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Senior Member
Don is right. NOW 79% of Americans polled wants drilling to start today or sooner. The Liberal Dems better get off their high horse or come election day they better be packing their bags and go back to being blood sucking lawyers.Originally Posted by DJD
Super Moderator
A few other things that you might want to consider. First, oil companies already have leases to many millions of acres of land that they are NOT drilling right now. WHY? How is the off-shore oil any better? Second, you do realize that we EXPORT a good deal of oil and refined gas that we drill in the US. Again, why? If the supply and demand was so great here, shouldn't that oil/gas be sold here? Sorry, but I just don't buy the republican "drill, drill, and drill some more" energy policy. If we really want to do something, we should be getting serious about alternative fuel sources now. Just finding additional ways to keep us on the oil teet is not helping us one bit.
Andrew
Senior Member
Re: Offshore drilling = lower prices? Maybe, maybe not
Andrew my ole buddy ole pal, fishing friend ect. ect., I too agree that alternative fuels are the real answer, however sitting on our hands doing absolutely nothing sure as heck ain't working either. I've always thought a little bit of something beats a whole lot of nothing. So what you are saying is basically do nothing until some Eienstein figures out a way for us to go 500 miles ona space age battery or something. We need something NOW to shake up the greedy oil tycoons and these line their pocket speculators, Just my very humble opinion. Oh yea I'll still fish with ya even though you are liberal, lol.
Super Moderator
I seem to remember you agreeing with a lot of what I said while fishing (non-fishing stuff), does that make you a liberal too?? lol :-) btw, want to give them Hybrids another shot this weekend? Third times a charm and all!
DJD, I'll dig up the link and get back with you on that one. Thanks for the other info.
Andrew
Senior Member
Re: Offshore drilling = lower prices? Maybe, maybe not
You know I do still agree with you on alot of stuff and all I'm saying is if we at least try to do something now maybe it will help curtail these crazy prices at the pump. I guess it would be like in a blow up raft in the middle of the ocean with a small hole in it. You know that holding your finger over it or placing chewing gum over it is only prolonging the inevitible which is sinking, but you would still do it..... RIGHT??? I personally feel a huge problem right now is these mass commidity speculators that are screaming FIRE every time you turn around. BTW you don't think those same speculators are in anyway linked to big Oil do you, lamol. As far as fishing goes I'll call you or e-mail you I don't think I can go this Saturday, besides we caught the only two hybrids left in Guist Creek anyway, lol.
Super Moderator
Ok, lunch time, I have a few minutes to respond.
DJD "... only to be stopped by Florida politics ..."
Wasn't Jeb Bush a part of that? I know Bush I banned off-shore drilling. Man, W is going to take a beating at the next family get together! lol!
"...I don't remember hearing how he was going to cut spending. Anyone else hear what he plans on doing to cut spending?? Maybe I dozed off and didn't hear how...."
May be he is borrowing the Bush plan, spend now, let your kids and grandkids pay for it later ;-) The cutting spending part I've heard Obama talk about before. Figures if we get out of Iraq we'll save those billions and use them for other things. I'm not convinced that he can get us out of Iraq as quick as he wants. However, with the Iragis suggesting a timetable for US withdrawl, who knows. I would like to see us out of Iraq, but we also have to make sure the job there is actually done first.
As for the US exporting oil/gas:
"A record 1.6 million barrels a day in U.S. refined petroleum products were exported during the first four months of this year, up 33 percent from 1.2 million barrels a day over the same period in 2007. Shipments this February topped 1.8 million barrels a day for the first time during any month, according to final numbers from the Energy Department."
Full story at:
http://www.forbes.com/reuters/feeds/reuters/2008/07/03/2008-07-03T184028Z_01_N02435397_RTRIDST_0_USA-OIL-EXPORTS-ANALYSIS.html
One of the things that they point out is that in reality, it may be more economical to export gulf oil to South America and import foriegn oil to the NE US.
In any case, I don't see destroying the US environment just to supply others with oil/gas. That does not benifit the US as a whole. While there is all this talk of more drilling, there is no guarentee that the US will see any of that oil. The only way that we could guarentee that oil would be reaching US customers would be through some type of socialist laws. I'm pretty sure neither of us wants that!
Bobby Hendrick "... and I blame 90% of our mess on these that we keep electing year after year. In order for this mess to be righted we need to clean up DC starting from the bottom up. Both Parties. "
RoadToad "... Can we please stop blaming "liberal Dems" or "neocons" for our problems, and start working together on solutions?"
Agree 100%. If the bums are not doing what we elected them to do, fire them!!! Also agree that if we can put a man on the moon, we can come up with a viable alternive energy source(s). Probably have them already, just need a way to implement/distribute it to the country. This is something that we all need to work on, together. In my opinion, this is another problem that we face today. The partisonship in the country is growing. There is no need for that. We are all Americans, and, for the most part, all have very similar opinions on the important things (life, liberty, persute of happiness). Partisonship is a political tool used to show that the other party ***** worse than our party, so keep voting for us. Nah, they all ****, fire them.
