Islamic Day of Prayer at The White House

[Chubminnow]

Gee whiz...I really appreciate the reminder of how much I dislike things at the White House...a quick reminder to me of how nice the non-political posting week was.

[Tom523]

Bug,

I find religion a very difficult subject to debate over, so generally steer clear of it entirely on message boards.

However, gotta share a couple of thoughts on this, respectfully of course...

In my opinion...

(1) I disagree with Obama's decision to cancel the National Day of Prayer Ceremony at The White House in fears that it would offend someone. However, I think there is a slight difference between a National Day of Prayer by the Government, and a gathering of 50,000 Islamic worshipers who get together on Capitol Hill to pray. While "allowing" it to happen could be considered quasi-sactioning it, it's really not. If an independent group of Catholics wanted to get 50,000 together in DC and have a prayer service, I don't see any reason why they couldn't...similar to a Million-Man-March or any other gathering of folks on the Capitol. It's a public place. That doesn't mean the Government is favoring Catholic religion.

(2) Obama, though I am NOT a fan, didn't declare that the United States is no longer a Christian nation. He said (although he fumbled the prepared remarks somewhat), that the US is no longer JUST a Christian nation. The "Just" is a big word in that sentence, and most of the emails circulating are leaving that part out. I would have to agree wholeheartedly that our country is no longer JUST a Christian nation. It has not been for some time. You know that freedom from religious persecution was what brought the Pilgrims here, and you know that we have a very diverse makeup of religious populations in this country. I have no problem with that - Our men and women in uniform who fight and die to defend this country and that freedom to worship whomever you choose come from all of those religious backgrounds. It is what this country is made of - Christians, Jews, Muslims, Athiests, Budhists, etc, etc, etc. That's okay. You and I are free to be a Christian, while our neighbor is free to be Islamic. If they are passionate enough about their religious beliefs to gather and pray at their nation's capitol, then so be it. As long as it's peaceful and pro-America, what's the problem with that? I'm not saying that I agree with all of the Islamic folks, but you can be Islamic and Pro-American. I looked at the website you linked and part of the day on Capitol Hill is for Islamic American youth to take tours of the capitol, Library of Congress, and Supreme Court and learn a bit. That sounds pretty Pro-American to me, just saying.

At face value it's shocking to say that 50K Islamic worshipers are gathering on the capitol, but in reality I really don't think it's that big a deal.

Just my opinion.

Since we are looking at things at face value , There was nothing wrong with 12 men of Arab Descent flying on aircraft on Sept. 11th. I agree with most of what you posted but we have to get out of the pre 9/11 thinking. During these tours of the Library of Congress and the Supreme Court , How many are gathering intelligence that could be used for a future attack. Fool me once, but don't fool me again.

[kyfanatic]

Next our children will be required to face Islam 3 times a day and bow to Allah or receive a caning,girls will start wearing veils and won't be allowed to be educated.
Guess the razor and shaving cream companies will suffer,but the bright side is we can get a jump on the turban market.

[Tom523]

Bug I haven't forgotten. I didn't see much relating to a double standard in the original post or chain letter.

First I'll agree with you that the courts have too radically interpreted the Establishment Clause by creating a mythical "wall of separation between church and state." Most people think that phrase is actually in the Constitution.

What I can't understand, though, is why we don't want Muslims to gather and say "the radical wing of our religion is wrong--America is NOT the Great Satan, we love America"?

It seems to me that when we paint all Muslims with the same brush, we take on the characteristics of the fanatical Muslims we all want to see die out. They don't distinguish between enemy combatants and civilians, for example.

All Muslims are not the same. Let the radical Muslims, not us, cast anyone who has a different faith as an enemy. Most Muslims are not.

\

Maybe I've been looking in the wrong areas. Could you please point me in the direction of where Moderate muslims have denounced all of these acts of terrorism?

[the_donger]

Hmmm, what ever happened to the old saying, thee without sin cast the first stone. There sure are a lot of haters on this board, absolutely no tolerance for different thoughts, ideas, or beliefs. Makes me sick.

[slippedcork]

"But Christians - who by the way still make up more than 60% of the US population - cannot utter a prayer in public, much less be given special privileges at school in order to accomodate their faith. On the contrary, Christian students are told they must squelch their faith when they step foot over the threshold of the school door." Bug guote.
Matthew chapter 6, versus 5 thru 8 cover this matter.

[slippedcork]

Bug,

I find religion a very difficult subject to debate over, so generally steer clear of it entirely on message boards.

However, gotta share a couple of thoughts on this, respectfully of course...

In my opinion...

