give them Hybrids another shot this weekend? Third times a charm and all!
DJD, I'll dig up the link and get back with you on that one. Thanks for the other info.
Andrew
Senior Member
Re: Offshore drilling = lower prices? Maybe, maybe not
You know I do still agree with you on alot of stuff and all I'm saying is if we at least try to do something now maybe it will help curtail these crazy prices at the pump. I guess it would be like in a blow up raft in the middle of the ocean with a small hole in it. You know that holding your finger over it or placing chewing gum over it is only prolonging the inevitible which is sinking, but you would still do it..... RIGHT??? I personally feel a huge problem right now is these mass commidity speculators that are screaming FIRE every time you turn around. BTW you don't think those same speculators are in anyway linked to big Oil do you, lamol. As far as fishing goes I'll call you or e-mail you I don't think I can go this Saturday, besides we caught the only two hybrids left in Guist Creek anyway, lol.
Super Moderator
Ok, lunch time, I have a few minutes to respond.
DJD "... only to be stopped by Florida politics ..."
Wasn't Jeb Bush a part of that? I know Bush I banned off-shore drilling. Man, W is going to take a beating at the next family get together! lol!
"...I don't remember hearing how he was going to cut spending. Anyone else hear what he plans on doing to cut spending?? Maybe I dozed off and didn't hear how...."
May be he is borrowing the Bush plan, spend now, let your kids and grandkids pay for it later ;-) The cutting spending part I've heard Obama talk about before. Figures if we get out of Iraq we'll save those billions and use them for other things. I'm not convinced that he can get us out of Iraq as quick as he wants. However, with the Iragis suggesting a timetable for US withdrawl, who knows. I would like to see us out of Iraq, but we also have to make sure the job there is actually done first.
As for the US exporting oil/gas:
"A record 1.6 million barrels a day in U.S. refined petroleum products were exported during the first four months of this year, up 33 percent from 1.2 million barrels a day over the same period in 2007. Shipments this February topped 1.8 million barrels a day for the first time during any month, according to final numbers from the Energy Department."
Full story at:
http://www.forbes.com/reuters/feeds/reuters/2008/07/03/2008-07-03T184028Z_01_N02435397_RTRIDST_0_USA-OIL-EXPORTS-ANALYSIS.html
One of the things that they point out is that in reality, it may be more economical to export gulf oil to South America and import foriegn oil to the NE US.
In any case, I don't see destroying the US environment just to supply others with oil/gas. That does not benifit the US as a whole. While there is all this talk of more drilling, there is no guarentee that the US will see any of that oil. The only way that we could guarentee that oil would be reaching US customers would be through some type of socialist laws. I'm pretty sure neither of us wants that!
Bobby Hendrick "... and I blame 90% of our mess on these that we keep electing year after year. In order for this mess to be righted we need to clean up DC starting from the bottom up. Both Parties. "
RoadToad "... Can we please stop blaming "liberal Dems" or "neocons" for our problems, and start working together on solutions?"
Agree 100%. If the bums are not doing what we elected them to do, fire them!!! Also agree that if we can put a man on the moon, we can come up with a viable alternive energy source(s). Probably have them already, just need a way to implement/distribute it to the country. This is something that we all need to work on, together. In my opinion, this is another problem that we face today. The partisonship in the country is growing. There is no need for that. We are all Americans, and, for the most part, all have very similar opinions on the important things (life, liberty, persute of happiness). Partisonship is a political tool used to show that the other party ***** worse than our party, so keep voting for us. Nah, they all ****, fire them.
MHAll "Andrew my ole buddy ole pal, fishing friend ect. ect., I too agree that alternative fuels are the real answer, however sitting on our hands doing absolutely nothing sure as heck ain't working either. I've always thought a little bit of something beats a whole lot of nothing. So what you are saying is basically do nothing until some Eienstein figures out a way for us to go 500 miles ona space age battery or something. We need something NOW to shake up the greedy oil tycoons and these line their pocket speculators, Just my very humble opinion. Oh yea I'll still fish with ya even though you are liberal, lol."
