The Economy

[pontooner]

I don't claim to have the answers on how to fix it, but sometimes I think the "easy" thing to do is to bitch about the politicians, the government, and how it's all their fault. The government has an impact, don't get me wrong, but I think it's time that the American public mans up and owns some of the blame too. We brought many of the economic downfalls on ourselves with unrealistic ideas on the "wealth" that we have and what we can afford. It all snowballed.

Just because I'm a middle class Joe with a decent job and a little cash in the bank, it doesn't mean that I should be able to go finance a huge house, a couple of expensive cars, a boat, a motorcycle, a flat screen TV in every room with cable and all the channels, clothe my family from the high-end stores at the mall, and go out several times a week to all the hopping eating joints at $50 a ticket....all on my credit card. If you think there aren't people out there doing just that every day, you're fooling yourself. That's not the way the world is supposed to work, but American culture has deemed it "normal" and carried on.

I'm Splitshot, and I approve this message. LOL

Whoa, whoa there Jimmy Carter.


I do agree

[HURRICANEBOB]

Ya ever notice when we talk about fixing the economy and lowering govt spending, the first things people think about is:
a. Taxes cuts (which decreases govt income, and so increases the likelihood of govt deficit spending)
b. Cut the military ( I agree to a degree, lets get out of Germany, England, France, Spain, Italy, and Japan all togther. Lets concentrate on this contingent, and only those forward bases we need to station aircraft and service ships, no ground troops)
c. Medicade, Medicare, and Social Security. These are "promises" made by the govt and ought to be 100% hands off, to me they are part of the basic human resource services the govt has a charter to provide. And as long as Americans paid in, I feel the govt out be obligated to fund as required.

So what do we cut? Stupid programs like funding research into some 3 headed butterfly mating habits as an example. Dramatically reduce federal funding for state building projects, except those that involve transportation (roads, bridges) or health care delivery systems. And do streamline every aspect og govt operations, believe me when I say there is much room to knock out stupid duplication of effort and unnecessary paperwork. Me, I'd start with cutting the paperwork of the IRS by 50%, doing more on line, or with flat tax rates and fewer deductions, and cut the paperwork staff as soon as the paperwork decreases.

And I do support cutting some of the exotic frills out of govt spending. Looking at the 4 services recruiting first. No more Nascar sponsorships, not more "Team Army" nitro funny cars. Ground the Golden Knights, and the Blue Angels. If you want to do a demo, do it with real tropps and real combat aricraft who can get the training value from the jump or the flights. Spend less on recruiting with frills, and put more emphasis on getting soldiers out to talk with candidates first hand.

Good link for 2010 govt budget, lays it out pretty clear. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Un...federal_budget

$663.7 billion (+12.7%) ? Department of Defense (including Overseas Contingency Operations)
$677.95 billion (+4.9%) ? Social Security
$453 billion (+6.6%) ? Medicare
$290 billion (+12.0%) ? Medicaid

[Tyme2fish]

No more Nancy Pelosi! Can I git a Amen!!!

Amen,brother, Amen.

And very shortly we will not have to hear the two most disgusting words in the English language. Madam Speaker.
Makes me want to vomit everytime I hear it.

[Tyme2fish]

You are required by law to have auto insurance aren't you.

Not if I don't own a vehicle.

You can even operate a vehicle without insurance (Indiana) if you post proof or have a bond for a certain amount that equals the minimum liability required by law. Basically self-insurance.

[walkeraviator]

Guess I will chime in. I agree with SplitShot. The primary problem with the economy is that people in todays society want more than they can afford. I am to blame too. And I agree with hurricanebob as well. A good way to get teh budget balanced is to stop blowing money on stupid useless studies and wastes of defense money. Do you really think in todays information glut that the blue angels or plastering yoru name on a racecar can actually increase your recruitment???

Now, the comparison between health insurance and car insurance is ridiculous.

1. the federal government does NOT require car insurance. State governments do. This is in line with the 10th ammendment. The federal government does not have the power to do ANYTHING that isnt granted them in writing in the Constitution. All other powers are granted to the states.

2. The only inuranse usually required by states is liability insurance. They require me to carry enough insurance to protect others. They give me the choice on how to protect myself. I have the LIBERTY to choose better insurance that covers me and my possessions. This should be the case with Health Insurance.


Now with all that said, those of us that are calling for less government are not saying that there isnt a place for some regulation. I than god that the FAA, FDA, EPA, etc all exist that make regulations that make life safer. And yes lack of financial regulation may have been partly to blame for subprime lending, but to over regulate would be a huge mistake. There is a happy medium we must find.

In other words, there is room for regulation, but there is never room for a complete government takeover like that which has happened in the health care bill.

[DJD]

Man I agree 100% noone made folks buy or live above their means but there was alot of influence by Politicians. I feel the policies of Jimmy Carter on getting low income/poverty folks loans for houses and Clinton enforcing the idea with more regulations helped cause the meltdown. Once the groundwork was layed noone stopped the madness. Fannie and Freddie and so on......

The terrible part is like you said...a generation (or slice of america) who had little to no understanding of how to budget their lives jumped on board and applied for loans because banks were basically mandated to loan to these subprime apps or lose. I don't know how many people I heard of living beyond their means and then filing for bankruptcy. Had two working for us. What I heard was the gubment will work it out or it's not my fault.I guess I feel alot of americans, banks and politicians were not held responsible enough.

