Fatal boat wreck on Barkley this morning

[ukbass]

I don't have 2 cents worth to put in on the topic but will try for 1 cent. There is NO way that any governing body or otherwise can EVER limit the number of boats on the water, tournament or otherwise. I have been on Ky and Barkley and seen tournament boaters during launch and weigh in time doing whatever can be done to get them to their first spot the quickest or back to weigh in time before they are penalized. I am not saying tournament fishermen are any better or worse than non-tournament fishermen. I do fish tournaments, not a lot of them, but do fish them. I also know my mentality changes 100% when I am fun fishing versus tournament fishing. Last year when we fished the Billy Westmoreland Tourney on Dale Hollow, Day 1 was sleet and snow and my FishHeadz mask fogged up right after launch so I threw it on the floor and ran 22 miles with nothing on my head and my eyes watering up and freezing, NOT SAFE. Day 2 it was Foggy to say the least and really we never should have been let loose to fish but they announced the fog over the bullhorn and said to be safe so they let us go. We idled out of Horse Creek and it cleared a bit but still not a lot but I knew where I was going and what I had to dodge even without a GPS on my boat so I floored it and on we went. I WAS AN IDIOT and NOT SAFE in doing it but my mentality was different for we were on fish and in my slow boat just wanted to get there in hopes that nobody was sitting on "MY SPOT". Neither of these would have happened on a normal day of fishing for I would have cleaned my fishheadz mask so I could see better on Day 1 and waited until the fog lifted on Day 2 before running. Totally different mindset.

As far as regulations and rules, we will never be able to limit the number of tournament boats or tournaments on lakes like Ky and Barkley but what about limiting the takeoff times. For illustration purposes only, I will use Kentucky Dam Village, Moores, Ken Lake and Buzzard Rock marinas since they are in close proximity of each other and host the majority of the major tourneys on the north side of the 2 Lakes. You can get to Ken Lake from Buzzard Rock in 30 minutes or so in todays bass boat with a 250HP motor on it (just a guess because I don't know exactly). Lets say there are a major tourney out of each of the 4 marinas on the same day. Why not launch one at 6:30, one at 7:00, one at 7:30 and one at 8:00. I know one arguement is the tourney launching at 8 will say there are 3 tourneys ahead of them but the playing ground is the same because everyone in that tourney will have the same issue. If they are 2 Day tourneys then on the second day switch the times in reverse. Basically what I am saying is turning "1100" tournament boaters loose at the same time with money on the line is not good. Turning 1100 PROFESSIONAL ANGLERS loose versus some professional and some like me who are amateurs that are fishing a tournament is totally different. By staggering the times between the big events at least the initial and final runs to and from the weigh in sight are staggered, which will decrease the number of boats doing the same thing at the same time. Just my 1 cent worth

This may sound like I am arguing with but I am not. Those are all good points, I don't see it happening though just because of what you said, you just can't govern that kind of thing. And again, how did we come up with 1100, if that is reality, ok, but where did it come from? There were only two large tourneys registered last week, all the big ones register. Those two combined only put 410 on the lake. I didn't go back and look, but there were prob. more tourn. anglers on the lake earlier in the year, and more than once I would say.

[Dave Stewart]

This may sound like I am arguing with but I am not. Those are all good points, I don't see it happening though just because of what you said, you just can't govern that kind of thing. And again, how did we come up with 1100, if that is reality, ok, but where did it come from? There were only two large tourneys registered last week, all the big ones register. Those two combined only put 410 on the lake. I didn't go back and look, but there were prob. more tourn. anglers on the lake earlier in the year, and more than once I would say.

There were two big ones that did not register on the KDFW board...one out of Jonathan Creek and one out to Paris.

[ukbass]

There were two big ones that did not register on the KDFW board...one out of Jonathan Creek and one out to Paris.

Who fished out of Jonathan Creek, just asking. And I wouldn't even count Paris, those tourneys should have little if any impact on the North end.

[elnutsmalljaws]

Not a tournament director but maybe one of them can respond, but whats to say that it is required by law to register all tournaments that have or plan on having more than "X" number of boats on the KFW board. Tournaments this big are scheduled and planned well in advance enough for this to happen. I don't know if there were 1100 boats in tournaments or not, even if there were only 400 in 2 seperate tourneys going out of Kentucky Dam Village and the Moores or Moores and Ken Lake, these are close enough that 400 boats will be speeding to their first spots at the same time. If nothing else big tours like Renegade, USA Bassin, FLW, Elite Series and others could very easily get together when their schedules are put out many months in advance to schedule different launch times for safety as well. Again just my 1 cent.

