Teaching to the Test

[Grumpy]

Thanks for the information Guys. I think I understand your meanings but I am still not sure that "teaching to the test" is a bad idea.

Either way, I don't think that today's kids are getting a REAL EDUCATION and I feel something more must be done AND I DON'T MEAN BY THE GOVERNMENT. It does seem to me that our education system(s) is DUMBING DOWN the students, from pre-school through College Graduate School. And don't try to blame NO CHILD LEFT BEHING because that program was instituted to try to overcome the problems in the education system that were evident and existing long before that progrom started.

I really don't understand why with all of the supposed advancements in educatiion, people are graduating from High School and College and still can't read & write and can't do simple math, such as making change at a cash register (on either side of the cash register). The education of children now starts in DAY CARE with pre-pre-pre-Kindergarten and at an early age they begin using Computer education programs which progress and advance all the way through High School and College, yet, in my opinion, a great many of the students that are graduating are DUMBER THAN ROCKS.

Not only are they not able to do reading, writing and 'rithmatic, the don't seem to be able to think and definately can't carry on a decent coversation.

I am not looking for an answer, I just wanted to vent about what I see is a big problem for our country.

Grumpy

[bassin_bug]

On another thread Col Forbin wrote a lot of opinions and recommendations about the educational system. He said, "as far as "dumbing" down the standards - that could not be farther from the truth." WRONG, WRONG, and wrong again. In the State of Alabama it has already happened and the blacks used the "No Child Left Behind" program to completely destroy what it was meant to accomplish.

I want to make it clear that I am not racist but lets call a 'spade' a spade. First they demanded "equality" in numbers in the black-white ratio in the larger high schools. Those requests were met and students were bused from their own community to the larger school. Then comes the cry, "No Student Left Behind" is too hard for black kids; they can't learn all this hard stuff." Even the black educators went to the Board of Education meetings and to the State Board of Education. As a result the programs were dumbed down, the ghetto slang, lingo, jive language also had to be accepted. As a result the white children weren't learning anything but "dey jes ain't doin nuttin like it usta be, ya know how dat are. We axed em ta ease up and deys don't lissen."

As a result of the dumbing down, two private schools are in the county and are self-supporting. They absolutely refuse to take county, state, or federal monies in order to keep the government out and the schools can hold to a higher standard of education. Call it racist or whatever, but the bottom line is that blacks and Mexicans are not accepted and there is no bullsheet about it. Those schools are for education and students have to meet stringent requirements. The parents pay plenty for the children to be educated but it is working with astronomical success. Not one of them has ever been rejected by a University.

It's a fallacy to believe you can attend all the PTA-PTO meetings and yap a better standard of education into existence. Same with the county and State Boards of Education. They are dancing to the tune of the whining blacks so they can keep their job as a member of the BOE. It doesn't take much conversation with one of them to realize they just don't get the importance of quality education.

Most of the teachers I know spend more time standing around in the teachers lounge, arms folded, trying to look like Nancy Pelosi and don't give a hoot in Hades what the students are doing while they are out of the classroom.

Again I want to make it clear that I'm not a racist but I call it as I see it and I'm a straight shooter when it comes to education. I received a note from a college student who is graduating in May and the last sentence said, "I have to go now; have to run some aarunds." Graduating from college and can't even spell errands! It's easy to recognize she didn't graduate from one of the private schools and I'm anxious to know which law firm will be hiring her.

[kygorski]

My first wife had 12 yrs of parochial schooling. My children only had 8yrs of parochial education. they are both college grads, both with high honors, this couldn't have happened at a public school in the community they lived in.My son is now a special ed teacher, and he says he is mandatwed to teach to the test.Our public schools are doing the job they could because of politics, both federal and local standardsare used to maximize scores, and to ghell with education,So our private ivy league schools are the standard? most of CEOs with MBAs came from there, what did they accomplish with that "gold standard" education?No ethics, no moral standards, just the bottom line.Lately that bottom line has been the home to the bottom feeders of our society.

[DJD]

On another thread Col Forbin wrote a lot of opinions and recommendations about the educational system. He said, "as far as "dumbing" down the standards - that could not be farther from the truth." WRONG, WRONG, and wrong again. In the State of Alabama it has already happened and the blacks used the "No Child Left Behind" program to completely destroy what it was meant to accomplish.

I want to make it clear that I am not racist but lets call a 'spade' a spade. First they demanded "equality" in numbers in the black-white ratio in the larger high schools. Those requests were met and students were bused from their own community to the larger school. Then comes the cry, "No Student Left Behind" is too hard for black kids; they can't learn all this hard stuff." Even the black educators went to the Board of Education meetings and to the State Board of Education. As a result the programs were dumbed down, the ghetto slang, lingo, jive language also had to be accepted. As a result the white children weren't learning anything but "dey jes ain't doin nuttin like it usta be, ya know how dat are. We axed em ta ease up and deys don't lissen."

As a result of the dumbing down, two private schools are in the county and are self-supporting. They absolutely refuse to take county, state, or federal monies in order to keep the government out and the schools can hold to a higher standard of education. Call it racist or whatever, but the bottom line is that blacks and Mexicans are not accepted and there is no bullsheet about it. Those schools are for education and students have to meet stringent requirements. The parents pay plenty for the children to be educated but it is working with astronomical success. Not one of them has ever been rejected by a University.

It's a fallacy to believe you can attend all the PTA-PTO meetings and yap a better standard of education into existence. Same with the county and State Boards of Education. They are dancing to the tune of the whining blacks so they can keep their job as a member of the BOE. It doesn't take much conversation with one of them to realize they just don't get the importance of quality education.

