Peter, Dave, Andrew, Is there a way?

[apb]

Appologies for the late reply, out fishing since Friday

I think Brian's post pretty much summed it up. It takes a combination of moderation and users moderating themselves for the forum to work well. For the most part, the people posting on the off-topic forum are respectable to other posters. Probably a big part of that is that a good number of the people who post here either know each other or fish together pretty regularily. That helps a lot.

Certainly no one wants to cause Peter or any business that advertises here any grief. Nor do they want to cause users to leave the site or be offended by a post they made. Sure, we get a few trolls from time to time, but they are typically dealt with in short order. Alerts from other posters on the forum help out with that.

If there is the fear that some of the discussions here step over the line and may be a black eye for fishin.com, then there are a few options: 1) not allow topics that commonly cause such problems; 2) remove the off-topic forum completely; 3) remove people who have problems abiding by the simple rules; 4) make the off-topic board only visible to certain members; or 5) a combination of the above. Alternately, we could set up two off topic forums: one for politics and the other for general off-topic discussions that are not fishing related (I've seen this on other sites). Brian's points above address several of the options I suggest. In the end, its Peter's call on what he feels is most appropriate for the site.

Peter, while I've helped out on several forums, its always been in the moderator capacity so I am not completely familar with adminstration type operations. Based on what I've seen here and on other sites, setting up an age limit or a limit on who has access to the forum are both possible with the software. Probably associated with the user-groups. Most likely this would entail setting up a "off-topic" group and adding folks to that group so they would have assess to the regular forums, plus the off-topic forum. The off-topic forum could be set as inassessable to other users, or not visible to other users (first option would be better). Probably a little pain to set up initially, but should not require much work other than add folks to the user-group if requested or remove folks from accessing the forum if they cannot abide by the rules.

My personal preference would be to keep the forum or break into two forums (political discussion and general). The site is often considered a community. As with any community, there are various discussions. Many of the topics that I have seen or particicated in on the off-topic forum I have discussed with fishing partners and family. In the past I have typically let a few more things slide here than I would have on the other forums under the assumption (perhaps incorrect), that younger users would not have an interest in the discussions. I have no problem stepping up the moderation to remove posts that do not meet with the standards set for the other forums and have no problem removing folks who continue to step over the line.

Oh, and for those few folks who seem to want to turn this thread into a dem vs repub thread, please start your own thread rather than hijacking this one.

Andrew

[DJD]

I'm not looking at going to another site nor would I appreciate that recommendation. I'm just trying to understand what all this talk about removing a very active board is all about. A few trolls? A few deleted posts? Politics? Daily news? Moral discussions? What was the off topic board created for in the first place, I'm asking because I thought it was for nonfishing related topics?

Have we caused grief for this site in the name of business lost? Embarassment to this site? Noone I know ever intended that and I'm sorry if I did.

I'm a parent and my 12 year old does not have access at her leisure to surf any site she wants. She is monitored like all kids should be. I just wonder who or how many kids visit the off topic board? Anyone know? Anyone have complaints from kids or parents of kids from things they read on this board? I know that isn't my business but I'm asking anyway since we are all being called out.

So I am respectfully asking what happened that caused this to be such a hot topic? Hopefully the answer isn't because we said so...I think we are all walking on eggshells now wanting to know. Please fill us in. Thanks.

[Chubminnow]

Even though some people might find humor in what I'm about to ask, I'm going to ask it anyway. I'm being serious when I ask this question too. Whenever I refer to Bamy as "NObama" do the moderators of this board consider this stepping over the line or not abiding by the rules that are set forth here? The reason I ask is because I know that on another website I frequent (a lake in kentucky where my name is Chubminnow), the mods there have been correcting my grammer so to speak...I know for a fact I spell it with a capital N instead of a capital O.

Once again just curious...I know some people on here actually voted for Nobama...but I didn't and this is one of my own personal ways I have to let it be known that I don't care a lot for the guy...so what about it, am I over stepping the rules or not? I'm not sure what every one else calls it but I call it freedom of speech.

For the record, I could care less about Dem verses Repub because in the past I have voted both ways, criss crossed, whatever...I believe in what's best for this country rather than a party of people.

