New painted plane

[Devils Horse]

Gotcha. Sorry for the misinterpret, but the 4 of them laughing about any terrorist attack and saying we deserved it would elicit the same reaction far as I'm concerned. Hard to yuck it up with a boot lodged in the main vent.

I really am a peaceable and pretty good guy. I go out of my way not to hurt anyone, and try to treat others with tolerance and respect regardless of their skin color. But the line has to be drawn somewhere. Coddling and embracing a group of people sworn to our destruction, and who've been purposely slaughtering innocent people all over the globe for the last 35 years is well across it. Sorry, that's for kinder, gentler, less ignorant people than me.

[Grumpy]

Devils Horse, I understand (and agree with) what you are talking about when you say they have been slaughtering innocent people for the last 35 years, but I would like to point out that the slaughter of innocents has been going on for much longer than that. From what I have read in several difference sources, prior to his death in 632 A.D., Mohammed instructed his Muslem followers to convert everyone in the world to Islam. More specifically, he is purported to have said: 'Comvert them or kill them!"

The World is now actually seeing a very great resurgence of Islam and its attempt to convert everyone to its beliefs. That is hardly what I would call "a peaceful religion".

Grumpy

[Col Forbin]

There is an extremely small percentage of muslims that are terroist. Several of your opinions that all muslims have the potential to do terroist acts is the definition of prejudice. Tim Mcvey drove a pick up truck, does that mean I should hate the bulk of you for driving those. It is silly to think that just because someone is a muslim, that they wish for america to fall. Granted there are some bad muslims, just as bad christians.

[Grumpy]

Col Forbin, that is what Chamberlain said about the Nazis--to paraphrase:: oh its just of few of the Germans that feel that way, most of the Germas are really peace loving people!! We'll just talk with them and this will soon be over.

Yeah, and we all know how that ended.

Grumpy

[Bobby Headrick]

One thing to clear up for a previous post on this thread. After the Towers fell one plane was allowed to leave the US, it was a plane carrying Bin Ladens family, that was the only plane in the air that day. So who are the terroists,Bin Ladens family is Saudi and were allowed to leave, that was Pres Bush's call. Also I was on a plane the two days before 9/11 coming from Calgary to Chicigo, on that plane were 5 middle easteren men who were sitting as follows 2 in first class, one was in the first row the other in the last row between 1st and 2Nd class, I was in 1st class. the other 3 were as follows, one next to door in the asile seat right past the door between 1st and 2nd, one in the middle on an asile seat next to the escape door and the last in the very last asile seat in the rear. I did not relize what was going on but after they showed on the news how the ones who did the deed were set up it made me wonder, did I just miss being a victim or was this a test run. We landed and returned home 09/10/2001. Also they held up all flights out of Ohare and dead headed most out of the airport the night before we left. Did they know something then. Makes me wonder.

[Devils Horse]

That was a tough time for me Bobby. I swore to myself that if anything happened during the flight I'd be killed attacking rather than ride the plane down under their thumb. Sounds dramatic maybe, but if you were traveling back then it was something to think about. I still fly quite a bit, and still have that mindset to this day. I take note of every middle easterner I see on the plane.

Col, you insist on defending a culture who oppresses women cruelly as a matter of course, teaches hate and death from childhood on, believes that to kill others in the name of your god gets you a free ticket to heaven with 40 virgins waiting for you. (Now I'd settle for 20 experienced hookers, but that's just me)

What koolaid you been drinking brother? This is not isolated portions of the culture in the middle east, it's the majority. When some of our people get blown up, all those thousands of people I see on the news screen celebrating and burning US flags are just a few isolated Muslims? Countries supporting and producing animals who've been slaughtering innocent people since before you were born is just a few bad ones? For crying out loud, comparing Muslims to McVey is one of the silliest comments I've ever heard. And you had the nerve to call my comments absurd...good grief.

I don't want this country to become like Israel or Beirut where cars exploding outside cafes are commonplace. Who's doing the bombing? Why the few isolated small minority of your buddies, that's who. It danged sure ain't the Mcveys of the world.

Muslims (Only small isolated numbers of them of course) have terrorized the entire civilized world since I can remember, and you want to embrace them right into our country.

And people like you call people like me ignorant. Amazing...absolutely amazing.

[Col Forbin]

When you harbor negative views on an entire group of people based on ethnicity - you are a racist. Plain and simple, there is no way of sugar coating it. There are bad people in this world of all backgrounds. Maybe we should start focusing on understanding other cultures and learning from them, rather than trying to make them all look and act like what we see as right.

[Bobby Headrick]

Yes it was tough for me and my fiance also. She lost her job due to 9/11. She was a Corp Travel excutive, her clients were some of the most powerful and prestigos men in the US. She was based out of Houston Tx, and her clients were all BIG business men. I cannot name the co's she handled but I can say that if some knew what I know about Bush and Cheny and their Texas/big business pals then you would not support him. Cannot say any more. But we went from almost 100K a yr to now 48K combined due to the terrosits from SAudie Arabia. I am not pregitous but after what I experenced that day at Ohare int airport made me afraid, I was on an American airlines flight, full of fuel and passed the Sears tower 3 times before landing, by the way the Sears towers were also on the hit list, but I think due to severe weather in the area that day that they might have had to pospone their attack. It makes me wonder. These 5 guys were all in the lobby together but then they sat sept. One was right outside the cabin door, The only reason I watched them was that they were acting strange, but after the attack I put two and two together. Whew it was close. After working in corrections for 5 yrs I tend to pick up on things that are not koshar, these dudes just were that. Thanks Devil Horse, but I do not fly no more and won't, that was just too close.

[Devils Horse]

Can't blame you Bobby I wouldn't mind staying grounded myself, but that ain't in the cards for me yet.

Okay, Col good enough, I'll assume you're ready to take the gloves off.

Thanks for the lecture and oversimplified definition of the label you've hung on me. Now I'll save the sugar and say this:

When you're so blinded by naivete and empty idealism you can't see the obvious in front of you--you are a fool. If you can defend and embrace a culture of oppression and murder there's just no other way to put it. Plain and simple.