U.S. faces "Americanization" of terror threat

[Chubminnow]

I don't reckon there's anyway to tell the difference between a peace loving Muslim and one of those terroristic Muslims is there?

Just kidding (sort of)...

[Chubminnow]

Between George's and Andrew's posts here, this has been an enlightening thread, at least for me it has anyway. I'm going to have to re-read some of the posts and read the latest attachment(s) included in a couple of posts, maybe that'll help me better understand what the real deal is. But for now I guess I'm feeling kind of wore out on the subject...mush brain.

[Grumpy]

Apb, you wrote in a post above: "you also seem to be lumping all Muslims together as extremists. That is not the case. Not too long ago the issues with pediphile Catholic priets was all over the press. Based on that, should we consider all Catholic priests pediphiles and not allow Catholic churchs in the US? Certainly not. The vast majority of Catholics are decent people and are just as disgusted with pediphile priests as non-Catholics."

You anology is flawed because the Catholic church does not teach it priests to be pediphiles but Mohamed did tell ALL MUSLIMS to "Convert them or kill them!!" And no matter what apologists like you and Roadtoad say THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PEACEFUL MUSLIM!! "Peaceful Muslim" is a controdiction in terms because by the fact that they are admonished to kill all Infidles that they can't convert as a basic precept of Islam. Saying that they don't have to believe or practice that is like saying a Christian or Jew can still be a good Christian or Jew even if they only abide by the first four and the last three of the Ten Commandmentsm or that they can pick and choose which of the Commandments they want to abide by.

I agree that all Muslims are not necessarily terrorsists but I firmly believe that all Muslims are bent on the destruction of America and all other free countries. Shria and democracy cannot coexist.

Grumpy

[apb]

You anology is flawed because the Catholic church does not teach it priests to be pediphiles but Mohamed did tell ALL MUSLIMS to "Convert them or kill them!!" And no matter what apologists like you and Roadtoad say THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PEACEFUL MUSLIM!! "Peaceful Muslim" is a controdiction in terms because by the fact that they are admonished to kill all Infidles that they can't convert as a basic precept of Islam. Saying that they don't have to believe or practice that is like saying a Christian or Jew can still be a good Christian or Jew even if they only abide by the first four and the last three of the Ten Commandmentsm or that they can pick and choose which of the Commandments they want to abide by.

No offense Grumpy, but I can also find plenty of references in the bible that reflect a similar image of all who are not Christian. Been a while, but either the book of Judges or Joshua (may be both), there was a lot of smiting going on. God commanded the Isrealits to "kill every man, woman, and child" of a number of the neighboring groups as they believed in a different god. How many Christians today will work on a Sunday? I seem to remember the book of Numbers talking about a man who they found gathering firewood in the desert on a Sunday and was stoned to death for not resting on the Sabbath. If an angry mob was banging on your door was demanding that you give up a man under your roof so that they could "know" him, would you offer up your daughters in his place like in the story of Lot? Another similar story as that in the Old Testiment too. Just a few examples. People seem to take their religion a la carte and forget about the parts of their holy texts that they do not like. Basing your options of all who accept one religion based on the acts of a few is folly.

.... Shria and democracy cannot coexist....

I agree. I want no part of Shria Law for the US. Note that the majority of Muslims do not want it either. Again, its the extremists who force such things on their own people.

Andrew

[Col Forbin]

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A PEACEFUL MUSLIM!!

Grumpy

How many muslims do you personally know. My guess is none. How much of the Koran have you read other than internet or other searches highlighting the violent passages that seem to defend your view - my guess is little to none. Most prejudice on any group of people is due to a lack of knowledge of that group of people. We all are aware that there are radical extremist - so I am in no way saying they are all peace loving people - but the same can be said for any group of people.

[Grumpy]

You wrong, I have read the koran (a translated version in its entirety), many years ago, and from that reading and contact with Muslims I came to believe that Islam was/is a violent oppressive religion which I wanted no part of. BTW, I have also read the Bible and I decided I didn't want any part of Christianity either.

