Yeah I have a seperate flippin stick that i've got 50# braid on for grass, but i think the 15 or 17 pound seaguar would do fine around trees and chunk rocks. but then again that flouro will snap if there is even the slightest nick in it. I dunno somehow the mono with the strech seems like it would resist the abrasion from rocks and trees better....I dunno, I do like flouro especially on my shaky heads and it is tough stuff, maybe i'll give it a try once this mono wears out that i've got right now and try to make a decision on what is better. fishin.com never ceases to amaze me though, you guys have been a big help..thanks!