Judge RULES.......ObamaCare is unconstitutional.

[GeoFisher]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...verage-debate/

This is one of MANY fights to come.

I don't know WHAT we need to be doing, but evidently this is NOT it.

Later,

Geo

[DJD]

Noone has the answer but the folks who are supposed to take care of this have lost their minds.
We just went through our annual healthcare insurance meeting and as expected our rates have gone up. Our coverage has gone down just a little. The company is absorbing some of the cost for us which is great. We are less than 17 employees.
I always figured that the free ride given to millions of illegals, lifetime baby making welfare abuse and no tort reform has been the cause of this. I also believe that the gubment wants this chunk of our economy under their thumb so they have more money to play with and can raise revenue for the gubment much easier. It's just another vehicle for them to drive our economy into the ground.
It's just bad business having folks who don't know how to run a business having control. Let's just stop and look at our country right now and see if it's smart to give them more control.

[RoadToad]

Yeah it's probably going to make it to the Supreme Court before it's over. I don't see how they can win the argument that the government isn't exceeding it's authority requiring people to buy health insurance. Seems to me the only argument that has a snowball's chance is for them to say that just because that part's unconstitutional doesn't mean the whole thing has to be thrown out, but that seems unlikely too.

[Devils Horse]

What Don said.

As many of us have said all along, the government can't legally make you buy health insurance. The SC will affirm this unless they're willing to admit they're total Democrat party lackeys.

The government's own lawyers have argued that without the mandatory insurance purchase provision the whole act is unworkable. Long way to go, but it looks pretty bad for Obamacare at this point.

Obamacare was ill conceived, and pushed through by power drunk, arrogant politicians who didn't even freakin read it first.

Way to go guys! A couple of thousand pages of constitutionally flawed legislation that has wasted huge amounts of money and time. Can't wait for your next historical contribution.

Whatever they do about this issue, they danged well better at least READ it before moving forward. It's a lot to ask, but hey maybe they could even try and think it through.

[kydonky]

What would you propose?

There seems to be three types of people in this country.

One group pays out the asssets for health insurace and has maintained coverage all their lives.

The other group spends this money on new cars, toys, travel or whatever and hope they don't need major health care.

The third cannot afford health care, new cars toys, or even basic housing and food.

Group 1 gets sick and has assistance with medical costs, although they pay a substantial amount of $ for out of pocket exp. Hospitals and medical comunity charge them inflated amounts to "offset" losses of groups 2 and 3.

Group 2 gets sick and goes to the Dr., Hospital and then declares bankruptcy and defaults on the medical bills.

Group 3 gets sick and goes to the Dr. Hospital and gets treated at basically no cost.

So medical costs are inflated in a large part due to treating people and not getting paid and by Medicaid providers milking the medicaid system (medicaid fraud is ^ concern).

So we need to treat people when they are sick. We need to balance health care costs, and we all need to share the costs.

So we have a health care "tax" ( taxes do not appear to be unconstitutional). However, if you purchase insurance you get a health care tax credit equal to the amount of your insurance to offset or eliminate the tax. Don't buy health insurance, pay your fair share in tax. Can't afford either (better be able to prove it), you are exempt from the tax. Illeagal allien, patchem up and send them packing.

I have been paying over $500.00 a month for health insurance for over 28 years, have had health insurance for over 35 years, Paying over $800.00 month now. I know people that have never carried health insurance yet they get a new car/truck every other year. I have seen these same people have health emergencies and they end up getting treated and have the bills retiered either in bankrupcy or they get the old medical card and get taken care of. Even after this they drop health insurance first thing in favor of the new car.

So doing nothing is not going to solve this mess.

What is your idea???? Send Mitch or Paul a note and tell them how to fix it.

[stratosjoe]

Amen Donky

[walkeraviator]

So medical costs are inflated in a large part due to treating people and not getting paid and by Medicaid providers milking the medicaid system (medicaid fraud is ^ concern).

The reason healthcare costs have gone sky high is because Doctors charges have gone up. Why have they gone up you ask? Malpractice Insurance. A family doctor can pay out as much as $70k a year on MP Insurance. In a Hospital setting , the Hospital who charges you has to pay MP insurance on multiple doctors, whose coverage can cost a lot more than that if they are high risk surgeons, or OB/GYN specialty. Just like any business trying to make a profit, that cost gets passed on to you.

Why is malpractice insurance so high you ask? Liars, i mean lawyers. The society we live in likes to sue. And to top it off you got these vampires encouraging you to sue, because they have nothing to lose.

This is what the Republicans have been screaming for years. We need tort reform... that should be the #1 focus of anyone who is serious about lowering the cost of healthcare. Why dont they focus on this problem? Because most politicians and their buddies are the same blood sucking lawyers.

[Devils Horse]

What would you propose?

There seems to be three types of people in this country.

One group pays out the asssets for health insurace and has maintained coverage all their lives.

The other group spends this money on new cars, toys, travel or whatever and hope they don't need major health care.

