True Story you have to read!!!

[bassin_bug]

They have had similar issues out West, where I am from. They finally passed a law that stated if you can access the water either through public land or through permission from a land owner, than once on the water or along its bank line (anywhere the water has once been), then you were not trespassing. This has allowed people to access water and go miles up into once private fishing areas. Needless to say, big fish are being caught that had never seen a lure before.

I say no one should own water, fish, or land under water. IMO. Did they own that water before it fell from the sky? Sure they may say they own the land under the water, but hey, my boat isn't touching that land.

Fish on!

-Rich

I didn't quite get your meaning of "I say no one should own water, fish, or land under water. IMO. Did they own that water before it fell from the sky? Sure they may say they own the land under the water, but hey, my boat isn't touching that land."

You wouldn't be talking about private lakes, right? I own a lake, the land around and under the water, I bought the fish that are in the lake, and most of the water didn't fall from the sky. It is fed by three springs that I also own. The land has been owned by my family for over 150 years, we have paid ad valorem (property) taxes on it ever since taxes have been in existence. I own every acre of it free and clear; not one cent of debt is against it.

I'm sure you are a more respectable man than to try and fish in a private lake without permission. Mine is posted, the State Game and Fish Officer is a family friend, and I have an attorney that can empty a tresspasser's pockets before he can sneeze.

[HURRICANEBOB]

I'm sure you are a more respectable man than to try and fish in a private lake without permission. Mine is posted, the State Game and Fish Officer is a family friend, and I have an attorney that can empty a tresspasser's pockets before he can sneeze.

Wow, a challenge: I bet $5 that Rich can get in and out and sneeze before the attorney can get his secretary to even call to schedule the initial court hearing.

Seriously, I don't think anybody was singling anybody out.

To help all understand, most courts resolve this issue using two distinct rules. A majority of jurisdictions follow the common law rule which states that owners of land underlying the surface waters of a man-made, non-navigable lake are entitled to control of only that portion of the lake lying over the land they own. So B-Bug, you are completely right as you own the whole she-bang by owning the land under and all around the lake. I agree with that.

The civil law rule states that an owner of land abutting or extending into portions of a lake, navigable or not, is entitled to the reasonable use and enjoyment of the entire lake. Me thinks this may be where Rich was coming from, or atleast that's how I took his comments, more in a mind set of "Littoral Rights" that aren't readily applied to waters where the owner owns all land around the non-navigable lake.

I'd get into raparian right, but I need another beer.

[bassin_bug]

Wow, a challenge: I bet $5 that Rich can get in and out and sneeze before the attorney can get his secretary to even call to schedule the initial court hearing.

Seriously, I don't think anybody was singling anybody out.

To help all understand, most courts resolve this issue using two distinct rules. A majority of jurisdictions follow the common law rule which states that owners of land underlying the surface waters of a man-made, non-navigable lake are entitled to control of only that portion of the lake lying over the land they own. So B-Bug, you are completely right as you own the whole she-bang by owning the land under and all around the lake. I agree with that.

The civil law rule states that an owner of land abutting or extending into portions of a lake, navigable or not, is entitled to the reasonable use and enjoyment of the entire lake. Me thinks this may be where Rich was coming from, or atleast that's how I took his comments, more in a mind set of "Littoral Rights" that aren't readily applied to waters where the owner owns all land around the non-navigable lake.

I'd get into raparian right, but I need another beer.

Are you trying to explain a state or federal civil law or is it a ruling on a specific case? If state, what state and which jurisdiction? I agree that if a lake is community owned, as in a gated community, all owners of land adjoining the water have a right to fish the entire lake. However, I don't agree that one owner should permit an outsider to fish the lake without permission of all the landowners.

I would accept your challenge but did you clear this with Rich or Budweiser? Personally, I think Rich is a better man than that, but I've known "Bud" to cause a mess of trouble. lol

The part I was unsure about is whether he was talking about ALL water or water that connects to a creek/lake/river.

Are you citing a state or federal civil law rule? We don't all live in the same state. I doubt that it is a federal law because fishing laws vary so much from state to state. If that were the case, would we not possibly have to buy a federal fishing license instead of a state fishing license? Just a thought.

I never thought Rich was singling me out because he doesn't know me. My question to him was a general question, not specific.

[bill28wagner]

Been in those situations before myself. On the other hand some people will suprise you.