To me bottom line is they had a carrot dangled in front of them (by policies of law makers) of the american dream with little understanding of how to pay for it.

I blame Obama the most. (joke)

[Chubminnow]

You are required by law to have auto insurance aren't you.

No....we are not required by law to have auto insurance. Auto insurance is only required if one wishes to drive a motor vehicle. There are others ways, means and methods of transportation. I'm not being a smart ass (even though it may sound like it, lol)...but I don't see how government can force anyone to buy anything...there's always a way to get around things...healthcare insurance for instance, let's say a fella is in his early 20's, full of piss and vinegar and as healthy and as strong as a horse but he can't afford health insurance...who's going to "make" him buy something he can't afford when he's already working two shifts and eating bologna? Maybe it means he'll be "made" to buy health insurance but in order to be able to do so he has to give up his vehicle because he can't afford insurance on his vehicle AND his health. And maybe it goes a bit further...maybe his vehicle is a "must have" for the line of work he's in (construction).

Just throwing out a different spin on it.

[Chubminnow]

I don't claim to have the answers on how to fix it, but sometimes I think the "easy" thing to do is to bitch about the politicians, the government, and how it's all their fault. The government has an impact, don't get me wrong, but I think it's time that the American public mans up and owns some of the blame too. We brought many of the economic downfalls on ourselves with unrealistic ideas on the "wealth" that we have and what we can afford. It all snowballed.

Just because I'm a middle class Joe with a decent job and a little cash in the bank, it doesn't mean that I should be able to go finance a huge house, a couple of expensive cars, a boat, a motorcycle, a flat screen TV in every room with cable and all the channels, clothe my family from the high-end stores at the mall, and go out several times a week to all the hopping eating joints at $50 a ticket....all on my credit card. If you think there aren't people out there doing just that every day, you're fooling yourself. That's not the way the world is supposed to work, but American culture has deemed it "normal" and carried on.

I agree wuth everything you wrote, especially both of the paragraphs above.

[MrSplitshot]

Don, I agree with you...there were definitely some carrots thrown out in front of folks by the government that helped start the snowball rolling. There is blame on the system in that regard, just like there is blame on the American citizen.

It seems to me like the "American Dream" with recent generations turned into this notion that there is something wrong with being an everyday Average Joe, in a house relative to the size of your family and the size of your paycheck....driving a car that's paid for because you kept it to loan term and maintained it/drove it thereafter until it was tired....buying the things you can afford to pay for now, or with smart financing. Everybody needs the bank's help...it's just a matter of how far you take it. My Grandfather was the textbook definition of Average Joe, and he died a pretty happy fellow...never really had much...but never needed a handout from the government to cash a check that he wrote. My fear is that those principles have died, or are dying, with each generation that passes.

I'm just as guilty as the next guy in some of those regards, but I haven't taken it to a level beyond what my income can handle...and I haven't taken it to the point that I can't save, contribute to a 401K for retirement, and have my own "bailout" plan in case of emergency.

I find it so ironic that the majority of the public goes on about the insanely stupid spending decisions that the government makes (and they do some of the dumbest stuff I've ever seen), when some of them are just as bad in their own personal lives.

I guess the point of my little rant (lol) is that I agree wholeheartedly that politicians are part of the problem and need to be taken to task...but many American citizens are also a part of the problem and need to be taken to task as well. The root problem, in the so eloquent words of Mr. Ron White, is that you can't fix stupid.

[Devils Horse]

You didn't explain how extending the Bush tax cuts would help the economy since they have failed to for years and then you complain about the deficit but want the tax cuts extended.



Deregulation is a major reason the economy is in the toilet right now and again the Bush tax cuts have failed to help the economy and taken billions in revenue away from reducing the deficit.




You are required by law to have auto insurance aren't you.




Funny because every poll I saw had the economy as the number 1 issue by a large margin, not that I approve of all you listed but if the economy was doing good I think you know how things would have turned out.

Are you pulling my chain? Others already responded to the silly auto insurance comparison.

With regard to the Bush tax cuts, I'm going to hit you with a concept that may be hard to grasp, but stay with me. The less money the federal government takes the more money people have to spend, thus spurring economic activity. As I said it's just a start.

The trigger for the economic flop was liberal pols like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd who forced fannie mae and freddie mac to give billions in home loans to underqualified buyers.

The economy is also cyclic, there are ups and downs. Government over regulation will not prevent economic downturns, it will help create them, and make them worse. It will also make companies move to less hostile countries taking jobs with them.

Splitshot made some excellent points as usual. If the mindset on the government's role changes, more will live within their means. They'll have to. Most of us already do many of the things Split brought up, and we shouldn't be forced by the government to pay for those who don't. My boat is 10 years old, my truck 11, my wife's van is 10, etc...

[MrSplitshot]

Most of us already do many of the things Split brought up, and we shouldn't be forced by the government to pay for those who don't. My boat is 10 years old, my truck 11, my wife's van is 10, etc...

There are still a good amount of people that make wise choices, and I agree - They end up footing the bill so that the government can subsidize those who don't. Excellent point.

[DJD]

I'm with ya Man!