thanks to all for the info but nothin seem to work, caught one about 9" on a green pumpkin shakey head. when we were takin out around 200 a small club was takin out to we watch their weigh in and it took 4 fish at 5 and half pounds to win so with that said maybe it wasn't a good day after all oh well next week at ky and barkley should make up 4 it