[ukbass]

Not a tournament director but maybe one of them can respond, but whats to say that it is required by law to register all tournaments that have or plan on having more than "X" number of boats on the KFW board. Tournaments this big are scheduled and planned well in advance enough for this to happen. I don't know if there were 1100 boats in tournaments or not, even if there were only 400 in 2 seperate tourneys going out of Kentucky Dam Village and the Moores or Moores and Ken Lake, these are close enough that 400 boats will be speeding to their first spots at the same time. If nothing else big tours like Renegade, USA Bassin, FLW, Elite Series and others could very easily get together when their schedules are put out many months in advance to schedule different launch times for safety as well. Again just my 1 cent.

I would have no problem with that either. I schedule all of CAST tourneys on kdwfr even though we are really small. Don't get me wrong, I hate all the traffice like anyone else, but I sure am glad that no one can tell us we can't have a tourn. at a certain time. I wish everyone had to register, we try to avoid a big tourn. when possible, but you can't if you don't know about it.
You prob. will never be able to avoid two tourn. close together all of the time. And you have to remember, even when they do register, that is an estimation. They might call it a 150 boat tourn., but only 80 show's up. It could go the other way also I know, but in my opinion the number of participants have been low the last few years, and I think everyone knows why.

[elnutsmalljaws]

I would have no problem with that either. I schedule all of CAST tourneys on kdwfr even though we are really small. Don't get me wrong, I hate all the traffice like anyone else, but I sure am glad that no one can tell us we can't have a tourn. at a certain time. I wish everyone had to register, we try to avoid a big tourn. when possible, but you can't if you don't know about it.
You prob. will never be able to avoid two tourn. close together all of the time. And you have to remember, even when they do register, that is an estimation. They might call it a 150 boat tourn., but only 80 show's up. It could go the other way also I know, but in my opinion the number of participants have been low the last few years, and I think everyone knows why.

Even if you register 150 and only 80 show up, that would still be over the 50 boat minimum that I suggested must be registered. As far as Paris goes, I remember KVD fishing just outside of Kentucky Dam Marina in the 2009 Elite that was launched from Paris. Visa versa, I remember in the spring of 2008 when the water was about 4 feet over summer pool and I think it was the Fishers of Men that took out of The Moores and the guy that won it fished down near Paris Landing. Plus any Big Tourneys out of Ken Lake could have boat running south as those from Paris running north. Even staggering these by a half hour would get the major running out of the way early. I just think the bigger tournaments with a large number of boats in them could be scheduled with staggered start times. You take guys fishing for money, guys that are trying to get to their best spot to start the day, guys that come to lakes from out of state or lakes that they are not familiar with and then throw in all these boats getting launched at the same time is a recipe for trouble. Throw in todays economic times where it is more important for guys to finish in the money to cover expenses and it makes it worse. nothing against tournament fishermen for they also bring in money to the economy around the lakes but there has to be a way to make it safer for all.

[ukbass]

Even if you register 150 and only 80 show up, that would still be over the 50 boat minimum that I suggested must be registered. As far as Paris goes, I remember KVD fishing just outside of Kentucky Dam Marina in the 2009 Elite that was launched from Paris. Visa versa, I remember in the spring of 2008 when the water was about 4 feet over summer pool and I think it was the Fishers of Men that took out of The Moores and the guy that won it fished down near Paris Landing. Plus any Big Tourneys out of Ken Lake could have boat running south as those from Paris running north. Even staggering these by a half hour would get the major running out of the way early. I just think the bigger tournaments with a large number of boats in them could be scheduled with staggered start times. You take guys fishing for money, guys that are trying to get to their best spot to start the day, guys that come to lakes from out of state or lakes that they are not familiar with and then throw in all these boats getting launched at the same time is a recipe for trouble. Throw in todays economic times where it is more important for guys to finish in the money to cover expenses and it makes it worse. nothing against tournament fishermen for they also bring in money to the economy around the lakes but there has to be a way to make it safer for all.

Don't take what I said out of context though. Tourney going out of Paris, most are staying South. Heck, a lot of tourneys on North end go South these days. So when a lg.tourn reg. out of Paris, it won't effect the North very much, yes a few will come that way, but not many. And when talking about boat traffic, I am referring to the North end because that is where I fish.

[Dave Stewart]

The tourney was Bass World Sports out of Jonathan Creek. As far as not considering Paris tournament, that is up to you...fact is there were other big tournaments so you can drop this now about: what other tournaments.

[tomo]

Lets remember that Kentucky & Barkley Lakes are very different lakes in October than they are in May and June. 800 Tx boats in June have considerably more safe water to run in than in october when the lake is close to winter pool. I live on and fish north Ky Lake. In the last 3 weeks I have watched two bassboats run aground off of North pt. of Jonathan Ck. because they were not familar with this lake at these elevations. If you would cross the main lake going from Jonathan Ck. to Rhodes Bay today about half way across in the middle of the lake you would see ""Old Blackie" sticking out of the water about 6". It's an old cyprus stump that has claimed many a lower unit over the years and it is a mile from any land. Take the boat lane across from Big Bear to LBL side and you might see a Blue Heron just standing there like I have many times this time of the year. This area is also a mile from any land. My point is folks when you put 800 Tx boats on these lakes in October its a different and much more dangerous lake and you are increasing the odds of boating accidents. The fatal accident was not caused by these conditions but they still exisit and are a danger particulary to people trying to get from one place to another in the shortess possible time.

