Mitch Daniels takes on LABOR

[Chubminnow]

I'm like Don in that my paycheck comes from the construction industry...been in this business for 31 years. And I say DOWN with the Unions!

Everyone agree's with this statement except of course those who are in a Union. All that strong arming crap is just that...CRAP!! I'm not saying a guy on an assembly line doesn't work hard, he probably does, day in, day out, going to the same stinking line everyday, lights blinking, obnoxious sounds, life on the assembly line probably stinks...but not EVERY guy on the line works hard so why should EVERY guy on the line get the same pay? Why should job security be based on how many years experience a guy has verses how good he is at the work he does. Total number of years experience does not always equate to excellent work produced so why pay Union Platinum Star-A top pay while also paying the Union Bench Warmer the equal amount? Same goes for teachers, some are excellent, some should not be teaching but yet the union treats them equally.

Why should people get a kickback from the Union when they're laid off so while they're laid off they bring home almost as much pay as when they're working? And why should I have to pay extra dollars to support my american brother's job AND help finance his pension by buying his product? It seems to me that I'm already doing my part by buying his american made product, this keeps him employed, but I sure as heck should NOT be charged an extra dollar to help fund his pension. If he wants a nest egg come retirment day then let him save it on his own. No one helps fund my pension...oops...I forgot...I don't have a pension plan because I'm not in a union.

To heck with Unions! Don't want'em, don't need'em, they are aiding in the down fall of this country!

[Hlleonard]

I'm like Don in that my paycheck comes from the construction industry...been in this business for 31 years. And I say DOWN with the Unions!

Everyone agree's with this statement except of course those who are in a Union. All that strong arming crap is just that...CRAP!! I'm not saying a guy on an assembly line doesn't work hard, he probably does, day in, day out, going to the same stinking line everyday, lights blinking, obnoxious sounds, life on the assembly line probably stinks...but not EVERY guy on the line works hard so why should EVERY guy on the line get the same pay? Why should job security be based on how many years experience a guy has verses how good he is at the work he does. Total number of years experience does not always equate to excellent work produced so why pay Union Platinum Star-A top pay while also paying the Union Bench Warmer the equal amount? Same goes for teachers, some are excellent, some should not be teaching but yet the union treats them equally.

Why should people get a kickback from the Union when they're laid off so while they're laid off they bring home almost as much pay as when they're working? And why should I have to pay extra dollars to support my american brother's job AND help finance his pension by buying his product? It seems to me that I'm already doing my part by buying his american made product, this keeps him employed, but I sure as heck should NOT be charged an extra dollar to help fund his pension. If he wants a nest egg come retirment day then let him save it on his own. No one helps fund my pension...oops...I forgot...I don't have a pension plan because I'm not in a union.

To heck with Unions! Don't want'em, don't need'em, they are aiding in the down fall of this country!

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Unions have absolutely nothing to do with the downfall of this country ...Greed has everything to do with the downfall of this country ...If you want to live in the country that Rush Limbaugh would like to build then look at the middle eastern countries, they have various names and the folks at the top of the heap wash their hands in gold plated wash basins and drive gold plated BMW's while the people on the bottom end of the scale are trying to live on two biscuits a day ...Let the unions totally collapse and your head will spin at how fast the pay scale will be cut in half in plants like toyota where some people point out as a great place to work where unions aren't needed, The UAW in other auto plants are why those people have a decent job whether or not they are willing to admit it.

[Devils Horse]

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Unions have absolutely nothing to do with the downfall of this country ...Greed has everything to do with the downfall of this country ...If you want to live in the country that Rush Limbaugh would like to build then look at the middle eastern countries, they have various names and the folks at the top of the heap wash their hands in gold plated wash basins and drive gold plated BMW's while the people on the bottom end of the scale are trying to live on two biscuits a day ...Let the unions totally collapse and your head will spin at how fast the pay scale will be cut in half in plants like toyota where some people point out as a great place to work where unions aren't needed, The UAW in other auto plants are why those people have a decent job whether or not they are willing to admit it.

Comparing any middle east country to the US system is just plain crazy talk. What's wrong with an America that lives by our constitution?

I have no real problem with Unions as long as workers have a choice about whether to join. The problem is there are entire states where if you want to work there you HAVE to join a union. Slice it any way you want, that's just plain wrong.

Years ago I lived in Dayton, Ohio, and I had a neighbor who worked for one of the auto industry companies. The company was 100% union, you work there, you pay union dues. He made more money than me and had much better benefits despite my education and experience. By my estimation his total compensation including benefits was well over 100k for so called unskilled labor. This was in the late 80's, and Dayton had several such companies.

He told me stories of how the shop stewards controlled the work flow and limited productivity. More than once they privately reprimanded him for working too hard and getting outside the union's production formula. He also said you could get in more trouble for over-producing than slacking. The guy said it was next to impossible to lose his job for any reason unless the union wanted to get rid of you.

There are virtually none of those auto industry companies still in business in Dayton now.

