pleasure boat riders!

[Barry2780]

I fished a all night tournament this past friday night and at midnight these big dang cruisers are everywhere still on cumberland, if i aint mistaking they was having a stupid poker run saturday, (all summer long tho) and i mean it was fogging bad around harmon and difficulty creek, i had to idle with my gps and there were these idiots running down the lake i could here them but couldnt see them and there waves washing over a ranger!This lake is not a toy it can kill you if you dont respect it! im really tired of the these idiots on this lake and driving drunk and running down the lake putting off these dangerous waves! there should be a certain time for them to be off the water because at night you cant see these huge waves! here you have some fisherman fishing and the fish and wildlife are worried about you instead of getting these idiots off the water! and were the ones that pays there way to have that job perchasing fishing and hunting license! what do you all think about this? i recon they had to airlift someone out saturday night around the boys camp and i recon someone drowned in harmon creek somewhere!

[Bass_King2007]

barry dont fell bad i fished the thursday night classic last night out of conley..... we blasted off at 7, and was down around harmon creek by 7:15.. As we came up to harmon creek there was at least no lie 75 to 100 boats coming out of the creek headed toward the state dock.... this went on all night long!!! I was told by a water patrol officer there was multilple injuries and 2 or 3 deaths in harmon creek b/c of drunk "buckeyes"... I also noticed something that really ticked me off was the water patrol stopping us bass fisherman for running head lights!!! I mean come on, there are 15,000 drunk idiots running down the lake in boats and the only thing they have to do is stop fisherman for running head lights... i was stopped at 3 in the morning for running mine.... I think our fish and wildlife officers are a dang joke!!! I told the officer that i was running mine for the sole reason that u never know when some drunk idiot is going to be out in the middle of the lake with no lights on!!! And also i think that there souldnt even be any tournaments that weekend... i know i will NEVER fish another thursday nighter if the classic will be on the poker run, and i know several people that said the same thing!!

[HURRICANEBOB]

My thoughts:

1. I agree there should never be a bass tournament or any fishing tournament on the same weekend or days right before a poker run. But I kinda think the tourney organizers ought to be the one's to make that change voluntarily for all the good reasons you all have mentioned.....safety of all while using the same water for different purposes.

2. I really don't like the idea of speed competitions being conducted on any public water water way, unless that portion of the water way is cordoned off to keep out those not in the competition. On Cumberland, that would be impossible due to the area the run takes up, so I think they ought either kill the run, or set very strict speed limits for the event and fine the heck out of participants that act unsafely.

3. I agree the KDFWR folks ought really have been raiding Harmon Creek, cause I know darn well they would have found a ton of boats with open alcohol beverage containers on it.

4. Just from my experience, I personally have been checked at C-land 5 times in 15 years of going there. I run a pontoon boat. But I have never seen a houseboat stopped by KDFWR and checked for open containers. A houseboat is a boat and to me any liquor found on board open is a violation. Do houseboats get stopped and checked for booze? If there is someone from KDFWR reading this, I'm not being sarcastic, I'd really like to hear you alls view. Be glad to have you correct me if I'm wrong.

5. I'd like to see speed limits set for the lake, one set for night time, and one set for day time. Day time, 50 mph is just fine cause we can see the waves and boats coming. To me, in the dark, 25 mph for boats 25 foot and less, and 10 mph for boats 26 foot and up would be a great idea for safety sakes. Bigger boats put up bigger waves, and big cruisers take more time and space to avoid hazzards in the dark. And I know the folks with the big fast boats would complain. But just because my Ford has a 5.4 liter that will do 100 mph, doesn't mean I should be allowed to do that on a public highway.

6. I have see on Cland a KDFWR boat chase down and stop a big cruiser who was putting out a massive wake and nearly swamping boats. But last time I saw that happen was over 5 years ago. I'd guess they still do that, cause I think all boaters are responsible for the wake damages they create.