Here is the problem, at least how I see it. We talk about off-shore drilling, drilling in ANWARE, etc. However, NONE of that will reach us for at least 5-10 years. Thats if we do not export it elsewhere. Rather than shooting for 5-10 years to keep us dependant on oil, why not shoot for that 5-10 years for those alternative fuel sources to be in use? This is certainly not sitting on our hands, its shooting for the long-term solution. The continued drilling just keeps us dependant on the oil rather than search for other solutions rather than for keeping us in the mess we are in. Its only a matter of time before all of the oil is gone. Rather than wait until the last minute to do something, lets get serious about doing something now. I know its not all about supply and demand. After all, the demand is dropping. Oh, and don't worry, I'll still be happy to chase those two hybrids with you anytime :-)
Andrew
Senior Member
We need to drill off shore this is where the great oil fields are located. We can be producing oil in 1 1/2 years. We also need to produce the oil shale regions in the west. This oil independence will stop the speculation almost immediately. When we talk off shore we are talking fifty miles off shore you will not even know they are there except when you run out there to fish around them.
50 miles is international waters and Russia has plans to drill off our shores and you can not stop them unless we drill first. We need to do this now but continue to develop alternative sources. High cost of fuel is what is driving your cost of food not the new ethanol plants. Think of the added cost of planting and harvesting, then transporting it to market then to the mill for grinding into flower then transporting it to the baker then transporting to warehouse then distribution to the grocery store. Every thing you buy is getting hit buy higher fuel cost.
Senior Member
Roadrunner why do you stretch the truth to the point that it's so obvious.
Do you really believe that they can build an oil rig in deep water and get it going in less than 10 years? Even the oil company exec say it takes 10 years to get the first drop of oil flowing.
Come on guy when you make claims like it only takes 1 1/2 years you loose any credibility that you had.
Ten years mate .... Ten years.....
And the effect of that oil flowing ten years later won't drop the price of gasoline more than 2 or 3 cents at most.
Now I heard the CEO of of one of the major oil companies telling the public in an TV interview that it takes them ten years to get the first oil out of the ground and to the refineries.
Perhaps you know more about oil building oil platforms in the Sea than the the CEO of that oil company? I seriously don't think so.
Russian is not planning on drilling off the coast of the USA. Even Cheney has admitted he started that rumor according to TIME MAGAZINE reporters. This was disputed on the Larry King Show. And Cheney started the China rumors too. All lies to distort the truth. Reminds me of the same lies that Cheney said about Mushroom clouds and Iraqi Ballistic Missiles striking the USA home land. All lies by Cheney and his political allies to get their way. The man has no honor. I don't believe anything that 5 deferment Cheney has to say anymore. He lost all credibility with me. And I use to think the guy was great when he was the Secretary of Def under Bush Sr during the first Gulf War. But I didn't know much about him back then.
Actually the high cost of food is caused by both the high prices of oil and the fact that most of the food corn is being used to make ethanol and that reduced the amount of corn used to make our food. When you decrease the supply and not the demand the price will go up in a free market. So you are only half right on this part of your post.
We all should agree that the cost of energy is too high.
Where we disagree is on how to reduce this cost for most Americans. Some rich folks don't care if gasoline cost $20/gallon. They have enough money they can still afford to buy gas at that price. And they won't have to worry about traffic jams as they will be the only folks that can afford to buy gas at those prices.
Global warming and protection of the environment can be accomplished while lowering the cost of energy if we turn to alternative and renewable energy sources such as wind, solar, geothermal, hydro and hydrogen fuel cell powers locomotives, trucks and cars.
Have you seen the commercial that T. Boon Pickens is running on TV. There is one smart oil man who has the right vision for the future. He is pushing using LNG which I support as part of the energy mix that we should be turning to now.
Senior Member
Moose what is food corn? Humans basically do not eat corn we feed it to livestock. When you produce ethanol you only lose a portion of the corn for feed stock. A by product of the corn from ethanol is corn oil taken before the process begins they are able to take 90% of the oil out of corn before they start the fermentation process. They can use this for biodiesel. The corn left after the ethanol is removed is called DDGS and is an excellent feed stock. One of the biggest reasons for the rise in corn price is that China, India and some other nations that use to consume corn, rice etc. has developed higher living standards and is now feeding livestock as we do and demand for grain has increased. Ethanol has definitely done its part. What we need to remember is ethanol was not meant as an alternative fuel but as an oxygenate agent. Also we need to remember we are still paying farmers to not farm tillable acres for conservation reasons.
