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Senior Member
Awesome Guys thanks.. I flirted with gettin into FNF last year but never committed ...this year I'm doin it though. I've got a great rainsuit and cold weather gear. I've got an extra shimano stradic 1000 layin around. so all I need is the rod/line/terminal tackle.......now....the important part!....what kind of structure and water depths do you like to hit...I know the water needs to be below something like 52 degrees... but what are some technical aspects after i get the gear lined up....
Senior Member
BTW...a Special Thanks to elnuts...your sharing of your extensive knowledge is greatly appreciated...you don't have to share it but I know I speak for alot of us on here that we really appreciate it alot...I hope you get to feelin better buddy!
Senior Member
I start pretty much every trip at 10-11 feet leader and catch most of my fish in less than 20 feet deep water depth. One thing to take into account is the fish are very dormant as are the shad, less is better. The fish will be feeding looking up most of the time this time of year so it is better to be a foot too shallow than a foot too deep on your leader. Read the article as to my thoughts on depth and presentation, which are more important than color of jig. I really don't think that the fish can make out the difference between Duck Feather Chartr and Red, Blue or Purple. It is all about confidence and the more confident you fish the bait the better it is. I will fish different types of structure and banks. I have 10-12 of my favorite spots that encompasses grass beds that sit in 10-20 feet of water (depending and the lake levels is depending on which ones I target to see which are holding fish), there is black shale banks and points, do nothing looking banks but that have some underwater cuts or trees on them, bluffs, humps/ledges and chunk rock banks. I will run these favorite spots early on day 1 of the trip trying to get a pattern or depth that the fish are holding. After running them, I will think back as to what produced then I have another 100 spots that are 5 miles of Holly Creek, where I put in most of the time, and will run the spots per the pattern that I have established. These fish will not move a lot in the winter just to save energy. If you can find shad on your depth finder then you can bet there will be some fish within the vacinity. I have heard from guides that say they idle around and run around looking for shad on their graphs before starting to fish. I can honestly say that I have NEVER done that in my life. I believe that big fish hang around in big fish spots and I continue to run the spots that I have and continue to have success, so I see no reason to change. I have been in the boat with Steve Headrick several times and know enough about the lake that spots he has shown me or told me about and I have caught fish from, I will pattern that spot to another on the lake and fish it as well. Most times I will catch fish there as well. If fish are on black shale points then run to every black shale point you can see and fish it, if they are 12 feet deep just above the grass beds then run that pattern. It takes time and Dale Hollow looks pretty much the same and every point or island looks like it will hold fish. Takes a lot of time and effort in learning the lake. I know it took me several years to get the maps together of my spots and I have the confidence in them that I will catch fish off them for many years to come. Big fish will stay in the same spots all the time. Even if one moves out, I think it replenishes with another. I also think Big Fish are homebodies and don't move very far. If they can get a place to ambush prey, grass, rock, flat next to deep water then they will be there most of their lives. Sort of like humans, we run around as young people moving from place to place then the older we get we settle down into our "retirement home". Again this is just my opinion but I can tell you that pretty much I have my favorite spots and they continue to give up 4+ pound fish and I don't see me changing until I stop catching Quality fish. I would rather catch 1 - 5 pounder than 25 - 12 inchers, again just me. I even have spots that are called my skunk killers. Guaranteed spots to get the skunk out of the boat but it will not be a good quality fish. Whenever I need a fish, I will hit one of these few spots knowing the bobber will go under and most likely she will be an "under" instead of an "over". I fish for "over's" 99% of the time. Spend time on the water with a good map, I prefer the Atlantic Mapping System map. A lot more detailed than any other map. Look for big flats next to deep water, points that have deep water on one side, transition areas with some sharp water changes in depths, while on the water look at transition areas from pea gravel to black shale with a depth change close by, chunk rock banks will hold Spotted Bass even if no smallmouth, etc. One last bit of advice, of the 40+ fish that I have landed over 5lbs, only 2 of these fish were caught after 11am. Maybe it is the spots that I fish but I think it is more due to the sunlight getting above the mountains by then. I play the sun ALL DAY LONG. If I have a choice in a shaded bank and sunny bank to fish then I ALWAYS pick the shaded bank. The BEST FNF bite is the first 2 hours of daylight. When I say this, I am making cast on spot #1 when I can't even see the bobber as the sun is coming up. If I am launching and I see the sun coming up then I AM LATE. Some people think that a half hour or hour does not make a difference but I can't tell you how important the bite is the first 2 hours of daylight. In reality, I could fish from sunup to 11am then take it to the cabin and sleep and put back in and fish from 2-dark. By playing the sun early and late, you have plenty of banks to fish the first 4 and last 2 hours of daylight. I plan on fishing deeper with jigs the hours in between in hopes of adding to my arsenal this winter for just like I love the FNF, there are more guys down there that do as well and better than me with just a jig fishing deeper and I plan on learning this as well. Hope this helped, ElnutOriginally Posted by MagikSmallie
Last edited by elnutsmalljaws; 10-14-2009 at 01:29 PM.
