Again..North Korea!

[apb]

Diplomacy is the same thing that the Bush administration was doing with N Korea so its not like Obama is doing anything different on that front. Not sure why folks think that the US has to play world police every time something happens elsewhere and get our nose into things. For those of you suggesting covert ops or other means of silencing the midget, exactly what would you do? I mean, you take out the midget and you still have a lot of others who would follow in his footsteps. You have to keep in mind that this wacko has been in power for a long time and his father before him. Lots of brainwashing of the population during that time. Not to mention that if you start playing around in China's backyard without their blessing you could be looking at something a whole lot more involved and costly in terms of American lives. Given that China practically owns half of the US right now, they sort of have us by the balls. The best bargaining chip that we have is suggesting that with all the saber rattling by N Korea, may be its time that Japan should have a standing army, you know, for "self defense". The last thing China wants in the region is a well-armed Japan. I'm sure they still have nightmares about the last time Japan had an army. Also bear in mind that N Korea often does the saber rattling deal right before they try bargaining for something. I also think you'll find that there have been a number of incidences in the area for years that have gone unreported in the press.

Andrew

[mhall]

Parker who said ANYTHING about fighting a war, I said send a special op's team over there and make him and his son go horizontal PERMANTENTLY! That is hardly a war and the American public needs to know nothing about it. Sounds to easy right, lol, we have been doing that kinda of stuff for years. Before this Nation got all feel good and tree huggy we whacked idiots all the time.

[apb]

Parker who said ANYTHING about fighting a war, I said send a special op's team over there and make him and his son go horizontal PERMANTENTLY! That is hardly a war and the American public needs to know nothing about it. Sounds to easy right, lol, we have been doing that kinda of stuff for years. Before this Nation got all feel good and tree huggy we whacked idiots all the time.

IF that were to happen, you can be pretty sure that the N Koreans would immediately launch a whole lot of missles at S Korea. That would be the start of the war. S Korea has to be in on, and approve, any measure that we take against N Korea as they'll be the first to get hit. There are a lot of missles able to reach Soeul, so I'm sure it would get messy real quick. So yeah, not quite so easy.

Andrew

[mhall]

IF that were to happen, you can be pretty sure that the N Koreans would immediately launch a whole lot of missles at S Korea. That would be the start of the war. S Korea has to be in on, and approve, any measure that we take against N Korea as they'll be the first to get hit. There are a lot of missles able to reach Soeul, so I'm sure it would get messy real quick. So yeah, not quite so easy.

Andrew

Conjecture on your part, you have NO way of knowing this for sure.

[apb]

Conjecture on your part, you have NO way of knowing this for sure.

You are correct, no one knows the outcome for sure. Honestly, do you really believe that N Korea would do nothing after its leader was offed? I think it’s a pretty safe bet that S Korea would be the first to feel their wrath. I think its doubtful that N Korea would want to take on the US cause they know they would lose. S Korea is another story. Unaided, the north might have a chance, and a reunited Korea is something the north has wanted for a while. The midget’s father tried, but was not successful in doing it.

Andrew

[GeoFisher]

You are correct, no one knows the outcome for sure. Honestly, do you really believe that N Korea would do nothing after its leader was offed? I think it’s a pretty safe bet that S Korea would be the first to feel their wrath. I think its doubtful that N Korea would want to take on the US cause they know they would lose. S Korea is another story. Unaided, the north might have a chance, and a reunited Korea is something the north has wanted for a while. The midget’s father tried, but was not successful in doing it.

Andrew

Better check your facts........South Korea would do JUST FINE without the US or other Western Allies. The south has 700k Active Troops, and 3 million or so reserves.

They also have 600-700 modern aircraft, including f4, f5, f15, f16 and their own f50.

They also have 11k or 12k artillery pieces, including 155mm self propelled howitzers.....similar to our M109 Paladins.

They also have a formidable navy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korea_Military

I don't know if the South can actually fight, but they have used their forces around the world as peace keepers, and even had a number in support roles in IRAQ.

I think if the North really wanted a battle, they'd get their BUTT KICKED.......but you know what, they don't.

NOT saying the North would not do damage......the WOULD, but I think the south could and would do SERIOUS damage to the North.