The oil expert I heard on TV said once given the go ahead the CEO’s of companies that he talked to said they can have oil in 1 ½ year. I can’t imagine it taking ten years to build platform and drill a well this is something they have been doing for years. What you are saying is it will take 10 years because of the permitting that is required today. What I am saying if congress wants to solve our short term problems they can make it happen in a short time period.
If we would have passed Bush energy policy we would have eight years behind us but since we have set on our hands we need to shorten the process and get oil flowing ASAP.
And I will bet when this happens you will see future oil price drop to 60.00 / Barrel.
Super Moderator
And if we had listened to Carter on this in the late 70's, we might not be in the mess we are in right now....
Senior Member
Food corn is any corn or corn byproduct that is fed to animals. Humans are in the animal kingdom.
A corn based ingredient in a lot of foods is CORN SYRUP. It's found in a lot of our foods as a sweetener.
I would guess that the cost of corn syrup has increased over the last few years as compared to 5 years ago.
So humans eat a lot of corn products. When you eat your morning cereal you are eating a corn product as they use corn syrup to sweeten the cereal
Any food that's sweetened more than likely has corn syrup added into the mix.
And remember this. We feed corn to our cattle to help fatten them up. They don't get enough carbohydrates from grass so we have to feed them corn to get them ready for market. I took Animal Science at Purdue University during my Pre Veterinary Medicine training. I would never have taken Animal Science on my own but Veterinarians have to have this knowledge about the food that we feed our livestock.
So I know what the farmers feed to their live stock. Also being in an Agricultural Fraternity at Purdue I lived with 70 of the largest farm owners in the State and lived with several other Vet students in the frat house. I ate breakfast and dinner ever day with these guys and I learned a great deal about how farms work. AGR is the cream of the crop in Agriculture. Our frat brothers became the dean of agriculture at Purdue and one was the US Secretary of Agriculture for many years. Ever heard of Earl Butts? Rest in peace my friend.
Anyway you and I both eat a lot of beef, pork and chicken unless you belong to PETA and don't eat meat.All those animals are feed corn to help fatten them up for the market. So when the price of corn goes up the price of chicken feed goes up. The farmers cost goes up and they have to charge more for their products. The price of beef will rise as will the price of chicken.
Ethanol is made from the starch or carbohydrates found in the corn kernel not the oil. So if they take the oil out we still loose the starches to ethanol production and those are lost.
If you take all the oil and starches out of the corn kernel all you have left is the fiber and while that's good for some things it will not put meat on a cow or chicken. Only Carbs and protein will do that.
Now a cow has four chambers in it's rumen. So the bacteria inside the cow can break down some of that fiber and utilize it. But it's lost most of it's nutritional value in the fermentation process when it's made into Ethanol.
We would be better off using SWITCH Grass to make ethanol than using corn. Switch grass can be harvested two or three times a growing season and it can grow on less fertile lands.
Ethanol used in gas at a concentration of less than 10% is OK by me. But when you use E 85 then you are putting a lot more ethanol into the gas. 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline from fossil fuels.
Do you know how many atoms of oxygen are on the ethanol molecule? =oh added to the carbon chain makes it an alcohol.
The US Agricultural program of paying farmers to not use land is a good thing. Land has to rest. Also the land that's not tilled can be use by the wildlife. Quail and pheasants as well as rabbits can use this idle land to reproduce their numbers. By not tilling the grassy areas along the ditches and creeks we give wildlife a protective corridor to live in. And by leaving grassy areas and small woody scrubs along the edges of the ditches we prevent the lost of top soil. Erosion is lessened and that helps stop the silting in of the ditches, creeks and rivers. It slows down the eutrophication process as well.
I heard the CEO of the oil company say that it would take ten years. Now you are talking about drilling off the coast right? I want to make sure that we are on the same page here and comparing apples to apples. I am talking about ten years to drill offshore. I'll stand by my ten year statement and I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I guess it depends on who we talk to. I have heard the 10 year time period for many years now.
Anyway I guess congress could rewrite the entire Clean Air Act which BTW was first put into law under Richard Nixon's Administration. Nixon was in office when the USEPA became part of the Executive Branch of the Federal Government.