Most of the teachers I know spend more time standing around in the teachers lounge, arms folded, trying to look like Nancy Pelosi and don't give a hoot in Hades what the students are doing while they are out of the classroom.

Again I want to make it clear that I'm not a racist but I call it as I see it and I'm a straight shooter when it comes to education. I received a note from a college student who is graduating in May and the last sentence said, "I have to go now; have to run some aarunds." Graduating from college and can't even spell errands! It's easy to recognize she didn't graduate from one of the private schools and I'm anxious to know which law firm will be hiring her.

I agree and it's sad that you have to be on the defense about being a racist. The whole country has that mind set now.
My sister teaches 3rd grade in Florida and even at that grade they deal with a different standard for kids who cannot communicate properly in english. Or have a social excuse for their attendance record, attitude or lack of respect. The whole class suffers but that's the way it is.....

[Col Forbin]

Most of the teachers I know spend more time standing around in the teachers lounge, arms folded, trying to look like Nancy Pelosi and don't give a hoot in Hades what the students are doing while they are out of the classroom.

Couldn't be farther from the truth - or you need to get out and meet some teachers. I've never worked in a school with a lounge. Wouldn't go in it if I had one, always too busy, or on here!!! LOL

[GeoFisher]

Couldn't be farther from the truth - or you need to get out and meet some teachers. I've never worked in a school with a lounge. Wouldn't go in it if I had one, always too busy, or on here!!! LOL

Every school I went to had a lounge..............and EVERY school my kids have been to have a lounge.

AND Col, there are more teachers like those described by bassin bug than the ones you describe.......

While I'm not in education, I've been to enough open houses, PTO meetings, etc, etc, with both of my daughters to know the education system in this country is SEVERELY corrupted by NIM-WIT LIBERALS.

Later,

Geo

[Col Forbin]

Every school I went to had a lounge..............and EVERY school my kids have been to have a lounge.

AND Col, there are more teachers like those described by bassin bug than the ones you describe.......

While I'm not in education, I've been to enough open houses, PTO meetings, etc, etc, with both of my daughters to know the education system in this country is SEVERELY corrupted by NIM-WIT LIBERALS.

Later,

Geo

It's funny how you can go to a few after school get togethers and become an expert on the education system. I guess if I get my oil changed enough, I am a mechanic. I really take offense to this. PTO has little impact on what we do in school - it has no authority for any school decisions - and therefore reflect nothing that goes on in school, open houses are dog and pony shows. The truth is there are more great teachers than bad ones. Every school I have been in, observed, or worked in, no longer has a lounge - they have a copy room, and that is it.

If I wanted advice on education, I would ask someone that is involved in education. I have spent the last 10 last ten years working directly in school systems, and have served on state and national level committees to improve education - but somehow any thing I say on this topic, you will discredit.

[apb]

It's funny how you can go to a few after school get togethers and become an expert on the education system. ....

I also find it somewhat humorous that a number of our right leaning folks are complaining about a system (no child left behind) that was put in place by a republican admin and wanting the lefties to fix it for them.

Been a long while since I was in school, but I do not recall many, if any, teachers spending more time in the lounge than teaching. I also seem to remember a number of them going out of their way to encourage and help out some of the slower students or give some additional work to more gifted students to keep them from getting bored.

I'll second some of the other comments here, classes should not be dumbed down. I also believe that students learning the materials rather than just trying to pass a test is what is important.

Sorry bug, but some of that does come across as racist.

Andrew

[MsgMills]

I think the way the kids are taught is a travesty to their education. If a child has a question about the Civil War and the question is not on the test the Teacher can't answer the question cause it ain't on the test. Now how does the child learn the answer if the teacher can't tell them. It's up to the parent and if the parent can't tell them then I guess the kid looks the answer up on the internet....

[Dave Stewart]

Teaching to the test has the same effect that letting kids bring calculators to school and use the internet to pledgerize instead of do their research in the library...gets them grades but doesn't teach them anything about how to reason and think for themselves. Make them learn the basics and learn how to reason for themselves and they will excell later when they learn how to use the "tools" to prove their theories instead of using the "tools" to think for them.

[Col Forbin]

I can say that there has been some positive changes lately. 11th grade students are now required to take the ACT and that score is configured into school accountability. At least it could benefit them later if they choose to pursue college, and it requires some higher level thought process, than your typical tests. The writing portfolios are to encourage applied analysis of concepts, however, the scoring of those are strictly subjective - so teachers do teach strategies that will encourage higher scores, rather than higher levels of thinking.

The Ky house voted yesterday to do away with the current CATS testing so it could be re-designed to assess a wholistic curriculum, rather than be the driving force behind the curriculum - we'll have to wait and see how that goes. The good news behind this, is that state level legislation is starting to realize the need for school accountability reform, so we are at least being listened to.

Hopefully these reforms will not really bring about change, rather get back to the root of what education is all about - teaching kids - not tests.

I am currently working in special education for student with moderate to severe disabilities. I love this for two reasons. One, is the kids - they make my day, and I enjoy every second of it. Two is stricly individualized instruction. I create a sepatrate curriculum for each and every student based on their specific needs. I still teach to the test, however, I design the test and the curriculum.

[GeoFisher]

You know.........I've got to back up a little about my GRIPING with public education...........No ONE kill me please........

Col works in a state where they passed some serious education reform measures 10 years ago........KY with KERA, etc,, etc, etc has made some serious strides in closing the gap in education.........

ON the other hand, I live in Indiana, where education still is the BOTTOM of the HEAP. Col, maybe you need to visit Indy with some of the ideas that have WORKED in KY.

It won't help my kids, but maybe somewhere else down the line, it can help.

We need to educate MUCH more effectively.

Thanks,

Geo