[Dave Stewart]

Even though some people might find humor in what I'm about to ask, I'm going to ask it anyway. I'm being serious when I ask this question too. Whenever I refer to Bamy as "NObama" do the moderators of this board consider this stepping over the line or not abiding by the rules that are set forth here? The reason I ask is because I know that on another website I frequent (a lake in kentucky where my name is Chubminnow), the mods there have been correcting my grammer so to speak...I know for a fact I spell it with a capital N instead of a capital O.

Once again just curious...I know some people on here actually voted for Nobama...but I didn't and this is one of my own personal ways I have to let it be known that I don't care a lot for the guy...so what about it, am I over stepping the rules or not? I'm not sure what every one else calls it but I call it freedom of speech.

For the record, I could care less about Dem verses Repub because in the past I have voted both ways, criss crossed, whatever...I believe in what's best for this country rather than a party of people.

Personally I have never thought twice about your NObama. I just figured it was your way of saying you did not support him for president....ie...No Obama....and I have not had any complaints about it so I would assume everyone sees it that way also. What goes on on other websites is immaterial to this website...they all have different rules. As far as Freedom of Speech goes...that does not apply here...this is a privately owned entity and as such has the right to limit what is allowed and what is not allowed to be posted here.

[slippedcork]

I'm not looking at going to another site nor would I appreciate that recommendation. I'm just trying to understand what all this talk about removing a very active board is all about. A few trolls? A few deleted posts? Politics? Daily news? Moral discussions? What was the off topic board created for in the first place, I'm asking because I thought it was for nonfishing related topics?

Have we caused grief for this site in the name of business lost? Embarassment to this site? Noone I know ever intended that and I'm sorry if I did.

I'm a parent and my 12 year old does not have access at her leisure to surf any site she wants. She is monitored like all kids should be. I just wonder who or how many kids visit the off topic board? Anyone know? Anyone have complaints from kids or parents of kids from things they read on this board? I know that isn't my business but I'm asking anyway since we are all being called out.

So I am respectfully asking what happened that caused this to be such a hot topic? Hopefully the answer isn't because we said so...I think we are all walking on eggshells now wanting to know. Please fill us in. Thanks.

I agree with you!

[Dave Stewart]

I'm not looking at going to another site nor would I appreciate that recommendation. I'm just trying to understand what all this talk about removing a very active board is all about. A few trolls? A few deleted posts? Politics? Daily news? Moral discussions? What was the off topic board created for in the first place, I'm asking because I thought it was for nonfishing related topics?

Have we caused grief for this site in the name of business lost? Embarassment to this site? Noone I know ever intended that and I'm sorry if I did.

I'm a parent and my 12 year old does not have access at her leisure to surf any site she wants. She is monitored like all kids should be. I just wonder who or how many kids visit the off topic board? Anyone know? Anyone have complaints from kids or parents of kids from things they read on this board? I know that isn't my business but I'm asking anyway since we are all being called out.

So I am respectfully asking what happened that caused this to be such a hot topic? Hopefully the answer isn't because we said so...I think we are all walking on eggshells now wanting to know. Please fill us in. Thanks.

This is a hot topic because of all the repeated rules violations on this board and because I notified Peter that I would no longer be moderating this board because this board takes up more time to moderate than the rest of the site put together...and not because this board is the busiest...far from it...it is because this board has more rules violations than the rest of the site put together.

One person mentioned that the moderators just need to moderate and do their jobs...of course this comment was made by a person who's post concerning Rick Pitino was one of the posts in that thread that got the thread deleted..go figure.

The Off Topics board was created for topics not directly fishing related...not my decision...I would not have created it in the first place..but the decision was made to create it and so it was. The board rules for the site apply to all boards, including this one...there are no "special rules" for this board.

I suggest all of you go to the Discussion Board Rules and read Rule #5 thoroughly....if you would abide by this rule...there would be very few if any problems here on this board and no one would be considering what to do with the board. Actually, it seems to me that Peter has by his pinned post on this board, let you know his feelings..he is letting the board remain but he is asking that you tone things down a little here and has told you exactly what is going to happen if you don't.