Drilling for more oil is not going to lower the gas prices. I read on a web site about a giant oil field that's in the Northern Part of the Midwest. There are suppose to be billions of barrels of oil in this area. Why don't we drill here in Kansas or South Dakota and use that oil?
The oil companies have permits to drill in 68 MILLION acres of US Ground and are not using the permitted land to drill. Why? 68 Million acres is a lot of ground to explore. Why would they not utilize all that land? Why did they seek the permits if they were not going to use it?
Are they hording the oil that they already have just to make the price of oil go higher?
It's not like this has not been done in the past with other commodities like Diamonds. Why do you think that diamond ring costs so much? It's only a rock? But the De Beers Diamond Company hoards their diamonds and keeps the supply of Diamond low. This makes the Price higher. It's the same business model that I think the Oil Companies are using. Then they can blame their lack of drilling on Congress.
Well Congress is telling them to drill it or lose it. I think that is a wise choice by our congress. Congress is calling their bluff. If they don't start drilling on the 68 million acres they already have permits for they will loose those permits and they will be sold to someone else that will really use them
Even if we find oil that will last us another 100 years or so what will we do when our consumption of oil grows even faster. China is growing and they have a huge population. India also has a huge human population and they too are growing more modern. All the world is using more cars and trucks and burning more and more oil. It won't take very long to use up the new oil
What I think we need to do is look at our long term future not just the short term future. We need to develop energy sources that won't run out.
We can put more research in to solar panels. Just the other night I was watching NOVA and they did a show on solar panels. They are using Nano technology to build better and more efficient solar panels. These have microscopic raised volcano shaped structures that are capped with gold and they capture more sunlight and convert that into more electricity. These new solar panels are 3 x more efficient that the older panels. If these could be put on the market and sold in volumes they could help provide the USA with more electricity to power our homes, cars and factories.
This electrical power could be used to spit the water molecule and make Oxygen and Hydrogen gas. These gases can be put into containers and shipped around the area.
Fuel cells can be use to make electricity to run our railroads,trucks, and passenger vehicles for 300 miles.
Honda Motor Company already has a fuel cell car in production and in use in California. They also have developed solar powered hydrogen fueling stations. Jamie Curtis (Actress from True Lies with Arnold Governor of California and actor) already has leased one of the new Honda Fuel Cell cars. She and a few other lucky folks will be driving around California and not using a drop of oil or gasoline to run her new fuel cell powered car.
The Military's of the world are now using Fuel Cell Technology to power their submarines. Submarines that are so quiet that even the US Navy can't find them in the ocean.
One Chinese fuel cell powered submarine surfaced in sight of the USS KITTY HAWK air craft carrier and our Navy didn't know it was there until it surfaced well within torpedo range of our Carrier. These new subs are a serious threat to our navy and our oil supply routes.
Germany almost cut off Britain from it's supplies during WWII. It the Germans has fuel cell powered Submarines that can travel 600 miles and stay under water for a month at a time they would have won WWII. Britain would have been isolated and the US troop transport ships would have been sunk before they ever delivered our troops and supplies to Britain.
The only reason we won the battle of the Atlantic was because the German Submarines ran on batteries and diesel engines that forced the subs to come to the surface at night to charge their batteries. This allowed our new radar to find the subs on the surface and to destroy them. But if the subs would have been able to stay under the water for 30 days the war outcome would have been much different. And I must throw in the ENIGMA coding machines and the fact that we captured one of these and were reading Hitlers messages to the wolfpaks. So we knew where they were and what they were ordered to do as soon as Hitlers Chief of the Sub fleet issued his orders to the wolfpaks.
My point is this. With Fuel Cell Technology the world won't need oil to drive our economy anymore. We can use the sunlight and fuel cells and to it a lot cheaper than using oil.
Bush's policy was to maintain the status quo for the last 8 years. He and Cheney are getting the last drops of money out of the oil industry before we switch to alternative and much cheaper energy resource that will be renewable energy.
The best thing about using fuel cells is that they use water to run and produce water as their byproduct. Fuel cells are the way to go.
