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Senior Member
The Freedom Tower, for those who do not know is the building supposed to be built on the spot of the WTC.....
I guess it's not too bad.......the Saudi Prince actually didn't "ORDER" the destruction of the WTC......he just SAT back and allowed the HATE that did destroy it to fester in Madrassas in his CRAPHOLE country........
GOTTA LOVE IT.
Wake UP people.......they HATE US.........always have, ALWAYS WILL.
Senior Member
Must be why their building a mega mosque across the street. Thats going to look great in the NY skyline.
Senior Member
I have never believed for a second that the Saudi's are our allies,(friends). They like most ALL Arab countries hate our last gut.
Sorry Libs, you can call me an uneducated redneck if you want, I TRUST NONE OF THEM AND I NEVER WILL!!!!!!!!!!!
Super Moderator
Someone want to add a link to a story or supply some more info so we know what got your panties all bunched up this time.
Andrew
Senior Member
I don't need a link to validate my opinion on my post. Do I think all of them are radical murderers..........Of course not. Do I think that deep down in their gut and in their heart do all of them hate us and our Western ways.................Sure I do, sorry charlie, that's just how I see it.Originally Posted by apb
Senior Member
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...ilt.html?cat=7
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/14...wer-arab-ties/
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org...pub_detail.asp
http://therealdeal.com/newyork/artic...le-east-charge
GOOD reading RIGHT there.............eh.
Of course......I'd LOVE to see this type of CRITICAL story on MSNBC, CNN, CBS, ABC, etc, etc. but you know what......the Communist, Socialist, Obamunist............or WHATEVER the hell you call it media in this country totally *****.........
Later,
Geo
Senior Member
Mhall you are a REDNECK!!!! But that is why you always have a seat in my boat and are cold beer when ever you want.
Senior Member
Re: UNREAL..........The Freedom Tower may be owned by Saudi Arabia
Back at ya Ryan, lol.
Super Moderator
[quote MHall] I don't need a link to validate my opinion on my post... [/quote]
I never suggested that you did need a link to validate your opinion. Given the original post by Geo, I thought it might be of use to actually see what all the fuss was about before forming my own opinion on the matter. I guess I'm just one of those wierd people who actually want to have some data before jumping to conclusions.
As far as the story that Geo got all bent out of shape about, after reading the links he posted, it really seems like a non-story and people blowing things completely out of proportion. The typical partisian hyperbol that we've come to expect from Geo.
From the Fox story: "...the bi-state agency that operates the World Trade Center is looking for a private partner to help manage the 1,776-foot office tower that is being built at Ground Zero — and one of two companies under consideration may have ties to the Middle East...."
Ok, this seems to contradict Geo's suggestion that a Middle East country will have ownership of that building. Note the MAY have ties, and the HELP MANAGE parts. Digging further into the story it becomes clear that there are some ME ties, but they have no controling aspect.
A few key points from one of Geo's cited articles (http://therealdeal.com/newyork/artic...le-east-charge ):
According to a spokesperson for Related, Mubadala and Olayan are merely owners of the company's subordinated debt -- and that relationship has been public for more than two years....
"They have no management control, no board representation and no active role in our developments, including [One World Trade Center]."
....Indeed, ties between sovereign wealth funds and most major developers in the city have been widely reported. ...."It's not an uncommon relationship," said Gary Barnett, president of Extell Development, who sold a majority stake in his hotel and condominium project at 157 West 57th Street to Abu Dhabi-controlled Aabar Investment last year.
..."I don't think that in any way, shape, or form Mubadala controls what Related does," Barnett said. "I don't see any issue at all in [the company's bid] on the World Trade Center."
Sooo, basically the story boils down to: Rebuilding of the "Freedom Tower" has taken longer than expected; the Port Authority of NY and NJ has been looking for someone to step in and provide funds and assist in managing the tower; one of the companies bidding (Related) is a conglomerate that consists of a number of firms, one of these firms does have Middle Eastern ties; the ME firm will have no real control over the tower, they are just part of an organization that is providing funding to build the tower; the new funding should help to put the project back on track. Given this, I see no reason for all the hate and outrage. Seems to me just the mere mention of a Middle East country set off a knee-jerk reaction by some on the board. May be someone can point out why I am wrong and why the outrage? Further, if this a real problem, prehaps someone can provide a solution that is in line with the US constitution and law.
Andrew
Senior Member
Andrew...........Man, I don't see how you DON'T see a conflict here.
Just like you DON'T see a problem with building a mosque 100 yards away from GROUND ZERO.
I'll TELL you what............I sure hope you're not BEGGING and PLEADING for your life when some HATE FILLED FREAK Muslim is cutting your head off.
I call BS to all those who say the Mosque is being built as a tribute to those who died in 9/11........RATHER it is being built as a JIHAD Memory of those that committed the GREATEST attack ever on western soil.
Sorry BUT this is how I feel.
AND for the record........there are NO PEACEFUL Muslims........
[I]
"It is the same whether or not you forwarn them [the unbelievers], they will have no faith" (2:6).