[ukbass]

I don't understand why a director from any organization would come in late and sched. tourney when there are already several on the board. But we had 9 boats in our CAST tourn. today, small I know, but we did sign up two new members and about half of the guys that were there said they new someone who would join next year. We had a great devotion and prayer time before we took off. And I sure am glad nobody told us that we couldn't fish today. I still think that would be wrong. Just about everyone on here has agreed that this accident didn't happen because of too many boats. But had it not happened, we would't even be having this conversation. Which is why I chose to get in on this in the first place.

[jamwerx]

I don't understand why a director from any organization would come in late and sched. tourney when there are already several on the board. But we had 9 boats in our CAST tourn. today, small I know, but we did sign up two new members and about half of the guys that were there said they new someone who would join next year. We had a great devotion and prayer time before we took off. And I sure am glad nobody told us that we couldn't fish today. I still think that would be wrong. Just about everyone on here has agreed that this accident didn't happen because of too many boats. But had it not happened, we would't even be having this conversation. Which is why I chose to get in on this in the first place.

You completely refuse to see the point and quite frankly you're the kind of boater that scares the sh*t outta me because you refuse to see the problems or think them thru and you just won't get off this "how many boats" or "speed" thing and that's really not the issue which is a combination of everything involved in a tourney. And comments like you can't count Paris because they aren't where you are... wtf???? seriously??? Boats on a lake means just that not "boats on a lake = boats where you are".

Is it just speed thats the issue? no
Is it to many boats? no

What it is that you combine those 2 with the mindset and actions that a tourney brings on and you start up a storm. A tourney boater out there IS NOT DRIVING OR ACTING like a normal boater. Maybe you can handle it just fine but do you understand your actions can/will affect the other boaters and their reactions? When you guys are blasting out and whipping around blind corners and coming up on other boats who don't know what you are doing or your intentions they can react incorrectly and cause accidents as well. I could careless if you hit a stump or a wall so long as it's just you and not an innocent person(s).

Just because you are in a tournament doesn't give you more rights to the lake then anyone else, actually it should make you have more responsibility. Even most tourney fishers will admit it's an issue and a lot of people quit fishing tourneys because of it so whether or not you want to admit it, it obviously is an issue.

I liken it to sticking a group of alpha male teen-age boys in a ***** house.. first come first served, which really it is just that.

Or how about this example.

The lake is an electronics store and most everyday you can walk thru it and weave in and out of people just fine but it's a relatively controlled situation. Of course there is the occasional idiot who cuts people off and whips around isles and causes other shoppers to react. You could fill that store and it's still kind of mellow.

Now take that store on Black Friday with massive sales and what happens? (liken this to a tournament).
You've got people running, cutting off others to get to the good stuff first, people getting mad, adrenaline is bursting, tempers are flaring and the pace is considerably sped up and you have this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnyRm6htkPY.
A few crazy shoppers is tolerable but the more crazy shoppers you have the greater the chance of disaster. Sure you could have disaster with only 2 shoppers or 1 shopper running thru isles as fast as they can and discovering a neck high wire (that fell from ceiling and got stuck across isle) after they'd gone thru it and now head isn't on body. Anyone with half a brain should be able to understand that.

The more people there the greater chance you have for things to go wrong.. it's simple common sense... nothing more, nothing less

Did speed cause the crash? well maybe
Did the number of boats cause the crash? well maybe

What if the the other driver had gotten rattled before the crash somewhere between the launching pad and there from speeding boats or getting caught between multiple speeding boats or a near accident and his mind was racing trying to do too much and was too panicked to notice the oncoming boat until last sec and then instinctively turned left instead of right because it came down to a reaction instead of thinking.

This is where classes could come in handy. Remember when you got your DL(well those under 40) and you had to have so many hours in the simulator. A boat simulator would be good so you'd have at least a few "safe" runs to install that quick reaction.

Remember driving a boat is like driving in england and everything is backwards from a car here so of course people are going to react wrong.. hell I do all the time.

I'm not a tourney hater but it pisses me off when you all apparently have the right to blast by me and screw up my fishing so that you can shave 3 seconds on a run. If I saw you fishing a ledge (hopefully the fishing is good but fish are spooky) and I decided to run full blast 10 feet from you and push you into the rocks and/or put the fish off... you're gunna completely sh*t yourself. So now you have reg boaters getting pissed and possibly trying to "return the favor" and again the more this happens from more tourney boats the more reg boats start acting like tourney boaters. So now you have 1100 crazy boats running and 300 pissed off non-tourney boats out for revenge.. I can go on and on.. it's the way it is.

This isn't to all tourney fishers just the idiots.

[Grumpy]

This horse has been beaten to death. I am locking the thread.

Grumpy