why ????????

[HiDefFisherman]

Wouldn't that be the same as mandatory licensing?

I agree, If it takes a boating safety course and passing an exam to educate the ignorant. $30 would be worth it.

BB1

I too totally agree, $30 is nothing for a good safety education. There exists many problems though, the first off the top of my head is that online courses are bogus. Who knows if I am the one who took the course, or did a friend, or my wife, or my child... who tookt he course? I may have the card, but no proof it was me. This seems nothing more than a way to "tax" us users.

I'm not opposed to the tax, if it is applied to making our resource cleaner, safer, and renewing the resource.

I would support an actual mandatory course, that you have to attend in person, if that is what our soceity wants. I'll stand by my previous stand though. I do respect and totally understand we all have different ideas, and that is what is so great. The more of us that collaborate, the better chance we get a good solution.

This has been a great conversation. I hope somehow our problems will be solved.

Oh, something I just thought of as I was finishing the post. We will never have the mandatory safety class. Why? How in the world will it be applied to all that truly make our "lake" communities survive? The tourists!! Our government will not apply a rule that will limit tourism. Now they may decide to apply the law only to those of us that have KY license on our boats. In doing so though, they will be breaking constitutional law. Again, this is not the place for that discussion. And finally, with several of our waterways bridging multi-state boundries, it would be nearly impossible to try to regulate some type of "safe boater" certification without total cooperation between the states. Heck, we can't get that for even more important stuff. LOL

Thanks to all of you on this post. I love it when the internet experience makes me look at things from different perspectives.

HDF

[HURRICANEBOB]

HDF:

Look at it another way, if the class was required and an operators license was required, then maybe those who don't want to get the license would move out of state.....and mess around on somebody else's lakes.

I agree with the basic premise you make. But, KY doesn't have to play by other states rules, and so could make it mandatory for those who "REGISTER" a boat with KY bow numbers. Given most boaters on our lakes are from KY, would we not at least be attacking the bigger part of the problem?

Incidentally, how do those other folks fish in our lakes when coming from out of state? Don't they have to buy a non-resident, or tourist type 1, 7 or 15 day license? Does that stop them from coming? Nope....so, just add to the webpage a license to use your boat in KY waters, and to get the license, administer a safe boating test right on line. Pass? Get the license to operate during your vacation. Fail.......try again or leave the boat at home. Just my thoughts.......what should be can be!

[HiDefFisherman]

totally agree HB on the visitor's license, but would it be practical to have visitor's safety certification? It's unconstitutional to apply laws to just certain groups of a population. I also agree with you that we would be at least addressing the largest portion of the problem. Just the legal stuff that is in the way.

Also, as you are pointing out about the state of registration. The issue there is this, I know a lot of people who fish at KY Lake, and are residents of IN. But these folks have a "cabin" in KY, so they simply register their boats in KY instead of IN because of tax reasons. This just leaves open another loop hole.

Wow, the more we explore this, the more complicated it gets.

I guess I am just totally opposed to increasing the size of our government.

HDF

[HURRICANEBOB]

[QUOTE=HiDefFisherman;375644]totally agree HB on the visitor's license, but would it be practical to have visitor's safety certification? It's unconstitutional to apply laws to just certain groups of a population.

HDF:

Don't think its applying law to a group of a population. Its regulating a privilege. As KY-ites, we don't have the right to fish in public waters, we have to be granted that privilege, according to law, to do so by acquiring a license. By definition a license may be granted by a party ("licensor") to another party ("licensee") as an element of an agreement between those parties. A shorthand definition of a license is "an authorization (by the licensor) to use the licensed material (by the licensee)."
Laws of one state can apply to non-residents. A state's Sovereignty afforded by the Constitution allows them to regulate all who are within their territorial boundaries, so long as such law does not conflict or undermine federal law. Only fisherman have to buy a fishing license, and fisherman are a portion of the population, but are a portion of the population wishing to be granted a specific privilege to conduct a certain act with in the state.

PS: I gotta stop watching all those lawyer movies :-)

[HiDefFisherman]

Not going to argue HB, I am only going on the information I got in college and from my sister, a lawyer. She's not a particularly good lawyer, so I'll defer to your wisdom!

LOL

HDF

PS, the college courses I took were all in management and marketing, so I am merely considering the discrimination laws and the application of any law that affects a disparaite (spelling??-- it's really the first thing to go) *smile* group of any population. If a law enforcement entity is called upon to "enforce" something, even if it is a privelege license, I think it becomes discrimintory on its face. Ooops, sorry, I tried to stop myself...>LOL

I would imagine HB, that you are probably way more right than me on this. I mean it is late, and I am uhmmmm well I would not be on the water in my condition, so I will throw in the towel. Has to be totally legal.