[PRO V LE]

Bass King will you please tell us the name or number of the KDFWR officer that told you "2or3 dead in Harmon this weekend?
A 20 year old did drown Sat. night after going down the slide on a rental houseboat and not knowing there was a runabout tied to the bottom of the slide area. His entire family was on the boat at the time.
There were also some injurys by fall's from the upper deck's of some houseboats.
The sale of alcohol is illeagal in the area, open container laws apply state wide, thus the use of can coolers or cozzies when in the public view. Inside a houseboat or Cruiser do as you please.
Headlights on a boat used other than for docking is ILLEGAL period!
The KDFWR patrol do'es a very good job with the limited resources that they have.

[HURRICANEBOB]

The sale of alcohol is illeagal in the area, open container laws apply state wide, thus the use of can coolers or cozzies when in the public view. Inside a houseboat or Cruiser do as you please.

Kentucky: The Legal Requirements Of Boating
Kentucky law states:
A person is considered to be intoxicated if the concentration of alcohol in
his or her blood is 0.08% or more.
It is also illegal to drink alcoholic beverages in public places—which includes
the waterways of Kentucky.

If a houseboat is on the public waterway then it seems according to this anyone inside it drinking a beer is in a public place.

More specific, and note the words any vehicle

KRS 222.202 Offenses of alcohol intoxication or drinking alcoholic beverages in a public place
1 Penalty: KRS 222.990(3) 2 Penalty: KRS 222.990(4)
(1) A person is guilty of alcohol intoxication when he appears in a public place manifestly under the influence of
alcohol to the degree that he may endanger himself or other persons or property, or unreasonably annoy persons
in his vicinity.
(2) A person is guilty of drinking alcoholic beverages in a public place when he drinks an alcoholic beverage in a
public place, or in or upon any passenger coach, or other vehicle commonly used for the transportation of
passengers, or in or about any depot, platform, or waiting room.


Are houseboats designed to transport passengers or furniture?

[PRO V LE]

Bob, my original intent was to point out that the possesion of alcohol for private consumption is legal.
If the pilot of the craft is operating in a dangerous manner they can be cited, if they are over .08% they also can be arrested.
You're above info. pertains to commercial/ therefore public transportation etc. not a private Houseboat/ Craft.
Have you ever had a drink on a Airline flight?
Why do we push for a designated driver for the intoxicated passengers in a vehicle including boats.
Ask any KDFW officer about this, sit on the front deck with a long neck and they can get you, put it in a cool cup and they will leave you alone, go inside where the PUBLIC can not see it and no problem.

[HURRICANEBOB]

You're above info. pertains to commercial/ therefore public transportation etc. not a private Houseboat/ Craft.
Have you ever had a drink on a Airline flight?

Pro V,
Think ya might have that mixed up with KRS 189.530 Providing motor vehicle to person intoxicated or under influence of substance which may impair driving ability -- Possession of open alcoholic beverage container in a motor vehicle prohibited -- Exceptions -- Definitions -- Election of offenses to prosecute.

(1) No person shall provide a motor vehicle to another to operate upon a highway, knowing that the other person is in an intoxicated condition, or under the influence of any substance which may impair one's driving ability.

(2) A person is guilty of possession of an open alcoholic beverage container in a motor vehicle, when he or she has in his or her possession an open alcoholic beverage container in the passenger area of a motor vehicle located on a public highway or on the right-of-way of a public highway. However, nothing in this section shall prohibit the possession of an open alcoholic beverage container by an individual who is strictly a passenger and not the driver, in the passenger area of a motor vehicle maintained or used primarily for the transportation of persons for compensation, such as buses, taxis, and limousines, or in a recreational vehicle, motor home, or motor coach.

I agree what you said pertains to paid for transportation, i.e. like buying a bus ticket. But the other KRS is pointed at boating. Just for grins, I sent the whole thing, both KRS's to the KDFWR to get their response.

