4 reasons why lead fishing tackle ban should be opposed

[Dave Stewart]

I see a lot of percentages referencing that ingestion of lead weights has caused "x" percentage of the deaths of the loons, but what is the percentage of the loon population as a whole that is dying from lead ingestion...???

Just as a note, we have plenty of loons here on Ky/Barkley and seem to be getting mroe and more every year.

[GeoFisher]

I see a lot of percentages referencing that ingestion of lead weights has caused "x" percentage of the deaths of the loons, but what is the percentage of the loon population as a whole that is dying from lead ingestion...???

Just as a note, we have plenty of loons here on Ky/Barkley and seem to be getting mroe and more every year.

Yea........I hear ya there............I've been going to Minnesota/Canada every year and I see a TON of them up there....seems to me, I see more there also.

AND I've seen a lot more on Dale in the Winter too...........hm.

Later,

Geo

[RoadToad]

I see a lot of percentages referencing that ingestion of lead weights has caused "x" percentage of the deaths of the loons, but what is the percentage of the loon population as a whole that is dying from lead ingestion...???

Yep, excellent question, one I doubt we'll ever be able to answer precisely. But regardless, IF it's true that in some places, a significant percentage of loons (or swans, or whatever) die while they are of breeding age, because of lead poisoning from ingesting lead sinkers, then to me, there's a problem. But to me it should be the biologists in that area, the ones that work for that particular state's department of fish and wildlife, who should have the most to say about whether or not lead sinkers are allowed in this or that lake. To me, it's no different then a size limit, or creel limit, or whether people should be allowed to use barbed hooks or not; it should be up to the local authorities. It might make sense to ban lead sinkers in one lake, but not in another 10 miles away, let alone one on the other side of the country.

Just as a note, we have plenty of loons here on Ky/Barkley and seem to be getting mroe and more every year.

That's good news. But it's important to remember that most, if not all of the loons you see in Kentucky are in the process of migrating. So the fact that you're seeing more and more of them here every year doesn't mean that their population isn't getting smaller and smaller every year at this or that particular place up north where they do most of their breeding. And again, I would say that if the biologists who study those places where the population of certain species is decreasing due to lead poisoning decide they want to ban using lead sinkers IN THOSE PLACES, I have no problem with that.

[Dave Stewart]

Yep, excellent question, one I doubt we'll ever be able to answer precisely. But regardless, IF it's true that in some places, a significant percentage of loons (or swans, or whatever) die while they are of breeding age, because of lead poisoning from ingesting lead sinkers, then to me, there's a problem. But to me it should be the biologists in that area, the ones that work for that particular state's department of fish and wildlife, who should have the most to say about whether or not lead sinkers are allowed in this or that lake. To me, it's no different then a size limit, or creel limit, or whether people should be allowed to use barbed hooks or not; it should be up to the local authorities. It might make sense to ban lead sinkers in one lake, but not in another 10 miles away, let alone one on the other side of the country.


That's good news. But it's important to remember that most, if not all of the loons you see in Kentucky are in the process of migrating. So the fact that you're seeing more and more of them here every year doesn't mean that their population isn't getting smaller and smaller every year at this or that particular place up north where they do most of their breeding. And again, I would say that if the biologists who study those places where the population of certain species is decreasing due to lead poisoning decide they want to ban using lead sinkers IN THOSE PLACES, I have no problem with that.

Someone needs to tell these loons here they should be migrating because we have them year round here now...just like the comorants.

[Mastersbassclub]

I guess I'm a "triple threat" to society and the environment.

1. I fish with lead weights and sinkers.

2. I live in an old house that has asbestos siding.

3. My house contains lead paint.

[creeker]

Here's where this issue has gotten off base. First, the title of this thread is wrong to the article which changes the point of the thread a complete 180 degrees. If you actually go to the article, you'll see that it is titled, "Ban on Lead Fishing Tackle Should Be Opposed", see the difference?

The second area where this whole issue has gotten off base is that the "lead" they're talking about in paint is not the same lead as in fishing tackle. Because people hear lead in paint and lead in Chinese toys, they automatically assume its the same lead they know about with fishing tackle.