HDF

[HURRICANEBOB]

HDF,

No arguments here, just enjoyed the exchange of views. Cheers and regards!

[caseydrew]

I don't get too frustrated when someone has a family with them and is already nervous about launching and loading the boat and happens to fix things up on the ramp. However, there is a certain licensed fishing guide that launches out of Irvin Cobb Marina on KY Lake on occasion that has done this to me 3 times in the last two years and there is NO excuse for this. It just blows my mind that a guide wouldn't have any more sense than to get everything ready on the ramp with people waiting. I've been nice and politely waited each time since he had paying customers standing on the dock and I didn't want to make him look bad, but I hope I get the chance to pull him over to the side one day and ask him what he is thinking when his customers are not around.

[ironhead70]

all i was wanting to know is why do people have to tie their boat down on the ramp and why would someone else get mad and bad mouth the people doing it and then turn around to do the same when i was nice enough to let him pull out before i was to put in. i did not think it would lead to having to go take a course, would that really make everyone pull their boat out of the way to tie down, come on if they got enough sense to back a boat down the ramp, then they should have enough common sense to pull out of the way

[HiDefFisherman]

Ironhead,

I totally get what you are saying. It goes to what I've always said, and what someone else has said here... "You can't legislate common sense."

That said, you really can't teach it to folks who have already grown to adulthood, at least in chronilogical age, not mental age. These folks seem to think the world revolves aroung them. And I guess I am guilty of this too, in some areas. Example, a family member had an appointment for some small surgery this Friday. Today the Dr's office called and wanted to know if the procedure could be done tomorrow (Tuesday). After checking, it was decided that yes it could. I called them back, and they said great, just make sure to call them 45 minutes prior to when they want us there to make sure they can still do it. Now being that I have been in public service type businesses for over 40 yrs, before retiring, I belive this world should revolve around me, and they should call me, not ask me and my family to sit around just in case they can do the procedure at a more convenient time for them, and then expect us to make the extra effort to make it easier for them, when we are paying...

Oooops, sorry off on a tangent. The point I am trying to make is that I think at some times we all kind of think we might be the center of the world.

I do agree totally with your frustration. Thank you for allowing us to hijack your thread and explore other dimensions that are related to your original premise.

HDF

all i was wanting to know is why do people have to tie their boat down on the ramp and why would someone else get mad and bad mouth the people doing it and then turn around to do the same when i was nice enough to let him pull out before i was to put in. i did not think it would lead to having to go take a course, would that really make everyone pull their boat out of the way to tie down, come on if they got enough sense to back a boat down the ramp, then they should have enough common sense to pull out of the way

[creeker]

Now they may decide to apply the law only to those of us that have KY license on our boats. In doing so though, they will be breaking constitutional law.

Then how is it that I can't take my boat through Indiana without getting stopped for not having a license plate on the trailer? Ky doesn't require one.

[sglass]

KY requires a plate if you plan on taking your boat out of state. You do not need one in state. Why I do not know. As for the morons in the State on our ramps. This year alone I have had two people give fishermen bad names everywhere. One was at Herrington after a tournament there was about 20 boats waiting to pull out. I am assuming a guys partner had never backed a trailer down before. It took him at least 10-15 tries to get it down Chimney Rock's wide ramp before he had it half way straight. That was funny to watch. Another was at Wilgreen. I was launching for a tournament and some guy decided it would be easier to leave his boat on the ramp instead of tying off to go in and get some crickets. He then went back to the boat and fooled around for at least ten minutes. I finally got aggrivated enough to squeeze my 20 footer just to the right of him and launch inches away from him to prove a point. I was by myself and launched and got my truck off the ramp before he moved. Why????

[ironhead70]

KY requires a plate if you plan on taking your boat out of state. You do not need one in state. Why I do not know. As for the morons in the State on our ramps. This year alone I have had two people give fishermen bad names everywhere. One was at Herrington after a tournament there was about 20 boats waiting to pull out. I am assuming a guys partner had never backed a trailer down before. It took him at least 10-15 tries to get it down Chimney Rock's wide ramp before he had it half way straight. That was funny to watch. Another was at Wilgreen. I was launching for a tournament and some guy decided it would be easier to leave his boat on the ramp instead of tying off to go in and get some crickets. He then went back to the boat and fooled around for at least ten minutes. I finally got aggrivated enough to squeeze my 20 footer just to the right of him and launch inches away from him to prove a point. I was by myself and launched and got my truck off the ramp before he moved. Why????

now now now lets take it easy on people backing up we all have problems backing up our first time and im sure there is alot of people on here that still do, may not take 15 min. to do it, and i will never have problem with ne one attemting to back up ill even jump in to help give direction and the more u sit there and watch someone back up the more nervous they get hey atlease they r attempting to hurry up and get out of the way