Emergency Regulations Lake Cumberland-Striper

[apb]

btw, I fish for both smallies and stripers at Cumberland.

Andrew

[Jbyrd]

Actually, it would not help out Cumberland. Probably have the reverse affect. Stripers diet is 99.99999% shad and alewifes. They use portions of the lake not used by other species (bass, bluegill, crappie, etc.). Alewifes and shad spend a lot of their lives over open water, so cannot be used by many other species for large portions of the year. If you let alewifes and shad take over the lake they'll compete directly with the fry of bass, bluegill and other species. Stripers keep the alewife/shad populations down and also limit the size of gizzard shad (they get over 18 inches).

KR, the lake levels is an Army Corp deal. Fish and wildlife have no control over that. They have been working with the bass at Cumberland (and other lakes). For example, the smallmouth limits were increased several years back and has improved the smallie sizes in the lake. I think you'll find that different species on different lakes will get different amounts of fish and wildlife time/funding. Musky are the big thing at Cave Run, Striper at Cumberland, Smallmouth at Dale Hollow, for example. There is only so much time/money that they have, so they cannot manage all fish at all lakes the same.

Andrew

We will never know but I tend to disagree. If there where no stripers to compete with the bass for the shad population think of the numbers and size of the spotted bass, and smallmouth. Good case in point Dale hollow, more ,and some of the biggest ky bass around period. How many small mouth are they stocking in Dale Hollow? NONE They don't have too the population has less competition for forage mainly shad and alewives . Heck one lake even closer. Laurel lake. Size and numbers UNREAL for a lake of that size. What is different from those lakes and cumberland STRIPERS Seems that only lake cumberland is suffering and everyone blames it on the ****. It was getting bad before the draw down. Trust me I have fished cumberland for 30 years. As for letting shad and alewives take over the lake the bass population will control that if it is available. I E DALE HOLLOW

[apb]

Shad and alewifes both spend a good deal of their lives well away from shore, out over open water. Not many bass to feed on them out there. I have only been fishing the lake for 15 years. The stories that I hear are that the bass and striper fishing were both better in the 80's. The last state record striper was caught out of there in 85. If the 80's were the best time for stripers, and the bass fishing was also good, then the decline in bass fishing over the last few years is not the result of the stripers. If the bass decline is a direct result of the stripers, then the bass fishing in Cumberland would have been at its best in the early 90's when the striper fishing was way down. Note that striper fishing, at least for me, has not been real good the last few years.

There are many other factors that come into play for both species. As someone else mentioned, large influxes of water early spring when bass are spawning plays a role in the bass spawn, and subsequently, the bass fishing 5-6 years down the road when that year class starts hitting keeper size. As these upland lakes get older, you get less timber and other structure. That has an affect on the bass, crappie, and bluegill populations. Also add to that the increase in the numbers of people fishing the lake. It seems that stripers become the scapegoat anytime bass fishing is down. Plenty of other factors need to be considered. I know on Norris Lake a number of years back a number of the local bass clubs filed suit to get the stocking of stripers on Norris stopped as they felt the stripers were to blame for the decline in bass (e.g., the stripers were eating the bass). A study done by Mississippi State University found no evidence that the stripers were eating bass. Cut open over 1000 stripers to check stomach contents and found none with bass in them. There were a couple of crappie, 6 bluegill (3 with holes in the nose indicating they were used as bait). Everything else was shad. Bass, in contrast, were eating other bass. Spots averaged something like 17 percent of their was bass. Smallies were around 3 percent, and LM were somewhere between.

For most of the year, stripers do not use the same parts of the lake as bass, so they really do not compete with bass.

Andrew

[PRO V LE]

Andrew I wish you luck, these guy's do not listen to proven facts and hundreds of studies on this subject. They just blame their poor fishing skills on the Striper.

[peter]

A while back I asked Andrew (apb) a question and he gave me a full page detailed reply. I commented to him, "you're like a scientist" and he replied, "I am a scientist" and thus his scientific approach to fishing is evident.

[Jbyrd]

A while back I asked Andrew (apb) a question and he gave me a full page detailed reply. I commented to him, "you're like a scientist" and he replied, "I am a scientist" and thus his scientific approach to fishing is evident.

Piece of paper on the wall doesn't mean he has a clue what is going on on the water. Not calling him dumb in any way shape or form !! But I think TOO many kdfwr decisions are made by people who study something and don't actually get out in the muck. CASE IN POINT OUR DEER HERD but that is another story, I have been on cumberland 2-3 times a week every week (weather and wife permitting) lol for over 35 years. Seen the highs and lows . Fished thru the low water in the 70's Until the stocking program got major funding and the number of stripers being put in was increased they grew like crazy. Also along the lines of my point about competeing for forage that also applies to the stripers them selves..