Later,

Geo

[apb]

Better check your facts........South Korea would do JUST FINE without the US or other Western Allies. The south has 700k Active Troops, and 3 million or so reserves....

North Korea South Korea
Personnel: 1,106,000 687,000
Army: 950,000 560,000
Navy: 46,000 68,000
Airforce: 110,000 64,000
Tanks: 3,500 2,750
Subs: 63 13
Fighters: 388 467
Artillery: 17,900 10,774

I don't disagree, the South might do fine against the North if everyone else stayed out of it. I don't think others will stay out. If we get involved, China might take issue with US troops right on their doorstep. Demodan is right, things would get ugly real quick.

I agree with you, that the North really doesn't want a war. More along their lines of saber rattling to extort stuff that they don't have from the west.

Andrew

[RoadToad]

I strongly disagree about this being just more saber rattling. They've never shelled a city like this before. This is an escalation, and has to be dealt with as such. And as for us staying out of it, Demodan's right, they are our allies by the treaty we signed in 1953.

China is the big question in all this. Obviously, they fought alongside North Korea in the war, and they've always quietly supported them ever since, but I think what we need to do is convince them (and I think they already realize this) that their buddies really screwed up this time, and the South is going to respond, and will probably have help from the US and maybe others, and the best thing they can do is stay the hell out of it. If they don't, God knows where it may lead.

[HURRICANEBOB]

Good points Toad. Stand corrected and agree with our folks there, we have to be prepared to do whatever it takes to protect them. And I do agree with demodan. If this thing goes prime time, it ain't going to be like Afghanistan, it will be conventional war more like the scale the first time we went in to IRAQ for Storm. Total shock and awe.

I'm thinking the Chinese may steer somewhat clear, especially if as I think they realize the US has no intent to occupy, nor threaten their borders.

Scary, if China gets real offended, given how much US buys in manufactured goods from them, Walmart prices might skyrocket! China owns what part of California State Municipal Debt bonds? Clowning here, but what happens if they foreclose on California?

[demodan]

So...while the North Korea prepare for "all out war"...Pres. Obama is playing basketball. He gets hit with a elbow...and needs 12 stiches. I just don't get it....Well, I guess he knows more about the situation than me...So I guess all is ok...I guess Pres. Obama has the attitude that the North is just one dog with a big bark...with no bite. We will see...... I sure hope so.

[DJD]

They oughta send billary and pelosi over there to NK and make them stay for a month. They will do anything we say as long as we take those two back.

[MrSplitshot]

During the Cold War, communist expansion was a real threat. We protected South Korea from the Communist and Chinese backed North. Same deal with Japan after WWII. We rebuilt both of those country's economies...to the point where certain industries overtook our own at home. (ie: Automotive industry)

South Korea is a pretty well-off nation now, as is Japan. I realize that stopping the spread of Communism has always been a "big deal" for the U.S. and it will likely always be. But, is Communist expansion really a big threat anymore? What exactly do WE stand to lose if the North and the South Koreans go at it and kill a bunch of each other? Why are we still so protective of the South that we have 30K troops stationed there that would end up in the middle of this fight? If the North attacked the South, and the fur started to fly, is it worth risking a war with China over protecting South Korea? China is, in reality, the only country on the planet that we ought to have some serious reservations about getting in a cat fight with. I like their food, but I'm not good with chopsticks and I don't really want to speak their language anytime soon.

Why don't we quit trying to be the World's police force and let the peninsula fend for itself? Unless, of course, somebody can give me a valid argument for why the security and prosperity of the U.S.A. is in jeopardy if South Korea falls. (Personally, I think they could hold their own, with the army and equipment they have.) I realize that in this day and age the world is getting smaller....it's a global economy....blah, blah, blah. However, I'm beginning to have a shift in mindset toward that of the old isolationist's policy. Take the 30K troops in Korea, transfer them to Afghanistan so that we can finish off the terrorist/Taliban/whomever it is we are fighting over there...then bring everybody home. If the South fell to the North, I'm sure there would be a need to open up some production on American soil that could help out that 10% unemployment rate a little.

I know it's a lot more complicated than that...and I'm not smart enough to figure it all out...but I'd love to understand the ramifications of letting them fend for themselves and whomever wins, wins.