Shad Post....

[Buck35]

Mike still no ansewer on the carp.. I fish the lake 20-30 times a year for the last 15 years, when we started seeing the carp is about the same time the shad showed up its time to face the facts and face it the shad were not put in the lake they made it back in the same way the carp did!!!! The shad are there and there is nothing you can do, my suggestion is turn the lake into a trophy lake since you have all the main ingrediants already, there is big bass and lots of food already present put a 25" size limit on the bass and 1 fish daily limit.. Still alow the tournaments and take the money you make from this events and buy fish yearly to stock the lake.. Sounds like a gold mine to me!!!

[Dave Stewart]

1. I deleted the thread...when people start slamming one another and foul languange is used, the thread is gone, period.

2. Now you have a new thread going on this subject..start slamming one another again or using foul languange and I will delete it again.

3. It is a violation of the site discussion board rules to post comments on the discussion board about the administration of the boards...read this and heed this. If you have a problem with the administration of the boards...send your comments via email to [email protected].

4. If you can't live with the rules...find another site to play on.


Fact: Everytme this topic comes up, bass anglers are given the blame although no one has any proof of this. I am sure some may be...but how about the person out there dipping minnows that he seined up from another area and brought to the lake...happens all the time...then dumps those minnows they don't use in the lake...this is the obvious reason and more plausable.

[idbefishing]

Thank you Dave! You can only beat a dead horse for so long. It's easier to move a mountain then to move a person's opinion.

[MikeAxsom]

Dave, Peter, etc.;

I am sorry to learn here that Fishin.com has taken the position in this long running debate that the majority of fisheries managers and lake managers are wrong, and that the issue is not something that should continue to be debated. I have often noted that the threads that contain this issue end up having some of the site's largest view counts. That would make it appear that a lot of people are at least reading about the issue, while only a few actually post. It would seem to me that from a site admin perspective you might want to see the discussion continue. I know as a lake manager I want the discussion to continue, even though I do appreciate that the insults and personal attacks get pretty silly at times. But even that keeps people aware of the issue, and may just make some of those readers who don't post to stop and think about things that they might otherwise not think about before they do something harmful to the resource.

I wish people would understand that when someone in a management agency says that bass anglers may be responsible for some of the shad introductions, that is never, ever, meant to imply that all bass anglers are culpable. I know many bass anglers, and we host dozens of tournaments with some excellent clubs each year. Most of them are great folks and serious about their conservation ethic. I agree that it is not fair that so many times this issue gets discussed someone seems to always throw up the straw man argument that managers should not paint all bass anglers with the same brush. We don't. It is the people who throw up that argument that try to twist the topic into that shape, as you just did in your explanation of why you deleted the other thread. I personally see the bass tournament community as the best hope for getting this issue on the road to a resolution, but for that to happen they need to quit falling for that straw man ploy when someone throws it out there.

All that said, I do appreciate your position that this is your board, and since you indicate here that you share the opinion that managers are wrong who press the idea that some bass anglers are do so stupid things based on misinformation. Your desire for "proof" before a discussion can take place makes this an unlikely spot for the discussion to continue. So be it. I regret that the people who so often come here to see this management discussion from both side will no longer be able to do so.

I assume that since this post violates your TOS in that it does discuss board rules and comments, it is probable that my future access to the board will be denied. Please feel free to do that, as I will no longer be visiting Fishin.com anyway. Anyone out there who reads this before it gets taken down, feel free to contact me through my work email. If you know who I am and where I work, I'm sure you can find it online.

[HOGMONSTER]

Dave, Peter, etc.;

I am sorry to learn here that Fishin.com has taken the position in this long running debate that the majority of fisheries managers and lake managers are wrong, and that the issue is not something that should continue to be debated. I have often noted that the threads that contain this issue end up having some of the site's largest view counts. That would make it appear that a lot of people are at least reading about the issue, while only a few actually post. It would seem to me that from a site admin perspective you might want to see the discussion continue. I know as a lake manager I want the discussion to continue, even though I do appreciate that the insults and personal attacks get pretty silly at times. But even that keeps people aware of the issue, and may just make some of those readers who don't post to stop and think about things that they might otherwise not think about before they do something harmful to the resource.

