Mitch Daniels takes on LABOR

[walkeraviator]

PHPA is the Professional Helicopter Piloats Association. It is a union basically made up so we could have a union. Our international union is an office workers union.

Our biggest problem is that a grioup of like minded people have taken over the union by forcing out anybody not toeing the line with their beliefs. The problem is that we are currently in negotiations for a new contract and one of the guys negotiating has been fired by our compnay twice now and the company wont negotiate with him. So they INVENTED a union job so he could collect a pay check from our dues, and is a big ingredient in teh reason we are about to lose a contract all together.

Ill tell you this, under the old company that wasnt unionized, we may have worked a few more days a year for a few less dollars, but job security was better and you wee trated better by the managemnet. I had teh Chief Pilot's cell number and could call him any time. When we were up at corporate he would take us out for beers. You dont get that here because the management is afraid of what teh union will say if they do.

[DJD]

Teachers have leave days man.....didn't have to lie!

I don't think you know anymore info than I do on this. When that story broke it was reported they called in sick. Who the heck knows??? Regardless they still tried to bully the system and left kids at home. If it was your kids and your tax dollars would you like it???

[DJD]

You are talking to def ears here. They think a rich man make 4.50 an hour but bitch and moan about any tax we pay. They will support a trillion dollar war but slam a person disabled on the draw. Go figure.

Actually you have shown that you support anything the old Dem controlled Congress did and Obamy did as always right. So you support trillions of debt by them and every new tax possible huh? Everyone in this country deserves to be middle class? You can just sukk off the gubment teet forever? The recent elections proves your a minority in your thinking. The true middle class is waking up and finally flexing their muscles and much to your dismay Sarah Palin had alot to do with it. Yep I tossed that name out just for you.... Politicians love blind dedication to their ideals so I'm sure your on their A list.

Myself like many others on here can have varied opinions that don't fall in line with how their party of choice preaches. I'm an independant (registered Repub) with Conservative beliefs. If this state had a better system of allowing Indy's to vote I would have stayed Indy. I'm not 100% on board with what the GOP has done in the past and the same goes for the Dems.

Every american should question an increase in taxes. Why not? Thats the american way is it not? We have a freedom of choice and for the most part we can say what we want in this country. We should question why we are in debt up to our ears, we should question why this POTUS has done what he has done while in office. To this day folks still act as if George Bush ruined this country and yet the POTUS and his old Congress has done more financial damage then GW but BO gets a pass from liberal koolaid drinkers. Go figure...

As far as the war goes.... How many dates and timelines to withdraw troops or end the war did the american people hear from BO duing his campaign? Remember how he would get the crowds fired up spewing that garbage? How many have stayed true? How many dates have passed? He promised the world to us and delivered what? So does that now mean the Liberals support the war? We are still there...either he doesn't know what he is talking about or he is full of it. After all the POTUS supports the wars, the old Dem controlled congress supported it so that means you support it?? Right??

No deaf ears here Parker....just folks that want answers and if that means we have to bounce ideas off others so be it. Take note you might learn something just take your hands off your ears and open your eyes. I actually like hearing the views of the left...I don't always agree but I'm smart enough to know there other views out there.

[Devils Horse]

Actually you have shown that you support anything the old Dem controlled Congress did and Obamy did as always right. So you support trillions of debt by them and every new tax possible huh? Everyone in this country deserves to be middle class? You can just sukk off the gubment teet forever? The recent elections proves your a minority in your thinking. The true middle class is waking up and finally flexing their muscles and much to your dismay Sarah Palin had alot to do with it. Yep I tossed that name out just for you.... Politicians love blind dedication to their ideals so I'm sure your on their A list.

Myself like many others on here can have varied opinions that don't fall in line with how their party of choice preaches. I'm an independant (registered Repub) with Conservative beliefs. If this state had a better system of allowing Indy's to vote I would have stayed Indy. I'm not 100% on board with what the GOP has done in the past and the same goes for the Dems.

Every american should question an increase in taxes. Why not? Thats the american way is it not? We have a freedom of choice and for the most part we can say what we want in this country. We should question why we are in debt up to our ears, we should question why this POTUS has done what he has done while in office. To this day folks still act as if George Bush ruined this country and yet the POTUS and his old Congress has done more financial damage then GW but BO gets a pass from liberal koolaid drinkers. Go figure...

As far as the war goes.... How many dates and timelines to withdraw troops or end the war did the american people hear from BO duing his campaign? Remember how he would get the crowds fired up spewing that garbage? How many have stayed true? How many dates have passed? He promised the world to us and delivered what? So does that now mean the Liberals support the war? We are still there...either he doesn't know what he is talking about or he is full of it. After all the POTUS supports the wars, the old Dem controlled congress supported it so that means you support it?? Right??