[Jbyrd]

Shad and alewifes both spend a good deal of their lives well away from shore, out over open water. Not many bass to feed on them out there. I have only been fishing the lake for 15 years. The stories that I hear are that the bass and striper fishing were both better in the 80's. The last state record striper was caught out of there in 85. If the 80's were the best time for stripers, and the bass fishing was also good, then the decline in bass fishing over the last few years is not the result of the stripers. If the bass decline is a direct result of the stripers, then the bass fishing in Cumberland would have been at its best in the early 90's when the striper fishing was way down. Note that striper fishing, at least for me, has not been real good the last few years.

There are many other factors that come into play for both species. As someone else mentioned, large influxes of water early spring when bass are spawning plays a role in the bass spawn, and subsequently, the bass fishing 5-6 years down the road when that year class starts hitting keeper size. As these upland lakes get older, you get less timber and other structure. That has an affect on the bass, crappie, and bluegill populations. Also add to that the increase in the numbers of people fishing the lake. It seems that stripers become the scapegoat anytime bass fishing is down. Plenty of other factors need to be considered. I know on Norris Lake a number of years back a number of the local bass clubs filed suit to get the stocking of stripers on Norris stopped as they felt the stripers were to blame for the decline in bass (e.g., the stripers were eating the bass). A study done by Mississippi State University found no evidence that the stripers were eating bass. Cut open over 1000 stripers to check stomach contents and found none with bass in them. There were a couple of crappie, 6 bluegill (3 with holes in the nose indicating they were used as bait). Everything else was shad. Bass, in contrast, were eating other bass. Spots averaged something like 17 percent of their was bass. Smallies were around 3 percent, and LM were somewhere between.

For most of the year, stripers do not use the same parts of the lake as bass, so they really do not compete with bass.

Andrew

In some way you are proving my point. Just think how many MORE stripers are in the lake now than in the 80's. As for the bass not using the middle of the lake to forage just ask FISH FINDER GENERAL he makes good money on DALE (no stripers) catching fish that are not "using " the middle of the lake. Also ask the striper guides how many BIG small mouth they catch that NOT using the same water as stripers. IT will astound you. Why do you think the bass fishing is so tough right now. The majority of them are out in the middle under the shad.
Isn't it funny how you think the bass have died and then BAM in the spring they are laying everywhere trying to spawn. The bass in cumberland have adapted to the shad being in the middle. and to say that stripers don't compete for the forage is ridiculous.
Ok back to your study at norris if only ONE bass showed up in there bellies that is one that would have still been in the lake if no stripers where there. But i still think the impact of stripers on bass populations is competition for forage. Stripers eat and poo. End of story. If the kill is not to significate do me a favor in about 2-3 weeks be around ramseys point area around day light and watch the striper jumps. ACRES of them and all will be between 15-20 inches . I mean ACRES up at one time.

[Big Foot]

600 dead stripers dip up on Thursday. By kdfw will be many more I'm next few weeks. They need to close striper fishing till better conditions, cumberland is in bad shape all numbers of game fish are way down

[KR]

GEE Pro V LE could you please take me and show me how to catch them since my fish catching skills are so bad. You are a jerk my friend, and absolute JERK!!!! JByrd made an awesome point from the viewpoint of Dale Hollow and Laurel.

[GeoFisher]

GEE Pro V LE could you please take me and show me how to catch them since my fish catching skills are so bad. You are a jerk my friend, and absolute JERK!!!! JByrd made an awesome point from the viewpoint of Dale Hollow and Laurel.

Excellent Point??

Doubtful.........Dale and Cumberland are completely DIFFERENT lakes.......How many times has Dale been dropped oh say 60 ft to keep from flooding the down stream communities. I can tell you NONE since I've been fishing it. Cumberland.......well practically every year over the past few. I will tell you this though.....I think there have been some serious SPAWN classes at cumberland lately, and as soon as the lake comes up a little all that brush along the bank is going to make for some FANTASTIC fishing. BUT you guys will of course say it is all due to the striper kills this year and last year.

Dale has some SERIOUS predators besides spots, smallies and largemouth. How about Lakers, Rainbows, Muskies, Walleye,etc, etc Those take a BIG bite out of the alewife and shad population.

And........since the introduction of alewives into Dale, I believe there have not been too many "trophy" smallies caught from there.......trophy meaning over 8lbs.

Like I said in the previous thread..........I hope you guys get really good at alewife fishing, because without the stripers, that is ALL you're going to catch.........

Later,

Geo

[Jbyrd]

Excellent Point??

Doubtful.........Dale and Cumberland are completely DIFFERENT lakes.......How many times has Dale been dropped oh say 60 ft to keep from flooding the down stream communities. I can tell you NONE since I've been fishing it. Cumberland.......well practically every year over the past few. I will tell you this though.....I think there have been some serious SPAWN classes at cumberland lately, and as soon as the lake comes up a little all that brush along the bank is going to make for some FANTASTIC fishing. BUT you guys will of course say it is all due to the striper kills this year and last year.

Dale has some SERIOUS predators besides spots, smallies and largemouth. How about Lakers, Rainbows, Muskies, Walleye,etc, etc Those take a BIG bite out of the alewife and shad population.

And........since the introduction of alewives into Dale, I believe there have not been too many "trophy" smallies caught from there.......trophy meaning over 8lbs.

