Don't ask Don't Tell

[parker]

Guess you got my point...you're correct, we weren't discussing the price of beans, just like we weren't discussing who originally pushed the current Don't Ask deal through. And, Don't Ask, Don't Tell ain't all that great either, not sure why you think it is...but it sure as heck beats what the idiot libs are trying to do today. And to think...the ONLY reason they're doing it is to try to persuade more votes. Pathetic is the term that comes to mind.

In another thread you stated you never was in a foxhole with a gay...all I can tell you about that is "you'll never really know for sure". Gay's don't come with book covers, you can't always know.

You are correct. Why cant they serve in the military openly? I aint afraid of them, is anyone else?

[mhall]

You are correct. Why cant they serve in the military openly? I aint afraid of them, is anyone else?

Good point but alot of people don't see it that way. I work with a fella who's son just went through basics at Paris Island. He told his Dad a couple of fellas a bit light in the loafers were going through at the same time. They didn't advertise but most knew something was up. He said the Gunnies tried to kill them during the Crucibal, and this was just from suspecting, can you imagine if they had to have the tag on their shirt.

My point is just leave it alone, it doesn't have to be discussed, talked about, accepted, ect ect. If a person wants people to know he'll tell, if not it's his business, just leave it ALONE, why do you libs have to make everybody see everything through their rose colored glasses.

[HURRICANEBOB]

I think the policy ought to change to:

"Don't ask, because who cares"
Do we ask if a white soldier is married to a black girl?
Do we ask if a black soldier is married to a Chinese girl?
Do we care if the soldier is a catholic, protestant or jewish?
Do we care if he likes the Yankees or the Phillies?
Do you have to be married, or prevented from serving if you are not married?
Do you have to be single to serve?


It's a free and open society, and our constitution says folks can live and serve here from all walks of life and from all persuasions. We allow in our society for folks to follow any religious belief that does not violate law. Some religions frown on homosexuality, but relgion is not law. Nothing in the constitution forbids freedom of sexual preference. No law forbids this activity.

So, "Don't ask, because we don't care".

What we do care about is a citizens willingness to freely serve his country and to willingly go in harms way to protect it. Any human being who takes on that level of responsibility, dedication, and selfless service deserves my admiration, no matter what he or she elects as a sexual preference.

[DJD]

Your right HB....those are some great points. Served with a few men who were gay and never treated them any different. Have an employee now who is gay and again noone cares.

Is it me or is it a group that wants to be treated equal and not singled out who is asking to be special and singled out?

Oh wait that's the way we do it here...once you have established a few victories for your cause you can band together and demand more. Before long there will be special holidays for the great leaders of that group. Political leaders will beat their door down for their endorsement and promise them the world. They will run for office on their sexual preferrence and how they could change the world if we could only accept them for who they are.....Prolly have special Miss Gay America events, gay rights month, special scholarships, quotas, gay history month and so on...

[Chubminnow]

Your right HB....those are some great points. Served with a few men who were gay and never treated them any different. Have an employee now who is gay and again noone cares.

Is it me or is it a group that wants to be treated equal and not singled out who is asking to be special and singled out? Oh wait that's the way we do it here...once you have established a few victories for your cause you can band together and demand more.

Man you hit the nail on the head! I've known a few gays in my life...women and men both, they're ok by me...they've never pushed their lifestyle on anyone, everyone got along, business as usual....but the part you mentioned about the libs demand for more...heck man the proof is out there....like Parker pointed out, Clinton is the one who pushed for Don't Ask, Don't Tell, now look where we're at....the stinkin' libs are once again wanting to take it to the next level.

[RoadToad]

Is it me or is it a group that wants to be treated equal and not singled out who is asking to be special and singled out?

In what way are they asking to be special and singled out? They're already singled out in that if they acknowledge their sexuality, a basic part of who they are, they will be discharged from the military. It never ceases to amaze how any time gay people seek to treated equally under the law, it is always misconstrued as them asking for "special rights."

[HURRICANEBOB]

In what way are they asking to be special and singled out? They're already singled out in that if they acknowledge their sexuality, a basic part of who they are, they will be discharged from the military. It never ceases to amaze how any time gay people seek to treated equally under the law, it is always misconstrued as them asking for "special rights."

I think that's a good point. Seems like it works that way. Examples:
1. We say we want to avoid sexual discrimination, so we keep tons of statistics to see if females get better jobs than men.
2. We say we want to be "color and Race blind", and show no preferences, yet every government survey that comes out asks what race we are.
3. We say we want to treat people of all ages the same, yet all surveys ask how old we are.

To my way of thinking, if you want people to be treat without regrard to any type of category (race, sex, creed, age, habits, etc), then stop tracking them that way.

And to be fair, sometimes you have to track numbers to know if your goal is being achieved. Did more balcks get jobs? Do more womeno get executive positions. etc, etc.

Vicious circle, and I guess it all boils down to what we do with the numbers. I feel crazy saying this, but it seems sometimes we have to treat people exceptionally until they can be accpted as normal.

[DJD]

First off, I'm not wanting to come across as hating any one group of people because I don't. They were trying to get special legislation for same sex marriages in many states. Medical benefits for their partners and I believe it was U of L? Maybe UK? I don't remember for sure. I'm sure there are other states or universities that gave them what they wanted.

