Good day for stripers on Cumberland

[HURRICANEBOB]

re: MORTALITY: Found this articles that may shed some light.

http://www.cabelas.com/story-123/spr...y+Study+.shtml

The article seems to point to water temperature, as opposed to O2 levels as the key element that impacts catch and release mortality.

The question I have, is Hybrid mortality simliar to that of Stripers?

[PRO V LE]

Bob, I think we need our resident expert on Hybrids and Stripers Andrew aka. apb to answer that question.
Although I think he may have caught some sort of bug and has been chasing those "Green fish" that are members of the sunfish family.

[mhall]

Bob, I think we need our resident expert on Hybrids and Stripers Andrew aka. apb to answer that question.
Although I think he may have caught some sort of bug and has been chasing those "Green fish" that are members of the sunfish family.

I've been a bad influence on him to, lol.

[apb]

...
The question I have, is Hybrid mortality simliar to that of Stripers?

From what I have learned from talking with fish and wildlife, no. Hybrids can tolerate higher water temps than Stripers. Pull them out of water deeper than 40 feet, or real warm water and you'll have problems. You want to get them to the boat as quick as possible, get them back in the water as soon as possible, and they'll often be ok. Thats one reason that I used 20# line when trolling for them in summer, I could get them back in the water quickly. I'm no expert by any means, but thats what I've been told by people who know Hybrids better than I do.

And yes, Mhall has definitely been a bad influence on me this year. I swear, its all his fault

Andrew

[Duayne]

re: MORTALITY: Found this articles that may shed some light.

http://www.cabelas.com/story-123/spr...y+Study+.shtml

The article seems to point to water temperature, as opposed to O2 levels as the key element that impacts catch and release mortality.

The question I have, is Hybrid mortality similar to that of Stripers?

Temp and O2 go hand in hand. The colder the water, the more dissolved O2 it can hold. Think of the two extreems... Frozen water gives off very little of it's particles while boiling water can give off all it's particles in the form of steam. The structure changes are continual from one extreme to the other. This is why we cool our bait tanks in warmer months and why they will swim in circles in warmer water. They do this to run as much water as possible through their gills due to low dissolved O2.

The smallest number I have seen in reports for this region is 80% (most are 84% and up) summer mortality, which is high enough if you do not take any other factors into account. But when you consider that the % is across all size ranges and depths, the number becomes skewed when considering the size/depth factor. The larger the fish and the longer the fight, the more likelihood of mortality so pulling a keeper fish from 40 ft down on Cumberland would likely net you a 99% chance at mortality. Hook a smaller one that is more shallow and bull it in with minimal fight, the likelihood of mortality will probably be in the 65%-75% range.

They tried the Tuna tubes a few years back, but from what I have read that doesn't raise the survival % very much. I don't know if they tried running salt water through the tubes, but I thought that may be an option as the concept may work if applied correctly.

White bass tolerate a much higher temp range and lower dissolved O2 than stripers. You must consider even though they are related, white bass have naturally developed in fresh water where stripers naturally developed from salt water. The more dense salt water also holds a higher % of dissolved O2. Hybrids are usually bred in the male/female formation (I forget which way at the moment) so the offspring inherit the fresh water capacity.

[Lowerider]

[QUOTE=Duayne;374371]Temp and O2 go hand in hand.

Not necessarily Duayne - you've heard of the "summer squeeze" right? Cold deep water with little O2 and warmer shallower water squeeze stripes/eyes to a confined depth.

[Duayne]

Right... Cold water doesn't necessarily mean oxygenated water. It just means that it possibly can hold more dissolved oxygen. That's why we still oxygenate after we cool in the tanks. That deep water isn't exposed to loose oxygen. Until it goes through the dam..

But I should have started with, "Temp and the ability to hold O2 go hand in hand."