Like I said in the previous thread..........I hope you guys get really good at alewife fishing, because without the stripers, that is ALL you're going to catch.........

Later,

Geo

Well hope this is not sounding like I am disputing every comment, But I KNOW FOR A FACT alewives where in Dale YEARS before cumberland. In fact I KNOW who caught some of the first ones and put in lake cumberland in the early 70's.At the time the Game wardens (as they where called then ) Tried to get someone to admit to it HA HA . But their exact words where that alewives are steriods for bass. The only bad thing they said was that they are more prone to a die off which in-turn may harm the bass population They wanted the magnum spots and the big smallies that where in dale to be in cumberland. Also cumberland has the same predators that you mentioned OH YEA that is right the STRIPERS ate all the trout in the early 80's. Yes for some of you new to cumberland fishermen they used to stock trout in cumberland EVERY spring. Man you could murder the stripers in the heads of the creeks when they releasd the trout. Ever heard of a strawberry little mac. When striper fishing was at its best that was the lure. IMATION RAINBOW TROUT !!!!. And cumberland dropping 60 feet? where and when did that happen .In 1984 we got 10 inches of rain the lake rose to 751 (highest in history and was going over the flood gates at the top of the **** . Go to this link and click on statistics I think it has done that one other time in it's 57 year history. If they pulled it down to 690 (whichswas common during the winter before the repairs) That is a 61 feet drop So yea I guess it did happen ONCE !!! and that was over 8-10 months Most years cumberland would stay around 720 and during the summer start to drop until Dec or Jan down to the 690 mark.The lowest it has EVER been in the history of the **** is 675.10 Jan 27 1981
This year alone dale was 637.31 on Jan 11 and it went up to 658.39 on April 18 , 21 feet difference .So as you can see they both fluctuate.,
Ok for a thought let them try to put stripers in DALE and watch the reaction. The smallmouth fishermen would burn Frankfort......
As for the over 8 lbs Believe there have been several pics on this site alone just in the last 2 years . That doesn't count the ones we don't hear about.
Think elnuts could give a good ideal on how many he has heard about coming from down there.
And since i made the comment about fishing cumberland for 35 years i have also fished dale just as long but not as often. Was lucky enough to have an Old Man as we call him who had fished Dale many a time with the late great Billy westmorland introduce me to Dale hollow. When I was still a single man he had retired from the army and we fished every sat and sunday for 2 years from feb until late november on the hollow. Remember this was before the float-n-fly So that is how can compare the two lakes . I have fished them thru thick and thin.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Cumberland#Statistics go to this link and click on stats to see the highs and lows

[HURRICANEBOB]

Well hope this is not sounding like I am disputing every comment, But I KNOW FOR A FACT alewives where in Dale YEARS before cumberland. In fact I KNOW who caught some of the first ones and put in lake cumberland in the early 70's.At the time the Game wardens (as they where called then ) Tried to get someone to admit to it HA HA . But their exact words where that alewives are steriods for bass. The only bad thing they said was that they are more prone to a die off which in-turn may harm the bass population They wanted the magnum spots and the big smallies that where in dale to be in cumberland. Also cumberland has the same predators that you mentioned OH YEA that is right the STRIPERS ate all the trout in the early 80's. Yes for some of you new to cumberland fishermen they used to stock trout in cumberland EVERY spring. Man you could murder the stripers in the heads of the creeks when they releasd the trout. Ever heard of a strawberry little mac. When striper fishing was at its best that was the lure. IMATION RAINBOW TROUT !!!!. And cumberland dropping 60 feet? where and when did that happen .In 1984 we got 10 inches of rain the lake rose to 751 (highest in history and was going over the flood gates at the top of the **** . Go to this link and click on statistics I think it has done that one other time in it's 57 year history. If they pulled it down to 690 (whichswas common during the winter before the repairs) That is a 61 feet drop So yea I guess it did happen ONCE !!! and that was over 8-10 months Most years cumberland would stay around 720 and during the summer start to drop until Dec or Jan down to the 690 mark.The lowest it has EVER been in the history of the **** is 675.10 Jan 27 1981
This year alone dale was 637.31 on Jan 11 and it went up to 658.39 on April 18 , 21 feet difference .So as you can see they both fluctuate.,
Ok for a thought let them try to put stripers in DALE and watch the reaction. The smallmouth fishermen would burn Frankfort......
As for the over 8 lbs Believe there have been several pics on this site alone just in the last 2 years . That doesn't count the ones we don't hear about.
Think elnuts could give a good ideal on how many he has heard about coming from down there.
And since i made the comment about fishing cumberland for 35 years i have also fished dale just as long but not as often. Was lucky enough to have an Old Man as we call him who had fished Dale many a time with the late great Billy westmorland introduce me to Dale hollow. When I was still a single man he had retired from the army and we fished every sat and sunday for 2 years from feb until late november on the hollow. Remember this was before the float-n-fly So that is how can compare the two lakes . I have fished them thru thick and thin.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Cumberland#Statistics go to this link and click on stats to see the highs and lows

Good post, informative, great view of hstory.