I was playing golf at TPC Sawgrass. This places had some just fabulous houses on it. So naturally, there is a par 5 with a dogleg right. I though well "I'm a big stud and can cut the corner". So I let it rip. Bang*Crash. UH OH! broken window. I sneak around the corner and here stands this older man bout 80 with my ball in hand. So I walk over sheepishly and start to apologize thinking his is gonna go crazy on me. He cuts me off mid apology and says "look 30 years ago we'd be fightin' but honestly I broke my own window on this same hole. Knock over my beer and we'll still fight." So he drops the ball right between us in his back yard and says "play it where it lies".

he wouldn't let me pay for the window but i had to buy him a beer back at the clubhouse. GREAT GUY never would have expected from the looks of the house.

[HURRICANEBOB]

Are you trying to explain a state or federal civil law or is it a ruling on a specific case?

Clip was from a Harvard Law Database thesis paper summarizing the majority of findings from various state court and federal court cases.

But again, you owned the land before a non-navigable lake was placed on it, so neither raparian nor littoral rights apply in your case. Both of those principles apply to properties that adjoin to, or abutt up against a river, stream, creek, or lake.

[wishniwasfishn]

Some of those words I cannot say let alone know what they mean!!!

[bassin_bug]

Clip was from a Harvard Law Database thesis paper summarizing the majority of findings from various state court and federal court cases.

But again, you owned the land before a non-navigable lake was placed on it, so neither raparian nor littoral rights apply in your case. Both of those principles apply to properties that adjoin to, or abutt up against a river, stream, creek, or lake.

A college thesis paper can be one of two things, either a paper that a college senior writes, or more commonly, a dissertation written by a graduate candidate. Neither is a rule or a law but only a research paper that is required for graduation. They were once required to be in the student's field of study but now, mostly, can be on any chosen topic as long as the professor approves it. I have written both, one for my graduate degree, the other for my post-graduate degree.

You mentioned raparian and littoral RIGHTS and then you call them "principles" which are non-enforcable.l

[bassin_bug]

[QUOTE=bassin_bug;385378]A college thesis paper can be one of two things, either a paper that a college senior writes, or more commonly, a dissertation written by a graduate candidate. Neither is a rule or a law but only a research paper that is required for graduation. They were once required to be in the student's field of study but now, mostly, can be on any chosen topic as long as the professor approves it. I have written both, one for my graduate degree, the other for my post-graduate degree.

You mentioned riparion and litoral RIGHTS and then you call them "principles" which are non-enforcable unless there is a law to support them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


For guy above who didn't understand the meaning of some of the words here is the meaning of..........

Riparion Rights: Simply means "water rights" and it is different from what you have read on this thread. This website addresses the issues of water rights in the State of Michigan. They do not apply to any other state. http://www.mwai.org/WATER_LAW.htm

Litoral does not have "rights." It means the designation of or the intertidal ecological zone. A littoral zone means: along the shore. After you read the information on the web address I have provided, it will be plain and simple. The words litoral and littoral are spelled differently based on their application.

[HURRICANEBOB]

[QUOTE=bassin_bug;385386]

A college thesis paper can be one of two things, either a paper that a college senior writes, or more commonly, a dissertation written by a graduate candidate. Neither is a rule or a law but only a research paper that is required for graduation. They were once required to be in the student's field of study but now, mostly, can be on any chosen topic as long as the professor approves it. I have written both, one for my graduate degree, the other for my post-graduate degree.

You mentioned riparion and litoral RIGHTS and then you call them "principles" which are non-enforcable unless there is a law to support them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


For guy above who didn't understand the meaning of some of the words here is the meaning of..........

Riparion Rights: Simply means "water rights" and it is different from what you have read on this thread. This website addresses the issues of water rights in the State of Michigan. They do not apply to any other state. http://www.mwai.org/WATER_LAW.htm

Litoral does not have "rights." It means the designation of or the intertidal ecological zone. A littoral zone means: along the shore. After you read the information on the web address I have provided, it will be plain and simple. The words litoral and littoral are spelled differently based on their application.

The word "littoral" is used both as a noun and an adjective. It derives from the Latin noun litus, litoris, meaning "shore". (The doubled 't' is a late medieval innovation and the word is sometimes seen in the more classical-looking spelling 'litoral'.)

LAWS UNENFORCEABLE? Ever heard of a civil suit? Does the word "precedence" mean anything to you at all? Riparian and littoral rights apply equally in all states, its just how those state interpret and apply those "principles". Yes...Riparian and littoral rights do apply in KY, question that, please contact the Kentucky Real Estate Commission.

What was your degree in, wordsmithing?

How many times I got to say this, I agree with your basic premise that you own the lake and you can do with it what you want. Please make your next degree in English comprehension. Spock out.

[Grumpy]

Another post that is getting too personal and too close to the edge with derogatory names, arguements and disputes, so I am locking it now. If anyone has more to say, read it over again--everything on the subject has been said.

Grumpy