[GeoFisher]

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Unions have absolutely nothing to do with the downfall of this country ...Greed has everything to do with the downfall of this country ...If you want to live in the country that Rush Limbaugh would like to build then look at the middle eastern countries, they have various names and the folks at the top of the heap wash their hands in gold plated wash basins and drive gold plated BMW's while the people on the bottom end of the scale are trying to live on two biscuits a day ...Let the unions totally collapse and your head will spin at how fast the pay scale will be cut in half in plants like toyota where some people point out as a great place to work where unions aren't needed, The UAW in other auto plants are why those people have a decent job whether or not they are willing to admit it.

GOD........I love it.......you blame the problems of middle eastern countries on capitalism?? You my friend need to go back to school and get some more of that UNION EDUCATION.........I mean REALLY.

Lets see............MOST of the problems over there are due to DICTATORSHIPS........and when DICTATORS run countries, bad things happen.

[Hlleonard]

GOD........I love it.......you blame the problems of middle eastern countries on capitalism?? You my friend need to go back to school and get some more of that UNION EDUCATION.........I mean REALLY.

Lets see............MOST of the problems over there are due to DICTATORSHIPS........and when DICTATORS run countries, bad things happen.

When the top half of the financial population (regardless of who they are) starts pushing the bottom half of the financial population to being deprived of a decent living then bad things happen ...This country is nowhere near what is happening in the middle east but we are a good bit closer than we were 25 years ago, Anybody that thinks that can't happen here if the trend continues into the future is sticking his head in the sand ...One way to turn it around is pay the people who work for you a decent wage so he can buy the things that he works to produce ...The only reason we have the illegals here is because business owners can hire them for half what an American citizen needs to stay off the welfare system so they choose to do that to increase their income with no regard for what it is doing to this country.

[Chubminnow]

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Unions have absolutely nothing to do with the downfall of this country ...Greed has everything to do with the downfall of this country.

I agree with half of what you wrote....Greed is the downfall for sure. Look at the big Union Leaders trying to hang the moon for the common man on the line or out in the field, just because he's a union man.

Yep....it's all about Greed!

[Chubminnow]

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Unions have absolutely nothing to do with the downfall of this country ...Greed has everything to do with the downfall of this country.

I guess I'll keep on supporting the U.A.W. by driving Chevrolets, always have and always will....but man, having to pay for all those U.A.W. employee benefit packages that makes their products above and beyond what they're really worth is about to break my back!

[lroberts]

Man I guess it's one of those things that if your union or been union your pro union. I'm not and I don't need to look past what they have tried to do in the construction industry that I'm in. Instead of competing fairly they support a governor elect and then get a wage law passed that demands we pay a fella who comes right out of high school working on a job with no experience $35 per hour!!! How does that make sense?? How many of you make that after working 20 years in your trade??
This stupid union law did one thing for sure.... Construction costs went up, unions still can't compete because they refuse to budge on what they feel is fair.
It's disturbing to work around some of these local factories that are union and watch the total waste of time and lack of work from some of the workers who feel they have a long process of warnings before they can be fired for doing something wrong. No fear of losing your job and that entitlement attitude is wrong. Too many folks cruise that way. How many times have the unions ruined a industry?? Auto industry? Airline? Educational? All of those are constantly demanding more money or benefits or playing strong arm tactics. Just look at Wisconsin right now. Unions should be busted.
The teachers called in sick... A lie. Kids were rushed in to present a show of force without any idea of why they were there. What about the kids who actually wanted to go to school? Was there a contract for those teachers to teach the kids or just lie and call in sick with no regard for what their responsibilities are?? Do that in a private job and see what happens. That move alone by those folks proves my point. They want something so they screw everyone to make a point.....is that what unions are about??? Band together and hold corporations, businesses and gubment officials hostage?

Teachers have leave days man.....didn't have to lie!

[Chubminnow]

Thanks Mr. Union man for making it difficult for me to make ends meet on a month-to-month basis, especially if one of those months see's my 1997 Chevy truck have to go in for repairs. I will be faithful to my country and I will buy American made products when I can, even though I don't understand why you have to have so much more money for your product Mr. Union man, I will still continue to support you. Although please understand Union Man that it's getting harder and harder for me to buy American because the Labor rates over seas are so much less than here in the states, some folks say that's because of you Mr. Union Man. I'm hoping that maybe at some point in the future when your Union goes to the bargaining table that you will have it in your heart to just say NO to no more extravagant wages, to just say NO to no more benefits, perhaps even less benefits? Perhaps you'll even have a big enough apple sack to be able to tell your Union Steward that enough is enough and your Union has taken advantage of the citizens of the United States for far to long.

One other thing I don't understand about Union guys....how come some of them buy foriegn pieces of crap with four wheels? It seems a Union man would support another Union man till the end.

Last but not least...I have a few friends who belong to a Union...U.P.S., U.A.W. and one or two others. It never fails that I ALWAYS get a sense that me and them are of a different mind set....I always sense that I work much harder than they do, or at least at a much faster pace anyway, we don't discuss it much but I can tell they're not on the same page as me...as for 40 hours per week, man I wish all I had to work was 40 hours per week. Time and a half, double time, double time and a half, what the heck is that all about? I get paid the same week in and week out regardless if I do 40 or 60 hours per week.