The third cannot afford health care, new cars toys, or even basic housing and food.

Group 1 gets sick and has assistance with medical costs, although they pay a substantial amount of $ for out of pocket exp. Hospitals and medical comunity charge them inflated amounts to "offset" losses of groups 2 and 3.

Group 2 gets sick and goes to the Dr., Hospital and then declares bankruptcy and defaults on the medical bills.

Group 3 gets sick and goes to the Dr. Hospital and gets treated at basically no cost.

So medical costs are inflated in a large part due to treating people and not getting paid and by Medicaid providers milking the medicaid system (medicaid fraud is ^ concern).

So we need to treat people when they are sick. We need to balance health care costs, and we all need to share the costs.

So we have a health care "tax" ( taxes do not appear to be unconstitutional). However, if you purchase insurance you get a health care tax credit equal to the amount of your insurance to offset or eliminate the tax. Don't buy health insurance, pay your fair share in tax. Can't afford either (better be able to prove it), you are exempt from the tax. Illeagal allien, patchem up and send them packing.

I have been paying over $500.00 a month for health insurance for over 28 years, have had health insurance for over 35 years, Paying over $800.00 month now. I know people that have never carried health insurance yet they get a new car/truck every other year. I have seen these same people have health emergencies and they end up getting treated and have the bills retiered either in bankrupcy or they get the old medical card and get taken care of. Even after this they drop health insurance first thing in favor of the new car.

So doing nothing is not going to solve this mess.

What is your idea???? Send Mitch or Paul a note and tell them how to fix it.

Never claimed to have all the answers, but I'm pretty sure rushing through a bill requiring people to buy health insurance when you don't have the authority to do so ain't it. Unless of course you're one of the 12,000 new government IRS agents being hired to enforce it. BTW, I too have always paid for health insurance.

No system is going to 100% "solve this mess" as you put it. IMO the lion's share of Americans had the best system possible till the current administration broke it so they could say they provided coverage for everyone. The system we had was far from perfect, but doing nothing would have been way better for us than federal Obamacare.

Government run healthcare for the masses is already proven to marginalize care for the masses. Look at England and other countries who have it. Anyone in those countries who can afford it comes here for serious medical procedures, so maybe our system wasn't such a 'mess' after all.

We are taxed enough already, and I refuse to accept that we need to pay more to solve the so called healthcare mess while a bloated federal government pisses away our tax dollars and ignores the constitution.

My solutions:

Create a simple flat tax system.

Eliminate the IRS, FCCA, DHS, Endowment for the Arts, DOA, and countless other federal agencies.

Cut federal domestic and foreign spending by 25% across the board.

Take part of the hundreds of billions of dollars left over and create a federally subsidized insurance program for those who truly cannot afford healthcare. Make non catastrophic medical debt exempt from bankruptcy for anyone making $50,000 or more a year.

Use the rest of the hundreds of billions to fund medicare/medicaid and difference in income and outgo for social security.

Pay out not one dime of foreign aid to anyone until after said programs are fully funded and national debt is paid off.

Now let's hear your solution.

[DJD]

Maybe there are other problems as well? I seem to remember this but could be wrong...Why are we only limited to certain carriers in certain states? Maybe more competition or less restrictions so others can provide coverage in your state?

I wonder if a fella in Montana or Chicago pays the same as a fella in KY given that all things were equal. Same goes for small Companies. Can they group together and buy insurance based upon hundreds of employees to lower their rates as opposed to a bunch of smaller groups?

Send Mitch or Paul a note? LOL....they would never read it!

[kydonky]

Never claimed to have all the answers, but I'm pretty sure rushing through a bill requiring people to buy health insurance when you don't have the authority to do so ain't it. Unless of course you're one of the 12,000 new government IRS agents being hired to enforce it. BTW, I too have always paid for health insurance.

No system is going to 100% "solve this mess" as you put it. IMO the lion's share of Americans had the best system possible till the current administration broke it so they could say they provided coverage for everyone. The system we had was far from perfect, but doing nothing would have been way better for us than federal Obamacare.

Government run healthcare for the masses is already proven to marginalize care for the masses. Look at England and other countries who have it. Anyone in those countries who can afford it comes here for serious medical procedures, so maybe our system wasn't such a 'mess' after all.

We are taxed enough already, and I refuse to accept that we need to pay more to solve the so called healthcare mess while a bloated federal government pisses away our tax dollars and ignores the constitution.

My solutions:

Create a simple flat tax system.

Eliminate the IRS, FCCA, DHS, Endowment for the Arts, DOA, and countless other federal agencies.

Cut federal domestic and foreign spending by 25% across the board.

Take part of the hundreds of billions of dollars left over and create a federally subsidized insurance program for those who truly cannot afford healthcare. Make non catastrophic medical debt exempt from bankruptcy for anyone making $50,000 or more a year.

Use the rest of the hundreds of billions to fund medicare/medicaid and difference in income and outgo for social security.

Pay out not one dime of foreign aid to anyone until after said programs are fully funded and national debt is paid off.

