Teaching to the Test

[GeoFisher]

Couldn't be farther from the truth - or you need to get out and meet some teachers. I've never worked in a school with a lounge. Wouldn't go in it if I had one, always too busy, or on here!!! LOL

Every school I went to had a lounge..............and EVERY school my kids have been to have a lounge.

AND Col, there are more teachers like those described by bassin bug than the ones you describe.......

While I'm not in education, I've been to enough open houses, PTO meetings, etc, etc, with both of my daughters to know the education system in this country is SEVERELY corrupted by NIM-WIT LIBERALS.

Later,

Geo

[Col Forbin]

Every school I went to had a lounge..............and EVERY school my kids have been to have a lounge.

AND Col, there are more teachers like those described by bassin bug than the ones you describe.......

While I'm not in education, I've been to enough open houses, PTO meetings, etc, etc, with both of my daughters to know the education system in this country is SEVERELY corrupted by NIM-WIT LIBERALS.

Later,

Geo

It's funny how you can go to a few after school get togethers and become an expert on the education system. I guess if I get my oil changed enough, I am a mechanic. I really take offense to this. PTO has little impact on what we do in school - it has no authority for any school decisions - and therefore reflect nothing that goes on in school, open houses are dog and pony shows. The truth is there are more great teachers than bad ones. Every school I have been in, observed, or worked in, no longer has a lounge - they have a copy room, and that is it.

If I wanted advice on education, I would ask someone that is involved in education. I have spent the last 10 last ten years working directly in school systems, and have served on state and national level committees to improve education - but somehow any thing I say on this topic, you will discredit.

[apb]

It's funny how you can go to a few after school get togethers and become an expert on the education system. ....

I also find it somewhat humorous that a number of our right leaning folks are complaining about a system (no child left behind) that was put in place by a republican admin and wanting the lefties to fix it for them.

Been a long while since I was in school, but I do not recall many, if any, teachers spending more time in the lounge than teaching. I also seem to remember a number of them going out of their way to encourage and help out some of the slower students or give some additional work to more gifted students to keep them from getting bored.

I'll second some of the other comments here, classes should not be dumbed down. I also believe that students learning the materials rather than just trying to pass a test is what is important.

Sorry bug, but some of that does come across as racist.

Andrew

[MsgMills]

I think the way the kids are taught is a travesty to their education. If a child has a question about the Civil War and the question is not on the test the Teacher can't answer the question cause it ain't on the test. Now how does the child learn the answer if the teacher can't tell them. It's up to the parent and if the parent can't tell them then I guess the kid looks the answer up on the internet....

[Dave Stewart]

Teaching to the test has the same effect that letting kids bring calculators to school and use the internet to pledgerize instead of do their research in the library...gets them grades but doesn't teach them anything about how to reason and think for themselves. Make them learn the basics and learn how to reason for themselves and they will excell later when they learn how to use the "tools" to prove their theories instead of using the "tools" to think for them.

[Col Forbin]

I can say that there has been some positive changes lately. 11th grade students are now required to take the ACT and that score is configured into school accountability. At least it could benefit them later if they choose to pursue college, and it requires some higher level thought process, than your typical tests. The writing portfolios are to encourage applied analysis of concepts, however, the scoring of those are strictly subjective - so teachers do teach strategies that will encourage higher scores, rather than higher levels of thinking.

The Ky house voted yesterday to do away with the current CATS testing so it could be re-designed to assess a wholistic curriculum, rather than be the driving force behind the curriculum - we'll have to wait and see how that goes. The good news behind this, is that state level legislation is starting to realize the need for school accountability reform, so we are at least being listened to.

Hopefully these reforms will not really bring about change, rather get back to the root of what education is all about - teaching kids - not tests.

I am currently working in special education for student with moderate to severe disabilities. I love this for two reasons. One, is the kids - they make my day, and I enjoy every second of it. Two is stricly individualized instruction. I create a sepatrate curriculum for each and every student based on their specific needs. I still teach to the test, however, I design the test and the curriculum.

[GeoFisher]

You know.........I've got to back up a little about my GRIPING with public education...........No ONE kill me please........

Col works in a state where they passed some serious education reform measures 10 years ago........KY with KERA, etc,, etc, etc has made some serious strides in closing the gap in education.........

ON the other hand, I live in Indiana, where education still is the BOTTOM of the HEAP. Col, maybe you need to visit Indy with some of the ideas that have WORKED in KY.

It won't help my kids, but maybe somewhere else down the line, it can help.

We need to educate MUCH more effectively.

Thanks,

Geo

[GeoFisher]

It's funny how you can go to a few after school get togethers and become an expert on the education system. I guess if I get my oil changed enough, I am a mechanic. I really take offense to this. PTO has little impact on what we do in school - it has no authority for any school decisions - and therefore reflect nothing that goes on in school, open houses are dog and pony shows. The truth is there are more great teachers than bad ones. Every school I have been in, observed, or worked in, no longer has a lounge - they have a copy room, and that is it.

If I wanted advice on education, I would ask someone that is involved in education. I have spent the last 10 last ten years working directly in school systems, and have served on state and national level committees to improve education - but somehow any thing I say on this topic, you will discredit.