I'm going to try to give everyone a quick and simple chemistry lesson. Here goes...elements such as iron, copper, lead, etc are very stable in metallic form. If you combine them with other elements, you affect the degree of stability. Metallic lead, what sinkers are made of, is very, very stable. If you swallow a sinker, it'll pass through you with no ill effects. It is very resistant to acids.

If you turn it into a compound, such as tetra-ethyl lead (lead from leaded gasoline), as it burns, the tetra-ethyl part is stripped away and you're left with lead molecules that are then free to combine with your body tissues and cause the issues everyone is talking about.

To try to explain it another way, its kind of like mercury. In its metallic form--like what you find in a thermometer, its has the potential to cause issues with tissue. But mix it with the right stuff, and you can safely fill cavities in your teeth (ever had a filling come loose and swallow it?). Lead is the opposite of that.

[ukbass]

Here's where this issue has gotten off base. First, the title of this thread is wrong to the article which changes the point of the thread a complete 180 degrees. If you actually go to the article, you'll see that it is titled, "Ban on Lead Fishing Tackle Should Be Opposed", see the difference?

The second area where this whole issue has gotten off base is that the "lead" they're talking about in paint is not the same lead as in fishing tackle. Because people hear lead in paint and lead in Chinese toys, they automatically assume its the same lead they know about with fishing tackle.

I'm going to try to give everyone a quick and simple chemistry lesson. Here goes...elements such as iron, copper, lead, etc are very stable in metallic form. If you combine them with other elements, you affect the degree of stability. Metallic lead, what sinkers are made of, is very, very stable. If you swallow a sinker, it'll pass through you with no ill effects. It is very resistant to acids.

If you turn it into a compound, such as tetra-ethyl lead (lead from leaded gasoline), as it burns, the tetra-ethyl part is stripped away and you're left with lead molecules that are then free to combine with your body tissues and cause the issues everyone is talking about.

To try to explain it another way, its kind of like mercury. In its metallic form--like what you find in a thermometer, its has the potential to cause issues with tissue. But mix it with the right stuff, and you can safely fill cavities in your teeth (ever had a filling come loose and swallow it?). Lead is the opposite of that.

This is a great post. Thanks for the info. I didn't know that and imagine most others didn't either. Which is why we need to oppose this ban. Please

[RoadToad]

I'm going to try to give everyone a quick and simple chemistry lesson. Here goes...elements such as iron, copper, lead, etc are very stable in metallic form. If you combine them with other elements, you affect the degree of stability. Metallic lead, what sinkers are made of, is very, very stable. If you swallow a sinker, it'll pass through you with no ill effects. It is very resistant to acids.

Lead dissolves fairly quickly in acid solutions, including the hydrochloric acid in a person's stomach.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/815399-overview
Now, if you were to swallow a sinker whole, it may well pass through your system before enough is absorbed to cause a problem, but I wouldn't make a habit of it. But again, this is beside the point. What we're talking about is birds, not humans, and in many cases, when a bird swallows a lead weight, it remains in their stomach, and there can be enough of it absorbed to cause death by lead poisoning.

[RoadToad]

One thing I wonder about is how these birds end up swallowing sinkers? Are they inside some of the fish that they eat? Are they mistaking them for food? Seems to me most lost sinkers would end up at the bottom of the lake, and birds wouldn't get to them, but I must be missing something.

[kc]

I wondered the same thing. I read somewhere some time back that the issue was mostly shotgun shot where it gets scattered in the shallow marshes where the birds forage and they ingest it that way. I too am having a hard time imagining how the birds come in contact with lead fishing sinkers. Not that I know all uses for sinkers but when I use them it is usually around fairly deep water where if I lost one I don't see how a bird would come in contact with it. And if you stretch the thought to include jig heads well with a hook attached I can't imagine a bird ingesting although the hook with rust away over time. That is why I don't believe that there is credible data to back the claim that fishing lead is truly a threat to water birds...

kc

[RoadToad]

Biologists have been documenting this phenomenon for decades. I don't doubt that it happens, I'm just curious as to why, or how.

[creeker]

I also find it interesting that if you go to the EPA website for lead, here's what they list:

Most Common Sources of Lead Poisoning:

Deteriorating lead-based paint
Lead contaminated dust
Lead contaminated residential soil


Nowhere do they make mention of shotgun shot, shooting ranges, sinkers, etc.