"God will mock them and keep them long in sin, blundering blindly along" (2:15).
A fire "whose fuel is men and stones" awaits them (2:24).
They will be "rewarded with disgrace in this world and with grievous punishment on the Day of Resurrection" (2:85).
"God's curse be upon the infidels!" (2:89).
"They have incurred God's most inexorable wrath. An ignominious punishment awaits [them]" (2:90).
"God is the enemy of the unbelievers" (2:98).
"The unbelievers among the People of the Book [Christians and Jews], and the pagans, resent that any blessing should have been sent down to you from your Lord" (2:105).
"They shall be held up to shame in this world and sternly punished in the hereafter" (2:114).
"Those to whom We [God] have given the Book, and who read it as it ought to be read, truly believe in it; those that deny it shall assuredly be lost" (2:122).
"[We] shall let them live awhile, and then shall drag them to the scourge of the Fire. Evil shall be their fate" (2:126).
"The East and the West are God's. He guides whom He will to a straight path" (2:142).
"Do not say that those slain in the cause of God are dead. They are alive, but you are not aware of them" (2:154).
"But the infidels who die unbelievers shall incur the curse of God, the angels, and all men. Under it they shall remain for ever; their punishment shall not be lightened, nor shall they be reprieved" (2:162).
"They shall sigh with remorse, but shall never come out of the Fire" (2:168).
"The unbelievers are like beasts which, call out to them as one may, can hear nothing but a shout and a cry. Deaf, dumb, and blind, they understand nothing" (2:172).
"Theirs shall be a woeful punishment" (2:175).
"How steadfastly they seek the Fire! That is because God has revealed the Book with truth; those that disagree about it are in extreme schism" (2:176).
"Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage. . . . f they attack you put them to the sword. Thus shall the unbelievers be rewarded: but if they desist, God is forgiving and merciful. Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme. But if they desist, fight none except the evil-doers"(2:190–93).
"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. But you may hate a thing although it is good for you, and love a thing although it is bad for you. God knows, but you know not" (2:216).
"They will not cease to fight against you until they force you to renounce your faith—if they are able. But whoever of you recants and dies an unbeliever, his works shall come to nothing in this world and in the world to come. Such men shall be the tenants of Hell, wherein they shall abide forever. Those that have embraced the Faith, and those that have fled their land and fought for the cause of God, may hope for God's mercy" (2:217–18).
"God does not guide the evil-doers" (2:258).
"God does not guide the unbelievers" (2:264).
"The evil-doers shall have none to help them" (2:270).
"God gives guidance to whom He will" (2:272).
"Those that deny God's revelations shall be sternly punished; God is mighty and capable of revenge" (3:5).
"As for the unbelievers, neither their riches nor their children will in the least save them from God's judgment. They shall become fuel for the Fire" (3:10).
"Say to the unbelievers: ‘You shall be overthrown and driven into Hell—an evil resting place!'" (3:12).
"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam. . . . He that denies God's revelations should know that swift is God's reckoning" (3:19).
"Let the believers not make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful—he that does this has nothing to hope for from God—except in self-defense" (3:28).
"Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people. They will spare no pains to corrupt you. They desire nothing but your ruin. Their hatred is evident from what they utter with their mouths, but greater is the hatred which their breasts conceal" (3:118).
"If you have suffered a defeat, so did the enemy.We alternate these vicissitudes among mankind so that God may know the true believers and choose martyrs from among you (God does not love the evil-doers); and that God may test the faithful and annihilate the infidels" (3:140).
"Believers, if you yield to the infidels they will drag you back to unbelief and you will return headlong to perdition. . . .We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. . . . The Fire shall be their home" (3:149-51).
"Believers, do not follow the example of the infidels, who say of their brothers when they meet death abroad or in battle: ‘Had they stayed with us they would not have died, nor would they have been killed.' God will cause them to regret their words. . . . If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, God's forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches they amass" (3:156).
"Never think that those who were slain in the cause of God are dead. They are alive, and well provided for by their Lord; pleased with His gifts and rejoicing that those they left behind, who have not yet joined them, have nothing to fear or to regret; rejoicing in God's grace and bounty. God will not deny the faithful their reward" (3:169).
"Let not the unbelievers think that We prolong their days for their own good. We give them respite only so that they may commit more grievous sins. Shameful punishment awaits them" (3:178).
"Those that suffered persecution for My sake and fought and were slain: I shall forgive them their sins and admit them to gardens watered by running streams, as a reward from God; God holds the richest recompense. Do not be deceived by the fortunes of the unbelievers in the land. Their prosperity is brief. Hell shall be their home, a dismal resting place" (3:195–96).
"God has cursed them in their unbelief" (4:46).
"God will not forgive those who serve other gods besides Him; but He will forgive whom He will for other sins. He that serves other gods besides God is guilty of a heinous sin. . . . Consider those to whom a portion of the Scriptures was given. They believe in idols and false gods and say of the infidels: ‘These are better guided than the believers'" (4:50–51).
"Those that deny Our revelation We will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise" (4:55–56).