MHAll "Andrew my ole buddy ole pal, fishing friend ect. ect., I too agree that alternative fuels are the real answer, however sitting on our hands doing absolutely nothing sure as heck ain't working either. I've always thought a little bit of something beats a whole lot of nothing. So what you are saying is basically do nothing until some Eienstein figures out a way for us to go 500 miles ona space age battery or something. We need something NOW to shake up the greedy oil tycoons and these line their pocket speculators, Just my very humble opinion. Oh yea I'll still fish with ya even though you are liberal, lol."
Here is the problem, at least how I see it. We talk about off-shore drilling, drilling in ANWARE, etc. However, NONE of that will reach us for at least 5-10 years. Thats if we do not export it elsewhere. Rather than shooting for 5-10 years to keep us dependant on oil, why not shoot for that 5-10 years for those alternative fuel sources to be in use? This is certainly not sitting on our hands, its shooting for the long-term solution. The continued drilling just keeps us dependant on the oil rather than search for other solutions rather than for keeping us in the mess we are in. Its only a matter of time before all of the oil is gone. Rather than wait until the last minute to do something, lets get serious about doing something now. I know its not all about supply and demand. After all, the demand is dropping. Oh, and don't worry, I'll still be happy to chase those two hybrids with you anytime :-)
Andrew
Senior Member
Just watched Glenn Beck on Headline News and he explained and gave examples of why the land that has been leased is not producing. He said that once they even find oil (which they are having a hard time doing) they have to deal with the special interest groups and local governments to gain access to the oil or natural gas. Gave an example of drilling for natural gas off of Florida that took years and millions of dollars to find only to be stopped by Florida politics and then years later they denied Chevron the ability to get the gas and removed Chevrons lease.
Exporting oil? That's pretty counter productive. Where did you find that info?
Apparently the "OCS" has oil (not sure how they know) while the leased land is barren at best. I'm not sure how true all this is but it's a start in trying to understand what's going on. Who knows???
Senior Member
It's not just Democrats, aka "liberal Dems," who are at a crossroads; it's the nation as a whole. In case you forgot, the executive order that Dubya just lifted was imposed by his father. I repeat, the executive order banning offshore drilling, which President Bush just lifted, was imposed by none other than his father, then President George H. W. Bush. Was HE a "liberal Dem?" Senator McCain was originally opposed to lifting it, until he flip-flopped. Is HE a "liberal Dem?" Former Florida Governor Jeb Bush (Dubya's brother) fought long and hard against drilling off of Florida's coastline. Is HE a "liberal Dem?" Can we please stop blaming "liberal Dems" or "neocons" for our problems, and start working together on solutions?
Senior Member
I agree about working together. You are also right on your accounts of what sanctions had been in place. However if you check the voting records over the last several years you will see the Dem congress consistantly votes against drilling or almost anything they feel would impact the environment. In almost every case you will find that wall they throw up every time it's even brought up for discussion.
Senior Member
I fwe can put men on the moon, if we really did, and into space, then we should be able to do something about or energy problems. This is a great disscusion, as all of us seem to be on track with this, both repubs and dems, on this board, see if this bunch can start agreeing to somethins then maybe congress and our elected officials need to start looking at this board. This issue does not need to be a political one, as both parties in DC are making it, and I agree that both are to blame, but an issue for the people, as this crisis is affecting everyone in somway, finacially, physcally and mentally. It is not a W's fault, nor Clintons or W sr it falls manily on our elected Congress and Rep's and Senete, those are the one's that have held up everything and I blame 90% of our mess on these that we keep electing year after year. In order for this mess to be righted we need to clean up DC starting from the bottom up. Both Parties.
Senior Member
I don't think we will ever get the politics out of this discussion because it's always about power and proving who is right and who is wrong. Any topic of debate with the politicians always goes into the gutter because the power struggle rises to the top. Lies, slander, misleading info backed by bogus studies always seems to be the norm in the debates. Just wait and watch the Presidential debates.
We the people have lost and they the powerful have become out of touch. I listened to Obama at lunch and he's talking about re-investing into america and then talking about giving financial support to Pakistan for ten years if they do what we say. What? I don't remember hearing how he was going to cut spending. Anyone else hear what he plans on doing to cut spending?? Maybe I dozed off and didn't hear how. I know he talked about ramping up more troops into Afganistan (agreed) and having an exit strategy for Iraq with more troops. Spending billions on alternative fuel but were was spending cuts?
Didn't get to hear from McCain yet.
Senior Member
We need to drill off shore this is where the great oil fields are located. We can be producing oil in 1 1/2 years. We also need to produce the oil shale regions in the west. This oil independence will stop the speculation almost immediately. When we talk off shore we are talking fifty miles off shore you will not even know they are there except when you run out there to fish around them.
50 miles is international waters and Russia has plans to drill off our shores and you can not stop them unless we drill first. We need to do this now but continue to develop alternative sources. High cost of fuel is what is driving your cost of food not the new ethanol plants. Think of the added cost of planting and harvesting, then transporting it to market then to the mill for grinding into flower then transporting it to the baker then transporting to warehouse then distribution to the grocery store. Every thing you buy is getting hit buy higher fuel cost.
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