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[QUOTE=roadrunner;333447]Moose what is food corn? Humans basically do not eat corn we feed it to livestock. When you produce ethanol you only lose a portion of the corn for feed stock. E]
Senior Member
[QUOTE=Moose1am;333470]Food corn is any corn or corn byproduct that is fed to animals. Humans are in the animal kingdom.
A corn based ingredient in a lot of foods is CORN SYRUP. It's found in a lot of our foods as a sweetener.
I would guess that the cost of corn syrup has increased over the last few years as compared to 5 years ago.
So humans eat a lot of corn products. When you eat your morning cereal you are eating a corn product as they use corn syrup to sweeten the cereal
Any food that's sweetened more than likely has corn syrup added into the mix.
And remember this. We feed corn to our cattle to help fatten them up. They don't get enough carbohydrates from grass so we have to feed them corn to get them ready for market. I took Animal Science at Purdue University during my Pre Veterinary Medicine training. I would never have taken Animal Science on my own but Veterinarians have to have this knowledge about the food that we feed our livestock.
So I know what the farmers feed to their live stock. Also being in an Agricultural Fraternity at Purdue I lived with 70 of the largest farm owners in the State and lived with several other Vet students in the frat house. I ate breakfast and dinner ever day with these guys and I learned a great deal about how farms work. AGR is the cream of the crop in Agriculture. Our frat brothers became the dean of agriculture at Purdue and one was the US Secretary of Agriculture for many years. Ever heard of Earl Butts? Rest in peace my friend.
Anyway you and I both eat a lot of beef, pork and chicken unless you belong to PETA and don't eat meat.
Ethanol is made from the starch or carbohydrates found in the corn kernel not the oil. So if they take the oil out we still loose the starches to ethanol production and those are lost.
If you take all the oil and starches out of the corn kernel all you have left is the fiber and while that's good for some things it will not put meat on a cow or chicken. Only Carbs and protein will do that.
Now a cow has four chambers in it's rumen. So the bacteria inside the cow can break down some of that fiber and utilize it. But it's lost most of it's nutritional value in the fermentation process when it's made into Ethanol.
We would be better off using SWITCH Grass to make ethanol than using corn. Switch grass can be harvested two or three times a growing season and it can grow on less fertile lands.
Ethanol used in gas at a concentration of less than 10% is OK by me. But when you use E 85 then you are putting a lot more ethanol into the gas. 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline from fossil fuels.
Do you know how many atoms of oxygen are on the ethanol molecule? =oh added to the carbon chain makes it an alcohol.
The US Agricultural program of paying farmers to not use land is a good thing. Land has to rest. Also the land that's not tilled can be use by the wildlife. Quail and pheasants as well as rabbits can use this idle land to reproduce their numbers. By not tilling the grassy areas along the ditches and creeks we give wildlife a protective corridor to live in. And by leaving grassy areas and small woody scrubs along the edges of the ditches we prevent the lost of top soil. Erosion is lessened and that helps stop the silting in of the ditches, creeks and rivers. It slows down the eutrophication process as well.
I heard the CEO of the oil company say that it would take ten years. Now you are talking about drilling off the coast right? I want to make sure that we are on the same page here and comparing apples to apples. I am talking about ten years to drill offshore. I'll stand by my ten year statement and I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I guess it depends on who we talk to. I have heard the 10 year time period for many years now.
Anyway I guess congress could rewrite the entire Clean Air Act which BTW was first put into law under Richard Nixon's Administration. Nixon was in office when the USEPA became part of the Executive Branch of the Federal Government.
Drilling for more oil is not going to lower the gas prices. I read on a web site about a giant oil field that's in the Northern Part of the Midwest. There are suppose to be billions of barrels of oil in this area. Why don't we drill here in Kansas or South Dakota and use that oil?
The oil companies have permits to drill in 68 MILLION acres of US Ground and are not using the permitted land to drill. Why? 68 Million acres is a lot of ground to explore. Why would they not utilize all that land? Why did they seek the permits if they were not going to use it?
Are they hording the oil that they already have just to make the price of oil go higher?
It's not like this has not been done in the past with other commodities like Diamonds. Why do you think that diamond ring costs so much? It's only a rock? But the De Beers Diamond Company hoards their diamonds and keeps the supply of Diamond low. This makes the Price higher. It's the same business model that I think the Oil Companies are using. Then they can blame their lack of drilling on Congress.
