The End of Time

[apb]

In about 7.5 billion years the sun will swell to a red giant and engulf the earth. That will be the final end. Probably can consider several other ends too, such as the end of all life, all human life, etc. The latest scientific estimates are about .5 billion years for humans.

As far as Rich's question, morals are something that evolved with humans. Its how humans are able to interact with each other as social creatures. I've seen many cases of non-religious people doing good and religious people doing bad. Certainly plenty of cases of the reverse. Religion neither helps or hinders people from doing good or evil.

Andrew

[Hlleonard]

I think the ..end of time...thingy is a reference by most people to the end of the human race as apb may have pointed out....I think the planet will still support life for a long time after the human race can no longer survive....In actuality we may have already gone past the point where we can survive...humans are the only creature that I know that have to use artificial means to survive ...we have to wear clothes and build heated shelters in order to not die from exposure..... unlike all other animals that I know of.

[HURRICANEBOB]

In about 7.5 billion years the sun will swell to a red giant and engulf the earth.
Andrew

Wow! My Fannie Mae stock ought to be worth millions by then!

[RICHYD4U]

As far as Rich's question, morals are something that evolved with humans. Its how humans are able to interact with each other as social creatures. I've seen many cases of non-religious people doing good and religious people doing bad. Certainly plenty of cases of the reverse. Religion neither helps or hinders people from doing good or evil.

Andrew

Interesting, so moral judgement was developed as we evolved from apes in order to get along. I too believe that there is a right and wrong, a moral compass in all of us no matter what our beliefs are......it is the Light of Christ.

I would feel safe to say that criminals and murderers are not "religious" people.

True no one is perfect, if we were, we would be Gods. For he is truly the only perfect being.

I would have to disagree with your statement that religion neither helps or hinders people from doing good or bad. I can't speek for other religions, but Christianity teaches nothing but loving thy neighbor and obedience to God's commandments. This teaching helps me every day to be a good and moral person. Without it, I know that I wouldn't be as good a person as I am today. That is why I am amazed at how atheists and scientologists can remain morally clean, although then....everyone's definition of moral clean is different. What I consider to be morally clean may be completely different than that of the atheist or scientologist. It is all in one's perspective I guess.

Thanks for the answer, always curious as to what others believe and why.

-Rich

[apb]

Interesting, so moral judgement was developed as we evolved from apes in order to get along.

Short answer, yes. Those morals that allowed humans to work together helped them survive, so were passed on to the next generation and so forth. As an example, one common thread that we see in all hunter-gatherer socieities is the sharing of food. Given that we see this cross-culturally, it suggests this is something that is part of humans, it helped them survive.

...I would have to disagree with your statement that religion neither helps or hinders people from doing good or bad. I can't speek for other religions, but Christianity teaches nothing but loving thy neighbor and obedience to God's commandments. This teaching helps me every day to be a good and moral person. Without it, I know that I wouldn't be as good a person as I am today...

Good points. Guess we are looking at it from two different perspectives. When I say religion neither helps or hinders people from doing good or bad, what I mean is that, just because someone is religious does not mean they will not do bad things. For example, the stories of pediphile priests a few years ago. The priests were religious people, but their religion did not keep them from doing evil things. Likewise, you will find many people in jail who would consider themselves religious people, they just messed up.
A lot of what I have read in the New Testiment certainly is in line with what you indicate: love thy neighbor, do unto others, etc. Topics that we can both agree are of good moral value. However, look at some of the stories in the Old Testiment. For example, the story of Lot. There is much about that story (e.g., offering up his daughters to the masses, incest) that we would not see as moral. This suggests that, while the bible can certainly provide some good moral direction, there is something outside of religion that shapes our moral values. I would argue that this something is genetic. Humans have the capacity for both good and bad. I have no doubt that religious people who do good things would still do those same good things without religion.

The way I see it is that a person of good moral charactor will do the right thing even when no one is looking or no one will know. It is so much a part of who they are that they do the right thing because that is who they are. I am amazed at the people who say things along the lines of: if one does not believe in god, then there is nothing stopping them from doing evil. These people scare me. Suggests that these people would do all kinds of evil if they were not somehow forced to do right.

Interesting topic. I could go on, but have work to do. Be back after the new year if you want to continue discussing this.

Have a great New Years everyone!

Andrew

[Hlleonard]

Religion is a fascinating topic.....Doesn't matter which side of the fence you are...

"if one does not believe in god, then there is nothing stopping them from doing evil. These people scare me. Suggests that these people would do all kinds of evil if they were not somehow forced to do right."

That is scary to think about isn't it......As far as criminals being religious, I guess it would depend on your definition of "religious" ...If it means believing and practicing what the bible teaches then I doubt there are many religious "criminals and murderers" but if it simply means just believing in a god then I know a few folks that have spent about as much time in jail as out of it who say they believe there is a god and a heaven and hell all that stuff....

I'm probably going to get beat with a switch for saying this but I think the farther you get away from civilization ( not just the jungles in other countries but the ares of this country also that are a little farther out in the sticks so to speak) the bigger the percentage of people who claim to believe in the higher power concept...