No deaf ears here Parker....just folks that want answers and if that means we have to bounce ideas off others so be it. Take note you might learn something just take your hands off your ears and open your eyes. I actually like hearing the views of the left...I don't always agree but I'm smart enough to know there other views out there.

You nailed it Don.

[kygorski]

DJD ever work high iron? would you trust just anyone operating a tower crane? Would you let a new guy plan and build a 20 story elevator shaft? Some unions have apprentace programs a worker must pass to be a certified journey man. I saw new houses being built in birmingham, that 5 yrs later were almost condemed, BillyBob construction, left sewer lines loosly connected, Atlanta subdivision, used the cheap schedule plactic pipe for sewage, 4 yra later the whole subdivision was socked with the cost of replacing it, BiilBob construction, and his crew Juan, Pedro, hesus, all gone. Hate unions, what is the AMA, The bar association? Get a bunch of yahoos putting up a 5 story wall, and not checking plumb lines, but hey they are only making 5 bucks an hour. When I got out of the army, worked with american bridge, but it was almost seasonal work, building missle silos out west, no yahoos needed to apply.you talk about constructiion, do you hire cheap or competent contractors?Good contractors have jourymen,who know and take pride in their work.I worked iron one year, and frankly it scared the s--t out of me, so went into industry, chemicals to be exact, and retired as a hydrogen plant tech.Not a union job then.

[DJD]

DJD ever work high iron? would you trust just anyone operating a tower crane? Would you let a new guy plan and build a 20 story elevator shaft? Some unions have apprentace programs a worker must pass to be a certified journey man. I saw new houses being built in birmingham, that 5 yrs later were almost condemed, BillyBob construction, left sewer lines loosly connected, Atlanta subdivision, used the cheap schedule plactic pipe for sewage, 4 yra later the whole subdivision was socked with the cost of replacing it, BiilBob construction, and his crew Juan, Pedro, hesus, all gone. Hate unions, what is the AMA, The bar association? Get a bunch of yahoos putting up a 5 story wall, and not checking plumb lines, but hey they are only making 5 bucks an hour. When I got out of the army, worked with american bridge, but it was almost seasonal work, building missle silos out west, no yahoos needed to apply.you talk about constructiion, do you hire cheap or competent contractors?Good contractors have jourymen,who know and take pride in their work.I worked iron one year, and frankly it scared the s--t out of me, so went into industry, chemicals to be exact, and retired as a hydrogen plant tech.Not a union job then.

No Sir I have not worked high iron...they can have it! That takes taters the size of uhhh taters!
We work with Union contractors day in and day out and I'm speaking about Electrical and Mechanical Unions that I see in my line of work. Naturally, the folks I work with are awesome and my opinion has nothing to do with their character or personal beliefs.

I do get to hear the "Union" side of the arguments of why they can't seem to compete unless they cut their prices to the bone. They are bound to pay their guys a certain rate which is why that "Prevailing Wage" law went into effect. The hopes were that if we paid our guys that high wage mandated by area or county then we would all be on level playing ground. What noone considered is that non union owners (who are directly responsible for the mans pay and makes decisions daily on how to keep the doors open) worked out doing more work without having 10 journeymen on each job so they could pay a supervisor his proper rate and pay the non-licensed guys they prevailing wages. When they get licensed and earn their way then it's their turn to get paid for their committment to their trade.

The jobs the union contractors get are usually very large (Hospitals, UK, Toyota) that demand a huge amount of labor in a short amount of time. Smaller non union companies can't compete with that and by smaller I'm even talking 50-70 men not being enough. The non union folks still have apprentice programs to become licensed journymen or master electricians and have their continuing education classes as required by KECA/codes. So the quality is the same with good and bad in each.

In the trade I'm in and the trades I deal with there are little to no illegals since the education required usually weeds them out especially with background checks/security clearances/drug tests for specific gubment jobs. I know for sure that trades that only require a strong back and ability to work in the trenches will attract the lower educated or hard on their luck folks. Thats just a fact of life and we need people in all pay grades. Heck most of us started the same way and decided to better educate ourselves or our parents pushed us.

I guess what I am living proof of is that hard work and not being in a union and working for small companies that support 20 or more employees pays the bills and if your good at what you do a person can do very well. No union involved at all. The private sector is where it's at in my eyes. I don't have the security blanket that unions do. My buddy who works at UPS is a proud union member. Great for him and he was around when UPS went on strike in the 90's (i think) and it was rough. He made enemies with friends who crossed the picket lines because they had to work to support their families and it tore alot of people apart. I just disagree with that mentailty. Isn't getting paid 50-100K a year driving package trucks and tractor trailers enough? What skill do they have? Walk fast? Healthy backs? Organizational skills? I just don't see it ......