Senior Member
I will add a couple too.......
* There are days where the FNF will work ALL day......not many, but they do exist. On those days, throw it......but when the bite shuts down.......put it away.
* If you're good with a jig, use it. I think last year, I caught more fish on a jig than the fly. BUT last year was kinda funky for me.....LOTS of quality fnf and jig fish from November thru probably the first of January, and the NADA, nothing.....very few fish the 2-3 trips in Jan and Feb.
* I know LOTS of guys still fishing the fnf in March, but I put the gear up the first of march, and head to KY.......That BIG MOMMA march bite at KY RULES.
* Finally, if you've never done the winter fishing thing.....BE CAREFUL....you can never stress this enough. Going in the water, or having an issue on the water can be DEADLY, and understand the limits of you and your boat......
* HAVE FUN........and don't get discouraged......the first 8 times down there, before I actually had met people winter fishing, I pretty much stunk up the boat. I can count on 1 had the fish I caught the first 5 trips..........SKUNK, SKUNK, SKUNK, 2, 3.......and the next 3 were not much better......The next 10 though........WOW......
Later,
Geo
Senior Member
To sort of expand on what Geo said, a PERFECT FNF day is overcast, cloudy, never see the sun, very slight chop on the water - but not too much chop to make the bobber bounce too much therefore working the jig too much because you always have to remember you are imitating a very cold very sluggish small baitfish that could be on the verge of death. Last year was the toughest year for the FNF that I have seen since I started fishing it in 2004. Mainly due to the fact that the lake level was the third lowest EVER since the lake was built which made the water temps extremely low very fast. Usually temps are in the low 50's and upper 40's all thru December and don't reach the low 40's until Feb. Last year temps were in the mid 40's by late December and low 40's by mid January. The jig bite was more consistent I think due to the fact the lake was being pulled down so much due to the drought and the lack of water coming out of Cumberland that the Obey river, which feeds out of the Dale Hollow Dam was feeding the Cumberland river to keep it wet down thru Nashville and then over to Barkley Lake. The fish went deep, 30 feet deep, and it is hard to call a fish up to a 15 foot leader from that far away, they just don't move that much. That being said I caught better quality on average fish but not nearly the numbers. A typical day in my boat in the winter is 10-15 fish with 4-6 fish over 4lb each. Last year it was more like 8-10 fish per day but I was still getting the good 4 fish a day over 4lb or so, better average weight per fish but not as many. I was also having to find new spots to fish since the water was so low. My typical spots were sitting in 5 foot of water instead of 15 as normal. All I did was fish the same areas that I normally did but moved down the bank or out from the bank looking for the "usual" water depth that I thought fish should be in. I found a lot of stumps that I never knew existed and have them marked to make sure that I fish this year. Right now the lake is at a usual level and with all the rain they will keep spilling Cumberland so as to not effect Dale Hollow this winter. Hopefully we will have an average fall rainfall and this will hold true. Sure be glad when the dam is repaired at Cumberland because it effects Laurel and Dale Hollow the most. They are either spilling Cumberland or barely sending water thru and this is either backing up Laurel and Dale or drawing them down to compensate.