"Believers, do not seek the friendship of the infidels and those who were given the Book before you, who have made of your religion a jest and a pastime" (5:57).
"That which is revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase the wickedness and unbelief of many among them. We have stirred among them enmity and hatred, which will endure till the Day of Resurrection" (5:65).
"God does not guide the unbelievers" (5:67).
"That which is revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase the wickedness and unbelief of many among them. But do not grieve for the unbelievers" (5:69).
"You see many among them making friends with unbelievers. Evil is that to which their souls prompt them. They have incurred the wrath of God and shall endure eternal torment. . . .You will find that the most implacable of men in their enmity to the faithful are the Jews and the pagans, and that the nearest in affection to them are those who say: ‘We are Christians'" (5:80–82).
"[T]hose that disbelieve and deny Our revelations shall become the inmates of Hell" (5:86).
"[T]hey deny the truth when it is declared to them: but they shall learn the consequences of their scorn" (6:5).
"We had made them more powerful in the land than yourselves [the Meccans], sent down for them abundant water from the sky and gave them rivers that rolled at their feet. Yet because they sinned We destroyed them all and raised up other generations after them. If We sent down to you a Book inscribed on real parchment and they touched it with their own hands, the unbelievers would still assert: ‘This is but plain sorcery.' They ask: ‘Why has no angel been sent down to him [Muhammad]?' If We had sent down an angel, their fate would have been sealed and they would have never been reprieved" (6:5–8).
"Who is more wicked than the man who invents falsehoods about God or denies His revelations?" (6:21).
"Some of them listen to you. But We have cast veils over their hearts and made them hard of hearing lest they understand your words. They will believe in none of Our signs, even if they see them one and all. When they come to argue with you the unbelievers say: ‘This is nothing but old fictitious tales.' They forbid it and depart from it. They ruin none but themselves, though they do not perceive it. If you could see them when they are set before the Fire! They will say: ‘Would that we could return! Then we would not deny the revelations of our Lord and would be true believers' 6:23–27).
"But if they were sent back, they would return to that which they have been forbidden. They are liars all" (6:29).
"Had God pleased He would have given them guidance, one and all" (6:35).
"Deaf and dumb are those that deny Our revelations: they blunder about in darkness. God confounds whom He will, and guides to a straight path whom He pleases." (6:39)
"[T]heir hearts were hardened, and Satan made their deeds seem fair to them. And when they had clean forgotten Our admonition We granted them all that they desired; but just as they were rejoicing in what they were given, We suddenly smote them and they were plunged into utter despair. Thus were the evil-doers annihilated. Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe!" (6:43–45).
"[T]hose that deny Our revelations shall be punished for their misdeeds" (6:49).
"Such are those that are damned by their own sins. They shall drink scalding water and be sternly punished for their unbelief" (6:70).
"Could you but see the wrongdoers when death overwhelms them! With hands outstretched, the angels will say: ‘Yield up your souls. You shall be rewarded with the scourge of shame this day, for you have said of God what is untrue and scorned His revelations" (6:93).
"Avoid the pagans. Had God pleased, they would not have worshipped idols. . . . We will turn away their hearts and eyes from the Truth since they refused to believe in it at first. We will let them blunder about in their wrongdoing. If We sent the angels down to them, and caused the dead to speak to them, . . . and ranged all things in front of them, they would still not believe, unless God willed otherwise. . . . Thus have We assigned for every prophet an enemy: the devils among men and jinn, who inspire each other with vain and varnished falsehoods. But had your Lord pleased, they would not have done so. Therefore leave them to their own inventions, so that the hearts of those who have no faith in the life to come may be inclined to what they say and, being pleased, persist in their sinful ways" (6:107–12).
"The devils will teach their votaries to argue with you. If you obey them you shall yourselves become idolaters. . . . God will humiliate the transgressors and mete out to them a grievous punishment for their scheming" (6:121–25).
"If God wills to guide a man, He opens his bosom to Islam. But if he pleases to confound him, He makes his bosom small and narrow as though he were climbing up to heaven. Thus shall God lay the scourge on the unbelievers" (6:125).
Directly from the Koran.
Later,
Geo
Super Moderator
Ummm, not what I said at all about the mosque. I believe what I said that that I had mixed feelings about it, could see both sides, but thought it was better that those who were closer to the scene make the decision.
As far as the freedom tower, there are plenty of other buildings close to that same area that have similar finantial arrangements. Again, the stories that you posted even state that the ME companies "have no management control, no board representation and no active role in our developments, including [One World Trade Center]." Where is the conflict.
Nice koran cut and paste. Read the old testiment in the bible again and you can find similar quotes concerning christianity. So, by your definition then, there are no peaceful christians. I don't believe that for a second. You'll find both christians and muslims condemming the acts a few radical muslims.
Andrew
Be a little more optimistic guys. If they own or have enven part ownership in the freedom building, maybe they will be less likely to blow that up.
Maybe we ought sell all govt buildings to the Saudi's and lease them back. That way, they'd be blowing up their own investments if they attacked one our our govt agencies.
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