Well Congress is telling them to drill it or lose it. I think that is a wise choice by our congress. Congress is calling their bluff. If they don't start drilling on the 68 million acres they already have permits for they will loose those permits and they will be sold to someone else that will really use them
Even if we find oil that will last us another 100 years or so what will we do when our consumption of oil grows even faster. China is growing and they have a huge population. India also has a huge human population and they too are growing more modern. All the world is using more cars and trucks and burning more and more oil. It won't take very long to use up the new oil
What I think we need to do is look at our long term future not just the short term future. We need to develop energy sources that won't run out.
We can put more research in to solar panels. Just the other night I was watching NOVA and they did a show on solar panels. They are using Nano technology to build better and more efficient solar panels. These have microscopic raised volcano shaped structures that are capped with gold and they capture more sunlight and convert that into more electricity. These new solar panels are 3 x more efficient that the older panels. If these could be put on the market and sold in volumes they could help provide the USA with more electricity to power our homes, cars and factories.
This electrical power could be used to spit the water molecule and make Oxygen and Hydrogen gas. These gases can be put into containers and shipped around the area.
Fuel cells can be use to make electricity to run our railroads,trucks, and passenger vehicles for 300 miles.
Honda Motor Company already has a fuel cell car in production and in use in California. They also have developed solar powered hydrogen fueling stations. Jamie Curtis (Actress from True Lies with Arnold Governor of California and actor) already has leased one of the new Honda Fuel Cell cars. She and a few other lucky folks will be driving around California and not using a drop of oil or gasoline to run her new fuel cell powered car.
The Military's of the world are now using Fuel Cell Technology to power their submarines. Submarines that are so quiet that even the US Navy can't find them in the ocean.
One Chinese fuel cell powered submarine surfaced in sight of the USS KITTY HAWK air craft carrier and our Navy didn't know it was there until it surfaced well within torpedo range of our Carrier. These new subs are a serious threat to our navy and our oil supply routes.
Germany almost cut off Britain from it's supplies during WWII. It the Germans has fuel cell powered Submarines that can travel 600 miles and stay under water for a month at a time they would have won WWII. Britain would have been isolated and the US troop transport ships would have been sunk before they ever delivered our troops and supplies to Britain.
The only reason we won the battle of the Atlantic was because the German Submarines ran on batteries and diesel engines that forced the subs to come to the surface at night to charge their batteries. This allowed our new radar to find the subs on the surface and to destroy them. But if the subs would have been able to stay under the water for 30 days the war outcome would have been much different. And I must throw in the ENIGMA coding machines and the fact that we captured one of these and were reading Hitlers messages to the wolfpaks. So we knew where they were and what they were ordered to do as soon as Hitlers Chief of the Sub fleet issued his orders to the wolfpaks.
My point is this. With Fuel Cell Technology the world won't need oil to drive our economy anymore. We can use the sunlight and fuel cells and to it a lot cheaper than using oil.
Bush's policy was to maintain the status quo for the last 8 years. He and Cheney are getting the last drops of money out of the oil industry before we switch to alternative and much cheaper energy resource that will be renewable energy.
The best thing about using fuel cells is that they use water to run and produce water as their byproduct. Fuel cells are the way to go.
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Moose, What's wrong, wife won't let you talk?
We have all read about alternative fuel or heard about it on TV and don't need further definition. Our understanding of the process is sufficient.
While I know you are "proud" you attended Purdue University, there are others of us who also attended college.....including me. It doesn't take a person with a lot of book learnin' to be one of the best educated among us; it just takes plenty of good old common sense.
Senior Member
Carter was smarter than your average GOP stalwart supporter.
Carter was ahead of his time and trying to lead a the uneducated masses who refuse to give up their way of life.
Carter was supporting the Synfuels which would have used coal to make oil. Germany did that near the end of WWII. South African used synfuels to make coal into oil back in 1980.
It was the GOP President Reagan that killed the Synfuel Plants in Western KY. By not going with the synfuel plants we set ourselves up to be black mailed again and again by Iran and OPEC.
Today thanks to our lack of planning over the last 7.5 years we are still in the same situation.
Senior Member
Ha ha you sir are amazing! There is no other word but amazing.
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