I wish people would understand that when someone in a management agency says that bass anglers may be responsible for some of the shad introductions, that is never, ever, meant to imply that all bass anglers are culpable. I know many bass anglers, and we host dozens of tournaments with some excellent clubs each year. Most of them are great folks and serious about their conservation ethic. I agree that it is not fair that so many times this issue gets discussed someone seems to always throw up the straw man argument that managers should not paint all bass anglers with the same brush. We don't. It is the people who throw up that argument that try to twist the topic into that shape, as you just did in your explanation of why you deleted the other thread. I personally see the bass tournament community as the best hope for getting this issue on the road to a resolution, but for that to happen they need to quit falling for that straw man ploy when someone throws it out there.

All that said, I do appreciate your position that this is your board, and since you indicate here that you share the opinion that managers are wrong who press the idea that some bass anglers are do so stupid things based on misinformation. Your desire for "proof" before a discussion can take place makes this an unlikely spot for the discussion to continue. So be it. I regret that the people who so often come here to see this management discussion from both side will no longer be able to do so.

I assume that since this post violates your TOS in that it does discuss board rules and comments, it is probable that my future access to the board will be denied. Please feel free to do that, as I will no longer be visiting Fishin.com anyway. Anyone out there who reads this before it gets taken down, feel free to contact me through my work email. If you know who I am and where I work, I'm sure you can find it online.

Mike,
You will be back. I guarantee it.... See you are reeding this post right now!

I will miss your contradictions in your posts on this topic. "...when someone in a management agency says that bass anglers may be responsible for some of the shad introductions, that is never, ever, meant to imply that all bass anglers are culpable."

...??? So are you saying not all but most bass anglers????.... What are you saying????
Also, if bass anglers "MAY be responsible", then they also MAY NOT be responsible either???... right???...

Have a great day!!!

[Dave Stewart]

Dave, Peter, etc.;

I am sorry to learn here that Fishin.com has taken the position in this long running debate that the majority of fisheries managers and lake managers are wrong, and that the issue is not something that should continue to be debated. I have often noted that the threads that contain this issue end up having some of the site's largest view counts. That would make it appear that a lot of people are at least reading about the issue, while only a few actually post. It would seem to me that from a site admin perspective you might want to see the discussion continue. I know as a lake manager I want the discussion to continue, even though I do appreciate that the insults and personal attacks get pretty silly at times. But even that keeps people aware of the issue, and may just make some of those readers who don't post to stop and think about things that they might otherwise not think about before they do something harmful to the resource.

I wish people would understand that when someone in a management agency says that bass anglers may be responsible for some of the shad introductions, that is never, ever, meant to imply that all bass anglers are culpable. I know many bass anglers, and we host dozens of tournaments with some excellent clubs each year. Most of them are great folks and serious about their conservation ethic. I agree that it is not fair that so many times this issue gets discussed someone seems to always throw up the straw man argument that managers should not paint all bass anglers with the same brush. We don't. It is the people who throw up that argument that try to twist the topic into that shape, as you just did in your explanation of why you deleted the other thread. I personally see the bass tournament community as the best hope for getting this issue on the road to a resolution, but for that to happen they need to quit falling for that straw man ploy when someone throws it out there.

All that said, I do appreciate your position that this is your board, and since you indicate here that you share the opinion that managers are wrong who press the idea that some bass anglers are do so stupid things based on misinformation. Your desire for "proof" before a discussion can take place makes this an unlikely spot for the discussion to continue. So be it. I regret that the people who so often come here to see this management discussion from both side will no longer be able to do so.

I assume that since this post violates your TOS in that it does discuss board rules and comments, it is probable that my future access to the board will be denied. Please feel free to do that, as I will no longer be visiting Fishin.com anyway. Anyone out there who reads this before it gets taken down, feel free to contact me through my work email. If you know who I am and where I work, I'm sure you can find it online.

First of all let me say this....fishin.com has not taken any position on this matter. The post was deleted by ME...not Peter or anyone else. I am a volunteer moderator for this site. As a moderator I am charged to enforce the rules of the site...and I am not going to let a thread stay on the board when folks start slamming one another or name callling one another....period. Now, if you think that we should leave those type threads up for the kids that visit this site to read just so we can get a hit count or because some folks are interested in reading those kind of threads..then you are dead wrong.