[vmky]

I also question some of the information in the studies, just because of on the water experiences. I have caught stripers, several times, in July and August feeding on the surface at 1:00 in the afternoon. Waverunners, powerboats and people everywhere. According to my fishing log, several times last year we caught a limit out of a school of surface fish when the surface water temps. were 84-87 degrees. The striper wouldn't be on the surface if high water temps. stressed them that much then return to 30-40ft. deep after feeding. Baitfish also. I do FULLY agree that striper caught from deep water have a high mortality, so do bass and other gamefish. But like other gamefish, not all fish are at the same depth at the same time. Sat. I marked stripers as deep as 80' and some 15' deep.

[apb]

I also question some of the information in the studies, just because of on the water experiences. I have caught stripers, several times, in July and August feeding on the surface at 1:00 in the afternoon. Waverunners, powerboats and people everywhere. According to my fishing log, several times last year we caught a limit out of a school of surface fish when the surface water temps. were 84-87 degrees. The striper wouldn't be on the surface if high water temps. stressed them that much then return to 30-40ft. deep after feeding. Baitfish also. I do FULLY agree that striper caught from deep water have a high mortality, so do bass and other gamefish. But like other gamefish, not all fish are at the same depth at the same time. Sat. I marked stripers as deep as 80' and some 15' deep.

How many of those stripers have you tracked after releasing to insure that they survived? As far as stripers feeding on top in warm water, yes, if that is where their food is, they'll come up shallow for brief times to feed and then go back deep. Difference between them feeding and you fighting them is the additional stress from the fight and the build up of lactic acid. That is what kills them. They don't have that additional stress while feeding and can go back deep at any point if they need too. Hard to do that if someone is pulling them to the surface.

Like I and others have said, EVERY study (both saltwater and freshwater) has come to the same conclusion: catch and release of stripers from warm water has a very high mortality rate. The mortality rate increases as the temps increase and fish size increases. Same for catching out of water 40 feet deep or more. Check some of the fisheries journals for yourself if you don't believe me. Fish and wildlife folks that I've talked to have said the same thing: catch your limit and then quit fishing for stripers.

Andrew

[HURRICANEBOB]

Okay, I'll ask the question. You all know I mess around alot, but am not heartless. So here's the question to ponder.

If I catch a Striper in warm water and keep him, the mortality rate is 100%. Caught = dead. Eaten yes, but dead none the less.

If caught and released, and mortality is 80 %, then 20% still live. 20% more fish to be caught by someone who may want to eat, or 20% less to stock next year. Caught and released if mortality rate tops at 80% is still less than 100% caught and eaten.

Now another way to look at it. All organic things that die will benefit some other living organism. Be it a bottom feeding predator, a crustacean, or an ameba. Organic things decay to organic matter that feeds eco systems.

So if I catch and release and 80% die, that 80% to some means will benefit something in the eco system. The 20% that live will reduce stocking costs and benefot the next fisherman. If I keep what I catch, 100% benefits me and me alone.

Glad to hear other thoughts, but rememeber, this is a sport, and sport is recreation, and recreation by its very essence is wasteful to some degree. If for no other reason than productive time is spent in a recreational effort that could have been spemt being productive.

Okay.......how many of you now know I used to be a logistics analyst, and how many of you just think I had too much Tequilla again?

I just want to share one thing with everyone on this board. I really enjoy all I read here, it broadens my horizons, I've learned alot, and I admit to trying to return the favor when ever I can.

Gotta go, laptop battery is dying, and I need to set my cot up in the van.

[apb]

I look at it this way. Legally, you can kill two stripers/day. If you catch 4 out of warm water, and the mortality rate is 80% (closer to 100% by August), you've killed at least 3 stripers. One more than the legal limit. You are not helping the fishery by killing more than your daily limit. If you were to catch your 2, release them, and stop fishing, then you are still in your legal limit. In that case you have not negatively impacted the fishery. Just seems like a waste to release a fish that is going to die anyway. Might as well fill your belly with them, they are tasty!

Personal choice, I very rarely fish for them during warm water season any more. I release almost all the stripers I catch from cold water. Its a "put and take" fishery, but the sizes can be increased by releasing stripers in cold water times.

My 2 cents.

Andrew

[tglass]

I agree 100% with Andrew!!!