Anyway...thanks again Union man. Maybe one day I too will have it made like you.

[ukkid]

Thanks Mr. Union man for making it difficult for me to make ends meet on a month-to-month basis, especially if one of those months see's my 1997 Chevy truck have to go in for repairs. I will be faithful to my country and I will buy American made products when I can, even though I don't understand why you have to have so much more money for your product Mr. Union man, I will still continue to support you. Although please understand Union Man that it's getting harder and harder for me to buy American because the Labor rates over seas are so much less than here in the states, some folks say that's because of you Mr. Union Man. I'm hoping that maybe at some point in the future when your Union goes to the bargaining table that you will have it in your heart to just say NO to no more extravagant wages, to just say NO to no more benefits, perhaps even less benefits? Perhaps you'll even have a big enough apple sack to be able to tell your Union Steward that enough is enough and your Union has taken advantage of the citizens of the United States for far to long.

One other thing I don't understand about Union guys....how come some of them buy foriegn pieces of crap with four wheels? It seems a Union man would support another Union man till the end.

Last but not least...I have a few friends who belong to a Union...U.P.S., U.A.W. and one or two others. It never fails that I ALWAYS get a sense that me and them are of a different mind set....I always sense that I work much harder than they do, or at least at a much faster pace anyway, we don't discuss it much but I can tell they're not on the same page as me...as for 40 hours per week, man I wish all I had to work was 40 hours per week. Time and a half, double time, double time and a half, what the heck is that all about? I get paid the same week in and week out regardless if I do 40 or 60 hours per week.

Anyway...thanks again Union man. Maybe one day I too will have it made like you.

If you don't like and don't want to work in unionized labor,thats your choice. We union members happen to like good pay and benefits.....

[walkeraviator]

If you don't like and don't want to work in unionized labor,thats your choice. We union members happen to like good pay and benefits.....

But again are they "fair" pay and benefits? I agree that assembly line work is mind numbing and worthy of a fair wage. However, it takes no real qualifications to get the job initially. Yes it requires a lot of training from the company, but anyone who breaths and has a GED can get a job screwing a car together on an assembly line at Ford and make $50k/yr plus benefits. Yet, a guy who has a 4 year college degree, $50k in dept to training, and has the lives of numerous people in his hands every time he takes off makes less than unemplyment pays? Both of these pay scales are the result of unions. The UAW forces american car companies to pay out more than their labor is actually worth in health care, pensions, and legal fees every time teh UAW feels they need to arbitrate. ALPA on the otherhand sits on their hands, allows the airline companies to abuse low time pilots, while the upper end guys line their pockets with payoffs from the airlines.

Dont get me wrong there are good unions. My dad worked 35 years for the IUE as a maintenace electrician at the GE plant in Louisville. They did things to protect the union members and their pensions without destroying the company's ability to make a profit. For instance, the big concern with the UAW during the recent bailouts and stuff was paying pensions. The companies were bankrupt leaving them with no way to pay pensions of their employees. The IUE and GE have an agreement that a small percentage of every sale of GE merchandise goes into a seperate account for paying pensions that cannot be touched for any other purpose but pensions. To this date there are billions of untouchable dollars to pay those pensions whether the company goes under or not.

So again I am not saying ALL unions are bad, but the ones that ARE bad like the UAW are bad enough to destroy teh country all on their own.

And lastly, I am presently a Union member with the PHPA local 109, and let me tell you... the corruption at the top of our union is appauling, and it feels as though there is nothing we can do about it.

[Chubminnow]

But again are they "fair" pay and benefits?

So again I am not saying ALL unions are bad, but the ones that ARE bad like the UAW are bad enough to destroy teh country all on their own.

And lastly, I am presently a Union member with the PHPA local 109, and let me tell you... the corruption at the top of our union is appauling, and it feels as though there is nothing we can do about it.

Yes...I think that's the key term the majority in this country now agree with, are the pay and benefits both "fair" for the work performed?

I'm not saying all Unions are bad either because honestly I don't know a whole about about very many unions....but the stories I have heard from very reliable sources are just plumb crazy. To say all Unions are bad would be like saying all people are bad, there's good and there's bad. I just know of more bad rumors, stories, truths and facts than I know of good.

One question for you Walker...what is PHPA, what line of work is it associated with? Just curious...

As far as I'm concerned everything Kid has posted on this thread is only driving the nail further into the union workers coffin. It also seems to me that in todays economy anyone, ANYONE, would be glad to just have a job and they wouldn't worry if that job paid $20.00 + an hour or not, ESPECIALLY if his or her line of work comes from the construction industry.

One truth I have going on right now...I know of a construction project that is a state owned facility that is in the bidding phase. Guess what? The Union is trying to delay the bidding phase. Apples for Apples Union Man!! If you don't have enough time to bid then pull off now.

It sure would be nice if all government (state and federal) would eliminate the prevailing wage rates. I wonder how much money they would save if they did?