Grumpy

[Col Forbin]

If you have read it all, you have read more than me. I have read large parts of it - enough to know that the bulk of the writings are anything but violent in nature. However, I still can't seem to lump an entire group of people as being violent based on the actions of a few. The bad part about it, those few that are casting a negative shadow on the whole, are so extreme in beliefs and actions that it has tarnished the reputation of such a large group of people. I refuse to let this taint my views. All of the muslim people I have ever known have been extremely nice and generous people - far from violent, and I truly feel they are a more accurate representation of the muslim people throughout this world, and especially in this country.

[RoadToad]

From "Discussion Board Rules":
5. No complaints about how the boards are run or the site will be allowed. We will gladly accept any e-mail complaints you would like to send to us, but no complaints on the board any more. No answers on the board any more.

Now 2 moderators are arguing, on the boards (not in email), about to moderate the boards. I don't see how you guys can expect the rest of us to follow the rules when you yourselves don't.

Back to the topic:

You wrong, I have read the koran (a translated version in its entirety), many years ago, and from that reading and contact with Muslims I came to believe that Islam was/is a violent oppressive religion which I wanted no part of. BTW, I have also read the Bible and I decided I didn't want any part of Christianity either.

Grumpy

Now, from Geo's thread entitled "Re: This just in....from a PEACEFUL religion......."

Roadtoad, thank you, I have not had that good a belly laugh in years. A professed agnostic wanting to debate theology—what a hoot!!

Anyhow, I don’t feel I am qualified to debate theology. I have read the Bible but I still think that War and Peace was much more entertaining. I have never had any interest in reading the Koran. Long before the current surge of Islam, I read enough about it and its history to determine that Islam was/is a very violent and oppressive religion which I wanted no part of.

As to your point that: “If you read the entire passages, it becomes apparent that they don't refer to ALL non-Muslims, only those that "attack them in their land.", I think that a short study of the history of Islam, and its desire, aim and attempts for the subjugation of all non-Muslims would show that your limited version and understanding of “convert them or kill them” is the one that is erroneous.

That being said, I have no disagreement with you. Anything that is written, or spoken, including and especially the contents of the Bible and the Koran, is open to interpretation. Why else can a Republican and a Democrat listen to a speech by Obama (or any other person) and come away with two very divergent opinions of what was said and/or ment by the exact same words.

Grumpy

Only one of those posts could be true. I don't for a minute believe that you would have read the Koran "in its entirety" if you "had no interest" in reading it. I personally don't believe that you've ever read a translation of it, or you wouldn't keep posting the same fallacies about Islam over and over.

[apb]

From "Discussion Board Rules":
5. No complaints about how the boards are run or the site will be allowed. We will gladly accept any e-mail complaints you would like to send to us, but no complaints on the board any more. No answers on the board any more.

Now 2 moderators are arguing, on the boards (not in email), about to moderate the boards. I don't see how you guys can expect the rest of us to follow the rules when you yourselves don't.....

You are right, I should not have questioned Grumpy's moderation on the board. I later deleted my comment to him and we had an email conversation afterwards. Count that towards me being an imperfect human. We are all allowed a little slack from time to time. For example, me cutting you a little slack with your comment here. Oooo the irony

Andrew

[RoadToad]

You are right, I should not have questioned Grumpy's moderation on the board. I later deleted my comment to him and we had an email conversation afterwards. Count that towards me being an imperfect human. We are all allowed a little slack from time to time. For example, me cutting you a little slack with your comment here. Oooo the irony

Andrew

Thanks for that. I have to admit, I've gotten my fair share of slack. Flack, too . If I believed in astrology, I'd have to wonder if Mercury is in retrograde.

[Grumpy]

Roadtoad, after I made that earlier post I remembered that in search for a religion that I could join, I had read a version of the koran (then called the Quaran) as well as the holy books for many other religions but I didn't see any need to correct the statement because I did not have any interest in Islam. Far be it from me to blame it on getting chronologically enhanced but I don't remember what most of the other holy books were either. That being said I stand by my statements.
Grumpy

[jcb]

Roadtoad, after I made that earlier post I remembered that in search for a religion that I could join, I had read a version of the koran (then called the Quaran) as well as the holy books for many other religions but I didn't see any need to correct the statement because I did not have any interest in Islam. Far be it from me to blame it on getting chronologically enhanced but I don't remember what most of the other holy books were either. That being said I stand by my statements.
Grumpy

Wish I had this remarkable talent in regards to all the boring books they made me read in college! How fortunate for you Grumpy.