[billm_usa1]

Mitch Daniels takes on LABOR ?
I'm not sure where you got this or why you have attributed every one of these personally to Mitch Daniels beliefs. Everything listed are items proposed by the different legislative members. Daniels is on record that we have higher priorities to address during this spring's legislative session.

The issue of township government is really high on exactly what a township is supposed to provide vs the cities and counties. Poor relief was the major responsibility of the township but many have been turned into family businesses.

[dac244]

No Sir I have not worked high iron...they can have it! That takes taters the size of uhhh taters!
We work with Union contractors day in and day out and I'm speaking about Electrical and Mechanical Unions that I see in my line of work. Naturally, the folks I work with are awesome and my opinion has nothing to do with their character or personal beliefs.

I do get to hear the "Union" side of the arguments of why they can't seem to compete unless they cut their prices to the bone. They are bound to pay their guys a certain rate which is why that "Prevailing Wage" law went into effect. The hopes were that if we paid our guys that high wage mandated by area or county then we would all be on level playing ground. What noone considered is that non union owners (who are directly responsible for the mans pay and makes decisions daily on how to keep the doors open) worked out doing more work without having 10 journeymen on each job so they could pay a supervisor his proper rate and pay the non-licensed guys they prevailing wages. When they get licensed and earn their way then it's their turn to get paid for their committment to their trade.

The jobs the union contractors get are usually very large (Hospitals, UK, Toyota) that demand a huge amount of labor in a short amount of time. Smaller non union companies can't compete with that and by smaller I'm even talking 50-70 men not being enough. The non union folks still have apprentice programs to become licensed journymen or master electricians and have their continuing education classes as required by KECA/codes. So the quality is the same with good and bad in each.

In the trade I'm in and the trades I deal with there are little to no illegals since the education required usually weeds them out especially with background checks/security clearances/drug tests for specific gubment jobs. I know for sure that trades that only require a strong back and ability to work in the trenches will attract the lower educated or hard on their luck folks. Thats just a fact of life and we need people in all pay grades. Heck most of us started the same way and decided to better educate ourselves or our parents pushed us.

I guess what I am living proof of is that hard work and not being in a union and working for small companies that support 20 or more employees pays the bills and if your good at what you do a person can do very well. No union involved at all. The private sector is where it's at in my eyes. I don't have the security blanket that unions do. My buddy who works at UPS is a proud union member. Great for him and he was around when UPS went on strike in the 90's (i think) and it was rough. He made enemies with friends who crossed the picket lines because they had to work to support their families and it tore alot of people apart. I just disagree with that mentailty. Isn't getting paid 50-100K a year driving package trucks and tractor trailers enough? What skill do they have? Walk fast? Healthy backs? Organizational skills? I just don't see it ......

You might want to do your research on prevailing wage It wasn't started by or for unions.

[Chubminnow]

You might want to do your research on prevailing wage It wasn't started by or for unions.

Great! So please enlighten us as to who started prevailing wage and why. Oh c'mon, you threw it out here, surely you know.

[dac244]

Great! So please enlighten us as to who started prevailing wage and why. Oh c'mon, you threw it out here, surely you know.

You tell me you seem like you got all the answers.

[GeoFisher]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevailing_wage

they still **** BUTT..........Prevailing wages should be established by WHAT the INDUSTRY is willing to pay........NOT some ******** gubment pencil pusher.

[DJD]

You might want to do your research on prevailing wage It wasn't started by or for unions.

Everything I have read on this mentions Unions. They are for it and think it's a great idea. That alone tells you everything you need to know.

The Union folks I deal with told me that when Pattoon signed that Bill into Law in 1997 it was so they could be more competitive. Patton publicly supported "collective wage bargaining" during his campaign and had the backing of Labor Unions.....and wouldn't you know he was elected. Again more info that supports him doing payback to the folks who got him elected. Just google him and prevailing wage laws and read it you will find what I found.

If your looking for a statement from the Unions that they sent money to Patton to push or renew this Bill you prolly won't find it but backing a candidate means just that.....Thats how it works.

Most laws are brought upon us by a perceived need or personal agenda. Someone of influence has to back that Bill and it's usually tied to some group with money. Many laws are out there that are not enforced and an original prevailing wage law was passed for Ky in 1940. I don't know or care what it said but as I stated Patton passed his version in 1997. I was bidding construction work at that time(still am) and it was the rage of the Union boys. We heard all kinds of stuff on it's about time the non-union contractors have to bid the same dollars as them so regardless of what is written on this topic......I lived it.

If you know any different I welcome the info. I have alot more data if you like that supports my claims. Info from other states like Michigan tells the same story. Unions are behind this.

I did what you asked so now it's your turn....or you just wanted me to read more about a subject that makes me sick. Which one is it??

http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/lrcpubs/RR304.pdf

https://www.mackinac.org/8909