OK.........how about being friends with Tony Bennett, the new State Super in Indiana, or having a GREAT canoeing buddy, who I spent the weekend with a couple weeks ago.......WHO was a senior member of the LAST State Admin.

Dude..........take offense as MUCH as you want. My thoughts on education have been developed over YEARS........a LOT of YEARS. I've seen some good teachers, and some HORRIBLE teachers........And I saw my own share of some of the most LIBERAL NARROW MINDED morons on this planet...........

You're never going to convince me of your "perfect picture world".

First you BITCH about people not being involved, and when someone posts about BEING INVOLVED, you basically call them an idiot...........you cannot have it both ways.

Finally.......I've seen the education system FIRST hand through my kids..........and let me tell you.....it *****..........and ***** BAD.

If we are so good a education, why do we lag behind India, Japan, Korea, China, etc, etc. AND dont' tell me we don't. Our Technical, BioMedical, Mechanical, Electrical, and just about every other industry is LOADED with foreign talent, because the are better educated. I hire guys from India who attended a "basic" technical school that is BETTER than our BEST technical schools.

Understand that we BETTER get start being serious about education........talking about it, or underfunding it, or leaving TENURED teachers in their warm and fuzzy jobs is NOT the WAY.

Later,

Geo

[Col Forbin]

Once again you read what you want and ignore what you want. I mentioned more appropriate ways to get involved than what you mentioned - and you told me that was useless. Someone asks for information on education - I am an expert educator - and somehow my advice is wrong. I have written effective curriculum mapping to help bring schools out of crisis areas, but according to you, I don't know what I am talking about. I have students that scored in the 99th percentile on their assessments when compared to the National average. I am currently finishing Masters number 2 relating specifically to educational improvemnts. But somehow everything I say on the issue is wrong in your head. Open your eyes Geo - you are not an expert on every issue, no matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise.

I never once called anyone an idiot for anything - that would be you putting words in my mouth. I just mentioned that if you are basing your knowledge of the education system of a few PTO meetings, or open houses, you are only seeing a small portion of the system. I am all for any involvement in the schools at any level, but if you want to take an active role in it, you need to step it up to next level, rather than complaining about what little you see. Devil's Horse mentioned his involvement, and that is exactly what I was talking about. Spend some time in school - during school and contribute to the process. Go to board meetings and become a part of the system rather than being part of the problem and complain about how bad teachers are.

You can attack me personally all you want - I don't care, but I get highly offended when you tell me I know little about my profession. The only reason I am so touchy about this issue, is that I am passionate about my job - I love every minute of it, and take pride in excelling professionally. The problems in education is not a conservative/liberal issue (that seems to be only your problem, as you only seem to see in black and white, conservative vs. liberal).

[GeoFisher]

I have no doubt that you are passionate about what you do, and are more than likely BETTER that most of the teachers I've ran into.......

Over the past 12 years, I can point out about 20 teachers out of oh say 100 hundred that were actuallly EFFECTIVE at teaching the classwork.

I've been to more school board meetings, ONE on ONE's with the principal (again a GOOD FRIEND), school functions, EVERY drama event, EVERY orchestra event, MOST basketball games, etc, etc.........So.....again, I'm probably more involved than MOST.

I never did ONCE attack you personally......

A question..........do you have kids, and are they in school? I ask, because most of my involvement with the local school system is through my kids.....and what I've seen, it was NOT very good.

I wish 12 years ago.......I had the money to afford private school, because THAT is where my daughters would have been.

I'm done with this............just as you are passionate about how GOOD things are I'm equally passionate about how BAD things are......

I think we both agree.......you CANNOT throw money at a bad system. Get rid of the BAD apples, promote within.......How about actually TESTING the teachers a little. This is one of the ONLY professions around where refresher courses are not REQUIRED.

I have NO problem doubling the salary of GOOD teachers............and I mean GOOD TEACHERS.....

Finally..........Both of my daughters want to be educators...........BOTH WANT to do a better job than their existing teachers..........BOTH want to help kids.......

Finally........Finally...........My oldest daugher.........her favorite role model is one of her best teachers...........now an assistant principal at her high school.

The system is broke.......Rules were put in place without funding, but MONEY doesn't fix everything.......we need to get out of that mentality........

I'm sorry you think I'm personally attacking you, because I'm not.

Later,

Geo

[Col Forbin]

I'm sorry you think I'm personally attacking you, because I'm not.

Later,

Geo

I guess we all are passionate about this issue.

[RoadToad]

I think of "teaching to the test" as meaning teaching mostly by rote memorization, instead of teaching the underlying concepts. In other words, the teacher basically lays out exactly what's going to be on the test, and that's what you get tested on. That's fine for some subjects sometimes, but doesn't teach analytical thinking. A common example in the IT field is people who have passed the Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (MCSE) test, but when faced with an actual problem on a network, have no clue where to start troubleshooting. It's to the point where MCSE certification really doesn't mean much, because so few of the people who hold it deserve the title of "engineer." And I think when people complain about school teachers "teaching to the test," what they mean is that people are earning diplomas by learning a given set of facts, but aren't learning the skills they need to succeed in the real world.