Again..North Korea!

[apb]

Better check your facts........South Korea would do JUST FINE without the US or other Western Allies. The south has 700k Active Troops, and 3 million or so reserves....

North Korea South Korea
Personnel: 1,106,000 687,000
Army: 950,000 560,000
Navy: 46,000 68,000
Airforce: 110,000 64,000
Tanks: 3,500 2,750
Subs: 63 13
Fighters: 388 467
Artillery: 17,900 10,774

I don't disagree, the South might do fine against the North if everyone else stayed out of it. I don't think others will stay out. If we get involved, China might take issue with US troops right on their doorstep. Demodan is right, things would get ugly real quick.

I agree with you, that the North really doesn't want a war. More along their lines of saber rattling to extort stuff that they don't have from the west.

Andrew

[RoadToad]

I strongly disagree about this being just more saber rattling. They've never shelled a city like this before. This is an escalation, and has to be dealt with as such. And as for us staying out of it, Demodan's right, they are our allies by the treaty we signed in 1953.

China is the big question in all this. Obviously, they fought alongside North Korea in the war, and they've always quietly supported them ever since, but I think what we need to do is convince them (and I think they already realize this) that their buddies really screwed up this time, and the South is going to respond, and will probably have help from the US and maybe others, and the best thing they can do is stay the hell out of it. If they don't, God knows where it may lead.

[HURRICANEBOB]

Good points Toad. Stand corrected and agree with our folks there, we have to be prepared to do whatever it takes to protect them. And I do agree with demodan. If this thing goes prime time, it ain't going to be like Afghanistan, it will be conventional war more like the scale the first time we went in to IRAQ for Storm. Total shock and awe.

I'm thinking the Chinese may steer somewhat clear, especially if as I think they realize the US has no intent to occupy, nor threaten their borders.

Scary, if China gets real offended, given how much US buys in manufactured goods from them, Walmart prices might skyrocket! China owns what part of California State Municipal Debt bonds? Clowning here, but what happens if they foreclose on California?

[demodan]

So...while the North Korea prepare for "all out war"...Pres. Obama is playing basketball. He gets hit with a elbow...and needs 12 stiches. I just don't get it....Well, I guess he knows more about the situation than me...So I guess all is ok...I guess Pres. Obama has the attitude that the North is just one dog with a big bark...with no bite. We will see...... I sure hope so.

[DJD]

They oughta send billary and pelosi over there to NK and make them stay for a month. They will do anything we say as long as we take those two back.

[MrSplitshot]

During the Cold War, communist expansion was a real threat. We protected South Korea from the Communist and Chinese backed North. Same deal with Japan after WWII. We rebuilt both of those country's economies...to the point where certain industries overtook our own at home. (ie: Automotive industry)

South Korea is a pretty well-off nation now, as is Japan. I realize that stopping the spread of Communism has always been a "big deal" for the U.S. and it will likely always be. But, is Communist expansion really a big threat anymore? What exactly do WE stand to lose if the North and the South Koreans go at it and kill a bunch of each other? Why are we still so protective of the South that we have 30K troops stationed there that would end up in the middle of this fight? If the North attacked the South, and the fur started to fly, is it worth risking a war with China over protecting South Korea? China is, in reality, the only country on the planet that we ought to have some serious reservations about getting in a cat fight with. I like their food, but I'm not good with chopsticks and I don't really want to speak their language anytime soon.

Why don't we quit trying to be the World's police force and let the peninsula fend for itself? Unless, of course, somebody can give me a valid argument for why the security and prosperity of the U.S.A. is in jeopardy if South Korea falls. (Personally, I think they could hold their own, with the army and equipment they have.) I realize that in this day and age the world is getting smaller....it's a global economy....blah, blah, blah. However, I'm beginning to have a shift in mindset toward that of the old isolationist's policy. Take the 30K troops in Korea, transfer them to Afghanistan so that we can finish off the terrorist/Taliban/whomever it is we are fighting over there...then bring everybody home. If the South fell to the North, I'm sure there would be a need to open up some production on American soil that could help out that 10% unemployment rate a little.

I know it's a lot more complicated than that...and I'm not smart enough to figure it all out...but I'd love to understand the ramifications of letting them fend for themselves and whomever wins, wins.

[RoadToad]

I know it's a lot more complicated than that...and I'm not smart enough to figure it all out...but I'd love to understand the ramifications of letting them fend for themselves and whomever wins, wins.

Well first of all we'd be abandoning an ally we've sworn to protect. Just when the chips are down, we'd be telling them, "Sorry folks, you're on your own." Which of course would immediately destroy any credibility we have with any country anywhere. China, who has been quiet with its support of North Korea, and noncommittal when there has been conflict, would probably see no reason not to openly ramp up their support of the North, and maybe even offer military support. North Korea would continue to enrich uranium, and probably have the bomb in a few years, maybe sooner (which may happen anyway). But of course this is all conjecture, as was said in previous posts. Nobody can say for sure. Besides, if you read the statements that come from the North Korean government, some of them sound like the place is run by a bunch of freakin' lunatics. There's just no predicting what they might do.

[demodan]

First off..they do have nukes..the North has tested them underground...Studies from the US / Japan... says it had the force of maybe 2/3 times that of "big boy" used in WWII on Japan..And they have out right said they have them ready to use...And like us...if we thought we'd be taken over by another country by force...we'd use them!! Well...so would they. Experts (our intellegence community) say they have maybe 8 to 12...last year...next year...15/25...the next year..35/50 ready to use; and maybe a dozen..for small battle field use..and torpedos war heads! Im other words...we would be fighting a foe that will be a "stand and fight" war, for a change..And also...they do have the means to deliver these nukes...about as far as Peal Harbor, accurately...at this time. Also....I've been talking to some "so called experts" on the matter; a few that have been stationed in the south......they said the South wouldn't stand a snowball chance in hell.. at holding back the North's army...as a matter of fact..the play book on this battle...does look quite bleek. They say the North if they wanted to;...could take over about half of South Korea...before any kind of "offensive" messures could come to muster...with much of it being American forces might and will power ....could push them back, maybe. The lose of life...and damage would be such a toll...that it is about unthinkable. So any thoughts that the South could hold back the largest ground force to ever march on a battle field...is a pipe dream.

[300ZX]

I was in S Korea in summer of 95(June/July) when the North marched 800,000 ground troops to the border(North said it was a training exercise). We went on full alert and were going to war! The intell breifing I sat in on told us that was estimated to be only 1/3 of their active ground troops! We were told that they would prob push to seol before they could be stopped and that our casualties would be catastrophic. I think at the time the Marine Corps was around 175,000 and thats everyone not just infintry. We do have more advanced weapons but the bottom line is this will get real ugly real quick. God help if the Chinese join in with the North. It will be a war like the U.S. has never seen. North Korea has never stopped building up for this since we left there the first time.
Semper Fi
Chris