How does that work for men and women who live together and decide not to get married? Do they get to claim life partners and enjoy the same benefits? Tax benefits?

Call me old fashioned but same sex couples are not a normal match in life. It's not PC to say that but I don't care I'm not running for office. Couples or matches in life are usually done for one reason and that in the end is reproducing. (I understand love and attraction and all the things relationships encompass.)

It's a gift to have a child with someone.....an absolute awesome gift. It's so special and I see it as a miracle to see your child and watch the traits you passed on or the other sex passed on. How can that not be right? If your a parent you have to see that. Right?

The fact that it takes men and women to reproduce (not same sex) tells me more than all the justifying, equal rights and talk that this topic gets. Also, it's hard not to mention Adam and Eve as the way it's supposed to work.

[RoadToad]

How does that work for men and women who live together and decide not to get married? Do they get to claim life partners and enjoy the same benefits? Tax benefits?

Corporate benefits depend on the company. Where I work, you can put your "domestic partner" on your benefits, although I'm not sure if/how that would work for a same sex couple in KY, and sorry but I'm not calling HR to find out . I know Kentucky doesn't recognize same-sex marriages, even if they're legal in other states. As far as federal taxes, domestic partners are considered as single, but California and some other states let domestic partners file joint state taxes. I don't think KY does, but i haven't checked.

Call me old fashioned but same sex couples are not a normal match in life. It's not PC to say that but I don't care I'm not running for office. Couples or matches in life are usually done for one reason and that in the end is reproducing. (I understand love and attraction and all the things relationships encompass.)

It's a gift to have a child with someone.....an absolute awesome gift. It's so special and I see it as a miracle to see your child and watch the traits you passed on or the other sex passed on. How can that not be right? If your a parent you have to see that. Right?

The fact that it takes men and women to reproduce (not same sex) tells me more than all the justifying, equal rights and talk that this topic gets. Also, it's hard not to mention Adam and Eve as the way it's supposed to work.

Nobody's arguing that; that's what you believe, and that's cool, but not everybody sees it that way. For some, the "pursuit of happiness" takes them down a different path. So why not let other people live their lives the way THEY see fit, as long as they're not hurting anybody? I hear you guys on the right complaining about how we liberals try to force our ideas on everybody else, but aren't you doing the same thing here? And this happens all the time on this subject. Proposition 8 is a prime example. Special legislation passed for no other purpose than to specifically deny a certain right to a certain group of people.

[DJD]

Corporate benefits depend on the company. Where I work, you can put your "domestic partner" on your benefits, although I'm not sure if/how that would work for a same sex couple in KY, and sorry but I'm not calling HR to find out . I know Kentucky doesn't recognize same-sex marriages, even if they're legal in other states. As far as federal taxes, domestic partners are considered as single, but California and some other states let domestic partners file joint state taxes. I don't think KY does, but i haven't checked.


Nobody's arguing that; that's what you believe, and that's cool, but not everybody sees it that way. For some, the "pursuit of happiness" takes them down a different path. So why not let other people live their lives the way THEY see fit, as long as they're not hurting anybody? I hear you guys on the right complaining about how we liberals try to force our ideas on everybody else, but aren't you doing the same thing here? And this happens all the time on this subject. Proposition 8 is a prime example. Special legislation passed for no other purpose than to specifically deny a certain right to a certain group of people.

LOL why not call HR? Just tell them your calling for a friend.....I guess this comes down to what I believe and nothing more. I just think lines have to be drawn and this is one of them for me.

Prop 8 was a reaction to a decision made by Supreme Court Judges who went against the will of the people. I don't know the political views of the judges at all.

Seems to me that a small group of people were trying to make the larger group accept their way of life not the other way around. Once it became publically known what was going on the people reacted and voted to stop the opponents agenda.

Gay marriage is wrong in my mind, plain and simple. I think it opens up so many other issues that are too numerous to list.

As far as serving in the Military....I welcome them and have never done anything against them but I don't care to know who is or who isn't. What you do when you leave work is your business and don't make it mine.

Where does it stop? Isn't it ok for society to have general rules that we all live by? Rules and laws that we have lived by for how long? Is nothing sacred?

After all "change" for the sake of "change" isn't always good.

[MsgMills]

gottta weigh in on this...IF the law is passed and stands..I believe too much special treatment will be given to say a Sergenat's hidden partner for an assignment...You actually think the sgt. is going to put his partner in harms way when all he has to do is tell pvt. Smucky your on point and his partner is assigned to the rear of the squad for more protection....

Srry but you can't have same sex relationship's in any branch of the military.....Be just as bad as having women on the front line of every combat operation in existance....

So if they pass this law...then women will be filing law suits for the Military to allow them to fight along side men on the front lines as well.......

Thanks Slick Willy for screwing up a perfectly great system to begin with.....

Just my opinion after serving over 20 years in the Military and having served 8 years of that time as a Grunt on the front lines....

[pontooner]

his partner is assigned to the rear of the squad for more protection....

Sorry to break up a serious thread but the subject being discussed and this line made me LOL.