Not trying to argue, just making sure that what is said here is the gospel so nobody inadvertently gets a night in jail because the "thought" they were right. Apprecite you helping develop the discussion.

[HURRICANEBOB]

Pro V,
Just for grins, I sent the whole thing, both KRS's to the KDFWR to get their response.

Pro V: I concede a tie! Response I got from KDFWR is below and question I asked below that. Yep, its illegal to have an open container of alchol on any public waterway (One for Bob) BUT: Probabilty of getting caught on a houseboat or while beached is slight as the officer would have to have lots of porbable cause to search to be confronted with it. (One for Pro V).


Deb and Bob,
First let me begin by saying that I don't perceive you questions to be quibbling and I am grateful to you for taking the time to seek clarification.

Without going into line by line detail, the waters of the Commonwealth are, by statutory definition, a public place.

Kentucky law prohibits consuming alcoholic beverages in public places (except those places that are licensed to sell and serve alcohol).

We take this matter very seriously because nationally, 1 out of every 5 boating related fatalities are alcohol related. However, In Kentucky, 1 out of every 2 boating related fatalities are alcohol related. This makes it is clear that we have much room for improvement in this area.

Admiralty and maritime laws do not provide for the same presumption of right to privacy as do the laws which pertain to motor vehicles. This has endured numerous challenges and has been up held by the Supreme Court. This is why boats may be routinely boarded and inspected while motor vehicles may not.
Now with all of that said, I will tell you that it is highly unlikely that your boat would ever be boarded while docked, beached or at anchor unless the officer(s) had tremendous probable cause to do so. Even then, unless it was deemed and emergency of one nature or another, the officer(s) would secure the site and obtain a warrant before boarding.

No one might ever know if you or your passengers are drinking alcohol while out of sight onboard any boat. You must consider, however, that "if" you all are drinking and minding your own business and another boat hits you or you or one of your passengers somehow becomes injured, this immediately becomes an alcohol related incident. With this incident would come a Pandora's box of potential liability issues and concerns.

Because I deal, almost on a daily basis, with issues such as these, I can tell you that the potential liability concern alone is reason enough for me to not ever want to take this chance.

I hope that I have addressed your questions and concerns to your satisfaction. If you need additional information, please contact me directly.


Sergeant John R. Anderson
Boating Education and Enforcement Section
Division of Law Enforcement
Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Spalding, Jeff (FW) on behalf of FW Info Center
Sent: Tue 9/15/2009 8:14 AM
To: Anderson, John (FW)
Subject: FW: Alcohol in public places.


John,

Could you please take care of this one for me I just wasn’t sure if I

Am 100% sure what to tell him. And cc me back Thanks Jeff




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Deb and Bob [mailto[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 5:25 PM
To: FW Info Center
Subject: Alcohol in public places.



I have a question, I want to be sure I understand the law so I can obey it. My questions deals with the KRS’s below. My questions deal with rented houseboats and privately owned pontoon boats



First: On my POV pontoon boat, if I read this right, it is illegal for any of my passengers to have an open container of alcohol while on my boat in a public water way. Am I correct?



Second: If I rent a houseboat at Lake Cumberland, and put the nose of the boat on the bank to anchor it, I realize the boat is still on a public waterway. Is it illegal for my passengers in the houseboat to have an open container of alcohol? The houseboat is in a public place, and my passengers are not paying me compensation to transport them. But, the houseboat is rented for compensation, and KRS 189 seems to make an exception for that.

Please understand I am not quibbling, I just want to be darn sure before I rent a houseboat what the laws really say about possession of alcohol while on it, and as a pontoon owner, I want to be sure I don’t allow my guests to break the law



KRS 222.202 Offenses of alcohol intoxication or drinking alcoholic beverages in a public place

1 Penalty: KRS 222.990(3) 2 Penalty: KRS 222.990(4)

(1) A person is guilty of alcohol intoxication when he appears in a public place manifestly under the influence of

alcohol to the degree that he may endanger himself or other persons or property, or unreasonably annoy persons

in his vicinity.