Senior Member
I'm glad to see other people say this. I'm not the expert you all are, but I've fished it quite a bit the last two winters, and both years I did much worse after mid-January. My best trips the last two years have been in December and right around the first of the year.
I don't really know how to use a jig, so I just throw the FNF all day. I will say that even though the bite seems better the first two hours of daylight (although I can hardly get my relatives out of bed to get there that early), I have caught my biggest fish later in the day.
That's just been my experience.
Senior Member
Again, just my opinion but the bite does slow way down in Mid January just because the water temps are dropping even lower and reach the mid to lower 40's by then. When the temps are this low, the Yellow Hoss Fly (Asprin Head Jig) bite turns on for me. The absolute ugliest bait ever invented is the Yellow Hoss Fly but I have caught many fish on it and even so much that I will be giving some of these in the door prize bags at the get together. Great bait for COLD water, don't ask me what it is supposed to imitate but if not for Steve Headrick I never would have believed this bait could catch anything. We were in his boat one day and pulled just off my favorite spot on the lake and there is a grass bed at the end of the area that I fish. We had caught a couple of fish on the fly and I had one of these Yellow Hoss Fly's tied on. He told me to cast it towards the grass bed. FIRST CAST, IF I AM LIEING I AM DIEING, and I set the hook on a 5-14 Smallie. My little 6 1/2 foot spinning rod with 6lb Flourocarbon had a wonderful time in fighting this fish. NO JOKE, FIRST CAST. I took 3sons out the next day and caught 3 on it. Fish it just like a jig on the bottom and these fish will hammer it. The same day with Headrick and we are fishing a ledge with stumps in about 20 feet of water. He is throwing the Yellow Hoss Fly, gets hung up on one of the stumps, has the boat over top of it working his rod and it pops free, his rod breaks loose, then re-loads just as quick for a 3 1/2 pounder hammered it just as it busted free from the stump. My only guess is the fish was looking at the hung jig the whole time, it un-hangs and BOOM. Like I said one UGLY bait but it catches fish and I have several in my box all are 1/4 oz Yellow in Color. Punisher Lures makes Brown, Green, White and other colors of the same jig but I only use the Yellow color.
Senior Member
Elnut I fish with know1 on cumberland during the winter and was just wondering whether you sit out and throw towards the bank or sit in the depth of water you want and throw down the bank to keep your bait in that ideal water depth longer....thanks for any info
Senior Member
The most efficient way to fish would be if you knew the target depth then parallel the bank and cast straight the front of the boat but hard to cast the fly that way and not snagging the motor and everything else. I fish the same way whether there is anyone with me or not. I will put my boat in whatever depth needed so my cast ends up in water a bit shallower than my target depth. I have casted so shallow that my jig is on bottom and I have to drag it out to where the bobber will stand up. I cast at a 45 degree angle out the front of my boat, keep the line tight CONSTANTLY by ever so slowly CONSTANTLY reeling my bait and I keep my trolling motor going ever so slowly so that the jig is right in front of me the last 1/3 of the cast as I am working it. When I fish 3 people in my boat, I will cast out front of the boat, the guy in the middle cast out in front of me and the guy in teh back cast out in front of the middle guy. Since I keep the trolling motor running, we are all making cast into new virgin water every time. For the next cast by the guy in the back will now be in front of me and the middle guy and me will obviously casting into new water. I will say that if my bites come early in the cast, I will move closer and make sure I work the bait even shallower or if my bites come later in the cast, I will move out and work it a bit deeper. I don't go shallow and throw deep for most of my bites come in 10-20 feet deep water, with 10-12 foot leader. Since I like fishing depth breaks, it would be hard for me it to get shallow enough and still hit my target area. The fly is a simple way of fishing but has a LOT of small details to it. My Dad calls it Bobber Fishing and it is true, but a lot more to it than just a bobber, hook and nightcrawler. One thing I have learned is to fish the SWEET spot of the bank first, make a few cast and if no fish then MOVE ON to the next spot. I see people fishing all the way down the 200 yard bank cast after cast. If you are catching fish this is fine but I fish the SWEET spot of the bank, if I catch fish, then will back out and fish before and after that spot just to make sure the bank is not loaded with fish. I will circle and fish the same area, 5-6 times catching fish on each pass. One morning I stayed in one little pocket the size of the average 1/3 acre yard and caught 13 fish with a 6-2, 3 over 5, and 3 over 4. Kept going around and around catching a fish here and there pass after pass. I have only fished the fly at Cumberland a couple of times and never had any good luck with it. One, I can't get away from Dale Hollow and all the good success that I have there, and two, Cumberland is a very difficult lake to fish the fly (I would think). I like fishing the grass beds, Black Shale, stumps, ledges and humps that Dale Hollow has that Cumberland does not. Never put the time in Cumberland and as long as Dale Hollow is wet, don't see me doing it either. Only 30 miles or so more to drive and I can be at Dale versus Cumberland and it is well worth that for me versus what I know about Dale versus Cumberland. Are you the fella coming with Know1 to the get together?