(1) I disagree with Obama's decision to cancel the National Day of Prayer Ceremony at The White House in fears that it would offend someone. However, I think there is a slight difference between a National Day of Prayer by the Government, and a gathering of 50,000 Islamic worshipers who get together on Capitol Hill to pray. While "allowing" it to happen could be considered quasi-sactioning it, it's really not. If an independent group of Catholics wanted to get 50,000 together in DC and have a prayer service, I don't see any reason why they couldn't...similar to a Million-Man-March or any other gathering of folks on the Capitol. It's a public place. That doesn't mean the Government is favoring Catholic religion.

(2) Obama, though I am NOT a fan, didn't declare that the United States is no longer a Christian nation. He said (although he fumbled the prepared remarks somewhat), that the US is no longer JUST a Christian nation. The "Just" is a big word in that sentence, and most of the emails circulating are leaving that part out. I would have to agree wholeheartedly that our country is no longer JUST a Christian nation. It has not been for some time. You know that freedom from religious persecution was what brought the Pilgrims here, and you know that we have a very diverse makeup of religious populations in this country. I have no problem with that - Our men and women in uniform who fight and die to defend this country and that freedom to worship whomever you choose come from all of those religious backgrounds. It is what this country is made of - Christians, Jews, Muslims, Athiests, Budhists, etc, etc, etc. That's okay. You and I are free to be a Christian, while our neighbor is free to be Islamic. If they are passionate enough about their religious beliefs to gather and pray at their nation's capitol, then so be it. As long as it's peaceful and pro-America, what's the problem with that? I'm not saying that I agree with all of the Islamic folks, but you can be Islamic and Pro-American. I looked at the website you linked and part of the day on Capitol Hill is for Islamic American youth to take tours of the capitol, Library of Congress, and Supreme Court and learn a bit. That sounds pretty Pro-American to me, just saying.

At face value it's shocking to say that 50K Islamic worshipers are gathering on the capitol, but in reality I really don't think it's that big a deal.

Just my opinion.

I agree MR Splitshot with almost everything you said. Not a big deal at all.

[bassin_bug]

"But Christians - who by the way still make up more than 60% of the US population - cannot utter a prayer in public, much less be given special privileges at school in order to accomodate their faith. On the contrary, Christian students are told they must squelch their faith when they step foot over the threshold of the school door." Bug guote.
Matthew chapter 6, versus 5 thru 8 cover this matter.

The matter isn't covered quite that simply.

Matthew 6:5-8 is Jesus teaching on prayer. This is taken from the King James Version of The Expositors Study Bible. Explanation is written in parenthesis.
V5 " And when you pray (the necessity of prayer), you shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the Synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men (they do it for show). Verily I say unto you, They have their reward (meaning that there will be no reward from God in any capacity.
V6 But you (sincere Believer) when you pray, enter into your closet, and when you have shut your door, pray in secret to your Father which is in secret; and your Father which sees in secret shall reward you openly (the word "closet" is not to be taken literally, but means that our prayers must not be done for show; if we make God's interests our own, we are assured that He will make our interest His Own).
V7 But when you pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do (repeating certain phrases over and over, even hundreds of times); for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. (they will not be heard by God). Be not you therefore like unto them; for your Father (Heavenly Father) knows what things you have need of, before you ask Him (He is omniscient, meaning that He knows all things, past, present, and future).

How do you reconcile those scriptures with the parable Jesus taught in Luke 18:9-14? He used the prayers of two men, a Pharisee and a Publican, the Pharaisee prayed inside the Temple the Publican outside the Temple. The Pharisee was self-righteous and prayed for show, to be heard of men and to insult the Publican, and was rejected by God. The Publican prayed an humble prayer and was exhalted by God. Both prayed in public.

I'm sure that the lawmakers weren't trying to force the Christians to obey the Bible when they removed prayer and Bible reading from the schools, and the Ten Commandments and nativity scenes from public places.

[bassin_bug]

Hmmm, what ever happened to the old saying, thee without sin cast the first stone. There sure are a lot of haters on this board, absolutely no tolerance for different thoughts, ideas, or beliefs. Makes me sick.

Debates and opposing points of view does not make us haters.

[jcb]

\

Maybe I've been looking in the wrong areas. Could you please point me in the direction of where Moderate muslims have denounced all of these acts of terrorism?

Tom, a simple Google search will yield a bunch of examples.

[RoadToad]

\

Maybe I've been looking in the wrong areas. Could you please point me in the direction of where Moderate muslims have denounced all of these acts of terrorism?

Here's a pretty good example:
http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.c..._of_islam.html

If you take the time to look, you'll find plenty of others.

[kyfanatic]

Here's a pretty good example:
http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.c..._of_islam.html

If you take the time to look, you'll find plenty of others.

Talk is cheap,but walking the walk is a different story.Like I said take a bible or cross to any islamic country and try to worship a christian God,you know the God that this country was founded on? I'll bet I can show ten times more examples of violence and mistreatment of christians by muslims than you can in reverse.