As far as my thowing up a "straw dog", that is far from the truth. Fact is I said in my post (my opinion..I'll say that again MY OPINION) that some bass anglers may be responsible for the introduction of the shad and I also offered another possible source of the problem could be those dumping their unused minnows in the lake. Now if offering an example of another possible source of the problem is not to your liking...I am sorry...but you as a fisheries manager should know that most of the time, when there is a problem concerning health of a fishery, that it is normally a combination of things to include many natural occurances.

Since I make my living and have for many years on the water as a guide and angler, I think I am more than a little qualified to give my opinion. I probably have more time on the water in the past year than you do in the past 20 years...and I did not become a nationally recognized bass fishing guide without know just a little about what goes on in a fishery nor without having read and learned extensively about fish, habitat, invasive species, etc. etc..etc...it may surprise you that I actually get paid to teach classes about fishing that are focused on shad and that one of the things that I teach in my classes is the detrimental effect that overpopulations of shad can have on a fishery, especially in your part of the country. As I said before, the source of contamination of shad could be from over zealous bass anglers AND people that are unknowingly and ignorantly dumping some shad minnows in the water instead of on the land when they are finished fishing with their live bait and have some left.

I have no proof of either...nor do you...all we have is opinions....and opinions won't solve the problem you are having...only actions will.

[Lucky1]

As to the comment about Patoka and the downhill fishing.....

BFL last weekend took 21 pounds to win and I was talking with another person who finished in the top 10 who stated he had 15 keepers during the tournament...

21 pounds may make the cut this weekend for the FLW Cup and those are the best anglers out there!!!

The fishing is not that bad if you know how and where to catch them.

[redearhoosier]

As to the comment about Patoka and the downhill fishing.....

BFL last weekend took 21 pounds to win and I was talking with another person who finished in the top 10 who stated he had 15 keepers during the tournament...

21 pounds may make the cut this weekend for the FLW Cup and those are the best anglers out there!!!

The fishing is not that bad if you know how and where to catch them.

The downhill fishing at Patoka was referring to panfishing, not necessarily bass fishing. I've got a good friend who's a tournament fisherman and he's caught lunker bass out of there. But since the gizzard shad emerged at Patoka, the bluegill, redear and even crappie fishing have detiorated tremendously.

I'm a panfisherman and I live about 60 miles from Patoka, and I seriously wouldn't go there if you offered to pick me up and pay for the bait. I'd have you drop me off at a number of spots before I'd go there.

[HOGMONSTER]

1. I deleted the thread...when people start slamming one another and foul languange is used, the thread is gone, period.

2. Now you have a new thread going on this subject..start slamming one another again or using foul languange and I will delete it again.

3. It is a violation of the site discussion board rules to post comments on the discussion board about the administration of the boards...read this and heed this. If you have a problem with the administration of the boards...send your comments via email to [email protected].

4. If you can't live with the rules...find another site to play on.


Fact: Everytme this topic comes up, bass anglers are given the blame although no one has any proof of this. I am sure some may be...but how about the person out there dipping minnows that he seined up from another area and brought to the lake...happens all the time...then dumps those minnows they don't use in the lake...this is the obvious reason and more plausable.

Dave,
10-4.
By the way your "Fact" is right on, and that is the issue some just don't understand.

[fishNnut]

Forgive me for not understanding, but who is the person, that you guys have proof of, that dumped shad into a lake via a minnow bucket that they had seined up from another lake? When did you guys see it happen? Which lake was it? And did you guys turn the person in?

Seems like it is ok to point fingers at everyone except a few bass fishermen. I know for a fact that there is proof that a bass club put shad into a large Indiana reservoir. However, as you know, proof and enough proof to prosecute are two different things.

[Legato]

why don't you just delete this topic and let it end there? This was retarded to even open another thread about the old one closing. Just get over it, nothing you say on here is going to change anything going on in the water. MOVE ON.

[fishassasin]

for the general fisherman i think patoka ***** .... MY OPINION. ive caught maybe 6 bass out of all the times ive been there and none of them made it to 12 inches. and gills are small .. i catch bigger gills in the ohio river heck even the bass i catch have all been bigger than patako ones i have caught. i guess im not a professional guide that fishes day in night in and out on that lake. as for shad ... birds can catch fish from other surrounding ponds that are close by and feed on these fish at neighboring waters and the eggs can get into the system and hatch .. bet you never thought of that ... not saying it happened to patoka. but how would it happen to a 1 acre lake that is 2 miles from the nearest water with those fish in it.