(2) A person is guilty of drinking alcoholic beverages in a public place when he drinks an alcoholic beverage in a public place, or in or upon any passenger coach, or other vehicle commonly used for the transportation of passengers, or in or about any depot, platform, or waiting room.

189.530 Providing motor vehicle to person intoxicated or under influence of substance which may impair driving ability -- Possession of open alcoholic beverage container in a motor vehicle prohibited -- Exceptions -- Definitions -- Election of offenses to prosecute.

(1) No person shall provide a motor vehicle to another to operate upon a highway, knowing that the other person is in an intoxicated condition, or under the influence of any substance which may impair one's driving ability.

(2) A person is guilty of possession of an open alcoholic beverage container in a motor vehicle, when he or she has in his or her possession an open alcoholic beverage container in the passenger area of a motor vehicle located on a public highway or on the right-of-way of a public highway. However, nothing in this section shall prohibit the possession of an open alcoholic beverage container by an individual who is strictly a passenger and not the driver, in the passenger area of a motor vehicle maintained or used primarily for the transportation of persons for compensation, such as buses, taxis, and limousines, or in a recreational vehicle, motor home, or motor coach.
Bob Hamme
Etown KY 42701

[Chubminnow]

were the ones that pays there way to have that job perchasing fishing and hunting license! what do you all think about this?

I might be wrong but I thought KDFWR was supported from hunting, fishing AND boat license sales...which means even those big old cruisers you're mentioning also help to fund the KDFWR.

In my honest opinion I can't believe anyone would host a tournament on Friday, Saturday or Sunday of poker run weekend anyway, let alone participate in one. Unless you keep things restricted to an area of the lake that poker run people don't go to, not sure if this is possible or not.

[striperjoe]

I fished a all night tournament this past friday night and at midnight these big dang cruisers are everywhere still on cumberland, if i aint mistaking they was having a stupid poker run saturday, (all summer long tho) and i mean it was fogging bad around harmon and difficulty creek, i had to idle with my gps and there were these idiots running down the lake i could here them but couldnt see them and there waves washing over a ranger!This lake is not a toy it can kill you if you dont respect it! im really tired of the these idiots on this lake and driving drunk and running down the lake putting off these dangerous waves! there should be a certain time for them to be off the water because at night you cant see these huge waves! here you have some fisherman fishing and the fish and wildlife are worried about you instead of getting these idiots off the water! and were the ones that pays there way to have that job perchasing fishing and hunting license! what do you all think about this? i recon they had to airlift someone out saturday night around the boys camp and i recon someone drowned in harmon creek somewhere!

I am an avid Striper Guy and have property on the Lake. I don't like this anymore than you guys do-But they have this every year on this same weekend. It is all sanctioned and cleared thru proper authorities.
Do as I do an plan your fishing trip another day.
I have been told by bass guys that after
the run the fishing can be very good close to the bank as these idiots do chase bait and fish in to shore.

[kygorski]

You were nuts for being out there, this event was planned and posted. Sure they make waves and big ones at that, but common asense would tell you its no place to be fishing, there are opther lakes that didn't have that kind of pressure.I live 14 miles from grider ramp, and never use it on week ends till november.

[Barry2780]

You were nuts for being out there, this event was planned and posted. Sure they make waves and big ones at that, but common asense would tell you its no place to be fishing, there are opther lakes that didn't have that kind of pressure.I live 14 miles from grider ramp, and never use it on week ends till november.

For one thing I'm 29 years old and I have been fishing this lake sense I have been walking with my dad and I have been fishing tournaments far as I can remember and I aint going to let some stupid event like that keep me off the water especially during the night hours and which they should be off the water during that time of night I mean come on are you serious use sense! I think the idiots out there ripping down the lake drunk hollaring during the fog should use common sense! Something needs to be done! Its like that all summer! Not just this past weekend!