Now let's hear your solution.

Wow!! exempt medicals bill from bankrupcy. Pretty cold. How bout if you do not have health insurance or pay cash up from you don't get in. This would surely shorten the lines and waiting times.

I don't see how this system has even changed in the last 12 months. I went to my Dr in Dec....no change. He accepted my insurance, gave me a checkup, prescribed medicine for strep infection. So this Adm. broke the system????

If you have insurance now how are you paying more. Say your premium went up this year? well it has gone uop every year for the last 25 years with or without health care reforms.

The whole process of insurance is that groups share risks. Since we do not deny care to those without insurance the cost is spread with those that pay, those thsat do not pay and those insured.

So given a chance health reforms may satiblize costs. With the risks spread more evenly insurance will be more afordable. Listen to the insurance actuaries they will tell you the wider a risk is spread the more stable the plan and the lower the premium.

Malpractice lawsuits are not to blame and limiting malpractice claims will only furter help insurance Industry. Talk about government medeling!!! Taking a resonsibility out of the hands of a jury to a regulation!!. One of the reasons we get good health care is the threat of suit if it is performed neglegently. So lets see hospitaly tags wrong arm for amputation and as a result we fine them $100.00 and ask they be more careful.

Lets just let insurance cancel you the day after you have a catotophic diagnosis. No Govenment medeling. May as well scrap all banking regulations as this is also government medeling too.

Its too early to panic as you seem to be. If problems surface with these reforms they can be amended/changed. Has a lot of good ideas, I for one am hoping some take hold and work as they are intended.

[ckline2006]

Malpractice lawsuits are not to blame and limiting malpractice claims will only furter help insurance Industry. Talk about government medeling!!! Taking a resonsibility out of the hands of a jury to a regulation!!. One of the reasons we get good health care is the threat of suit if it is performed neglegently. So lets see hospitaly tags wrong arm for amputation and as a result we fine them $100.00 and ask they be more careful.

The threat of a malpractice claim does not drive the quality of care in this Nation. Money does and that's the way it should be. Doctors want to be the best and make the most. Medical facilities want good reputations and lots of customers. Medical equipment inventors and manufacturers want to have the greatest product at the greatest price. Our health care industry is driven by capitalism and that is great because competition demands efficiency.

I welcome all claims calling me harsh, cruel, or disconnected for my following statement: Not everyone deserves health insurance. I stand behind taking care of the kids, handicapped, and other groups who are incapable of providing for themselves in a fair market society, but everyone else should fend for themselves.

I spent my time in school learning. When I was old enough, I got a part time job. In college, I worked full time and went to school full time. When I got out of college, I kept on working full-time and started side businesses. Through all of this I have saved and invested aggressively. I have skipped some (not all) vacations, parties, concerts, and other things that my friends have done so I could continue my saving and investing.

- Now to the point-

I haven't behaved this way to be thought a martyr. I have done it because I want better. Better than I had, better than I have now, better than the next guy. I want a bigger house, bigger, truck, bigger boat, and to retire earlier than the next guy. There's not a thing wrong with my desire's either. I made a plan and put it in motion, it's the American dream and I'm living it.

I also want the best health care. If I'm able to pay for the best care and somebody else is not, that sounds a lot like their problem and not mine. The idea that based on whatever sob story somebody has or explanation of momentary irresponsibility suddenly makes it ok to take from my pile and put in theirs is bogus.

[kydonky]

The idea of groups barganing for coverage is a good one. Rather than buying an individual policy if the NRA or Bass Masters would bargain for group health like AARP does we might get a break.

The one aspect of health care reform that concerns me is the provision to not exclude perexisting conditions. Although this will not go into affect for some time it probably needs to be changed before it does.

A person goes without health insurance for decades because he would rather spend his money on other things. He has not paid anything into the pool, then he gets sick. Is it fair that he then buys health insurance, pays a one month premium of $600.00 and has $250,000.00 of medical bills paid?

I think there will have to be a buffer of a waiting period before preexisting conditions are covered, say at least one year. This would stop people from only buying insurance after they get seriously ill.

I sound tough on the insurance industry, but I also realize they have their bottom line as well. Typically an insurance company will consider a loss ratio of $0.95 good. What that means is that for every dollar paid in premiums they pay $0.95 out in claims. That leaves $0.05 for administrative costs, reserves, and dividends.

When you think about if 200 people insure houses worth $100,000.00 each. They pay $525.00 a year for insurance. One of those houses burns down. They pay $100,000.00 loss on the house and they have $5000.00 for cost, reserves etc. If two of those houses burn down they have a loss ratio of $1.90 (paying out $1.90 for every $1.00 taken in). They have to draw on reserves to pay the claims. Usually you do not see one in every 200 houses destroyed each year, but they also cover partial loss like roofs, wind damage etc.

So I still think we need more people in the risk pool to spread the costs and if these people are going to use the health care system they need to pay into the risk pool. Eventually most everyone will use the heath care system, so they need to pay into the pool.