Senior Member
Granted, I've fished Cumberland more, but I'd hardly say I'm an expert having only fished it 15 or so days in the last 2 years...if that much.
But I do have to say that I've fished 3 full days on Dale Hollow with the FNF - at the get-together 2 years ago with Boone and 2 full days with my brother later that same year - and I've only caught 1 single 15" Smallmouth. It's difficult for me to drive those extra 30 miles when I've had such poor luck.
I'm hoping my luck and opinion changes at the get-together this year!
Senior Member
I fished Cumberland at night when I first got my boat in 2003 and the winter of 2003. Found Dale Hollow winter of 2004 and will never intentionally wet a line for Smallies in Cumberland again. Quality and Quantity is way much better on Dale. The times I did fish for Smallies with the fly in the winter was killing time while we were Striper fishing up in the creeks pulling boards and live bait. Once you learn Dale, you will happily drive those extra miles. We will see each other at the get together and I can mark you some spots near the Wolfe River if you want to put in at Wisdom Dock to save some miles and try. I mainly fish within 5 mile radius of Holly Creek, but will venture up into the Wolfe if my areas are not producing or if there is a major water temp or clarity difference. Way too much structure, grass, humps and ledges on Dale to fish versus Cumberland. I know there is some good quality fish in Cumberland but as long as there are Striper and it is king of Cumberland, then the Smallmouth population will never be of the quality as it is in Dale Hollow. Freshwater swimming sharks is what I call Stripers, swim and eat is pretty mush what they do. The Largemouth population thrives in Dale just because the Smallies get so much attention like people like me. Never spent one day targeting Largemouth at Dale, except when I am night fishing deep grass beds and ledges, then I am just as likely to catch a Greenfish versus Brown. Smallie is still king of Dale Hollow and I hope it always is. They even stopped stocking Muskie in Dale Hollow, which I think helps the Bass population. Plus the stocking of Rainbow Trout in the lake helps the Bass Population. A Bass can eat a fish like a Trout up to half its length. This means a 20" Smallie, trophy anywhere, can eat a 10" Rainbow, which are plentiful in Dale Hollow. If Stripers were stocked in Dale Hollow, the Trout population would go away as would the quality of the rest of the fish. I read somewhere that Lake Trout went extinct in Cumberland and it was due to the Striper Stocking (could be wrong on this but this is what I think I read somewhere). Dale Hollow for me for she still hold 3 of the top 5 biggest fish caught of all time including the one that I chase everyday on the water, 11-15 Hayes fish. They say the next record will come from one of the California lakes but I still think it will be at Dale Hollow. Be some guy trolling for Muskie with a 12" Rainbow Trout imitating lure on a 7' Heavy Action rod with 17lb test. This is the only setup that will hold a 12 pounder. My little FNF rod would have its work to land the record, BUT I SURE WOULD LIKE A SHOT AT HER
Senior Member
I'm not coming to the get together...would love to dont get me wrong but with work im just not sure i could make it....if i did i wouldnt get down there until probably 10 or so friday night.....i have never set foot on dale on my life and would love to give it a try but we have decent success, or know1 has decent success, on cumberland....i'm just kinda the guide...guess i don't hold my mouth right
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