As far as complaints...yes, I have received many complaints about posts on this board...seems I remember one from you (DJD) just recently. Yours is just one of many others received. No need to go into what the complaints are, but basically the complaints for the most part have been justified and involve folks complaining about rules violations that have offended them...ie...race, languange etc...it does not have to be a kid that is offended to make these offenses serious enough to take a hard look at ourselves.

As far as business lost...don't know that there has been any lost..if there was it would not be known...but it does not take a lot of common sense to realize that allowing racial remarks, religious slams and political bantering full of slams, name calling etc is not good nor would be good for any business....for those that think you know how to run a business in which you are dealing with the public: do you allow these kind of activities to go on in front of your customers.?? I doubt it. This is not an ol timey tackle shop and this board is not a back room in it. Not sure about where you shop but the tackle shops I work with do not have a back room anymore and would not allow this kind of public display in front of their customers. I would not think this kind of activity would be allowed in an office either...unless it was the boss doing it and that would end with the first lawsuit or EEO complaint.

Bottom line: I don't see this board being removed, but if it is, it would be because the folks coming in here cannot abide by the rules. Peter makes those decisions....and again, I think from his pinned post at the top, he is giving you a chance to clean up the act on this board...all you have to do is abide by the rules and you can argue all you want. How hard is that?

[DJD]

Thanks for the reply Dave. I guess I couldn't see the forrest for the trees.

[MrSplitshot]

Dave,

I respect your logic and appreciate taking the time to address this thread....don't necessarily agree with it all, but respect it nonetheless.

One person mentioned that the moderators just need to moderate and do their jobs...of course this comment was made by a person who's post concerning Rick Pitino was one of the posts in that thread that got the thread deleted..go figure.

Since I mentioned moderators making a commitment to moderate...and since I was one of the early posters in that old Pitino thread...I'm going to assume you're talking about me here. That's cool. I'd actually prefer to be called out by name (I'm a big boy, I can take it. lol)...and would have been nice to get a PM about the post in question back on the Pitino thread, but it's alright. Everyone's busy, and I know you can't address them all. First, I'll be quick to apologize for my reply on the Pitino post. I was joking with the boys here, but it was in poor taste and I shouldn't have used some of the phrasing I did. If you look back through the volumes of Fishin.com history, it's probably the first and only post that has ever been removed from me...so let's not make me out to be some big hypocrite here. Me making a mistake with that post has no bearing on the fact that moderators have to make a committment to moderate. That's why you guys are here and appointed by Peter. I wouldn't want to be one, so my hat's off to you and the others. In no way was I insinuating that you guys aren't doing your jobs - Quite the contrary. I was just making the point that part of having an off-topic area is having moderators who make a committment to referree it.

As far as business lost...don't know that there has been any lost..if there was it would not be known...but it does not take a lot of common sense to realize that allowing racial remarks, religious slams and political bantering full of slams, name calling etc is not good nor would be good for any business....for those that think you know how to run a business in which you are dealing with the public: do you allow these kind of activities to go on in front of your customers.?? I doubt it. This is not an ol timey tackle shop and this board is not a back room in it. Not sure about where you shop but the tackle shops I work with do not have a back room anymore and would not allow this kind of public display in front of their customers. I would not think this kind of activity would be allowed in an office either...unless it was the boss doing it and that would end with the first lawsuit or EEO complaint.

That's fair...and no, I wouldn't allow that kind of stuff in my business. But, my business isn't an internet website with a message forum specifically designed for people to come jaw with each other, whether about fishing, or in the section setup for off topic banter. It's a little different. And in no way should racial or over the top political slams be allowed. But it's the nature of the beast that on an internet forum you're going to have a lot of talk and back and forth. It's okay, as long as it's moderated so the posts that break the rules are addressed...and repeat offenders that can't get it through their thick skulls are handled correctly. If I ran a bar, I'd expect a bar fight every now and then...and I'd expect my bouncer to throw them out on the curb and let the night continue. lol

All I'm saying is that without off topic talk, my opinion and my experience in similar situations is that the place can get stale. It's a pain in the keister to moderate, but in my opinion it's a necessary evil.

And again, my apologies on the Pitino post.

Thanks!
BQ