Elected Officials

[Chubminnow]

I believe Don is right in what's going on in Wisconsin in that what's going on up there isn't about big Corporations and Unions, it's about tax payers and Unions. The thing is they're running out of money FAST, and they (the government) need to stop the bleeding. I feel that unions have no place in government. Electrical workers Union, U.A.W. and others that's fine, if they want to have their unions and if people want to work for them that's fine too, but having a teachers union? Naw...I don't think it's right, not right at all! Heck...every school board employee pays union dues to the teachers union don't they, whether they're a teacher or not, janitor's, kitchen workers, you name it...engineers at facility planning units are part of it too I believe. If teachers get raises then so do the folks at the main facility, it works the other way around to, no raise for teachers = no raise for the folks in engineering.

And then....what's all this stuff about a government employee being able to buy x-amount of years of their retirement? I know there have been folks who worked for the government their entire working career and was able to retire in their 40's!!...ok, if you have pen and paper write this down....Let's say employee A retires in their 40's, now we gotta hire employee B to replace them. Employee B retires in their 40's too, so we gotta hire emplyee C. It looks to me like at some point the government is paying retirement benefits for employee A, employee B and also paying a wage for employee C who now fills in for employee B all before employee A hits the "official" retirement age of 65. That means for a period of time the tax payer is stuck with paying for three people to do one persons job. It's this kind of ridiculous benefit packages that is a major reaason why this country doesn't have any money. Forget all about all of those extravagant retirement and benefit packages for government workers, unionized or not, throw it out the window!

As for other unions, Electrical workers, sheet metal workers, auto workers, etc...if they want to have unions that's fine. If they can have unions AND compete with company's and corporations that are non-union, that's GREAT, have at it!

Someone here mentioned something about unions being the reason for many non-union workers having benefited from them in a cursory way....whether it be monetarily or workplace safety, etc. I do not dispute that either, it's probably true. But on the flip side of the coin...the price of union made goods have driven a very large percentage of jobs over seas.

[Chubminnow]

If employers voluntarily paid their employees a decent wage then unions would not be necessary and neither would illegals who have affected pay scales a great deal, Employers will pay an illegal half the wage to get a job done just because he can ...Most Americans don't wish to live 10 or 20 in a trailer or house the way these folks do, If a company owner or operator wants their work force to live that way then they are doing a great disservice to our way of life.

I gaurantee you that a nice sized percentage of the Mexicans you see ARE definitely illegal. And you're correct in that employers will pay a mexican half what a jobs really worth just because he can.

Now...let's throw this into the equation...how many young legal white boys (or black) do you see at an employers door looking to get hired for one of these jobs the mexicans do? Usually not very many. I don't know the pay scales of various construction jobs either....but I wonder what a "decent wage" per hour would be for a guy who hangs and finishes drywall? Lot of young folks out there don't have the attitude of work-work-work and then work some more, gain knowledge and skill and put in their due's so to speak...they want to walk before they crawl.

Oh well...these dag gone topics on government, unions, mexicans etc tend to make me rant....Hey Ironrobert or whatever your name is...don't go blasting me if I wrote something I have no knowledge of cause I never claimed I knew anything to begin with...it's just like everything else in my life...I've learned by doing and being involved. One of my moto's has been to not open my mouth much and let'm "think" I'm stupid instead of opening my mouth and letting'm "know" I'm stupid, lol...

[roughriderbill]

In my opion I think the worst thing is a teacher union and tender if a teacher is not up to teaching and doing it in a way that keeps the intrest of the sudents get them out. I went to parent teacher conf. and my sons teacher ask me what grade I wanted for her to give him, of course I told her give him what he earns not just give him an A or B to keep him on the football team thats what is worng. Be able to get the bad out and keep or bring in new more talented teachers, union or not be able to get the lazy ones out JMO.

[lroberts]

"Heck...every school board employee pays union dues to the teachers union don't they, whether they're a teacher or not, janitor's, kitchen workers, you name it...engineers at facility planning units are part of it too I believe. If teachers get raises then so do the folks at the main facility, it works the other way around to, no raise for teachers = no raise for the folks in engineering."

This is not true.....a teachers union is just that....for teachers. Administrators, school board members, and maintnance/engineers/utility workers are not included. Also, there is a strict rule on when you can retire with full benefits. Anytime you retire early you lose a big portion of it. A teacher can "buy out" some years of service in some corporations, but it is very costly and the corporation actually comes out ahead.....why you ask....because they go hire a person right out of college and can pay them the lowest salary on the scale. Teachers Unions actually have very little power, compared to private sector unions. Teachers (tenured or not) can be fired with just cause. Lack of performance, incompetence, or insubordination are all causes for dismissal....and it does happen.

Chubminnow.....I call it as I see it. You were saying things that led me to infer you thought you knew what you were talking about....and you were off base. Its not personal, I'll try to be more contructive in my criticism next time.

[Chubminnow]

Lack of performance, incompetence, or insubordination are all causes for dismissal....and it does happen.

It may happen...sometimes...usually with an act of congress to help make it happen though, at least from what I have seen anyway. Granted, I don't work for any school district so I'm not there all that often, but from what few times I do go on school property and see the things I see, there just needs to be some replacements made. So....I guess if these other workers don't belong to the teachers union it's hard to get rid of them because they work for the state/county?

The line between union and government seems awfully blurred to me and to much of either one is not a good thing.

[lroberts]

It may happen...sometimes...usually with an act of congress to help make it happen though, at least from what I have seen anyway. Granted, I don't work for any school district so I'm not there all that often, but from what few times I do go on school property and see the things I see, there just needs to be some replacements made. So....I guess if these other workers don't belong to the teachers union it's hard to get rid of them because they work for the state/county?

The line between union and government seems awfully blurred to me and to much of either one is not a good thing.

"So....I guess if these other workers don't belong to the teachers union it's hard to get rid of them because they work for the state/county?"



They are considered "at-will" employees and can be fired at any time for just cause.

[Chubminnow]

They are considered "at-will" employees and can be fired at any time for just cause.

Ok...if that's true somebody ought to be gettin' up off their can and do it then. It's probably easier said than done. Even in private industry it's hard to let people go, seen it to many times.

[kydonky]

Kentucky is an "at will employment state"

Private industry can fire anyone, anytime for any reason. (other than discrimination,issues .....black, white, jewish, girl, boy ect.)

Don't like pants..fired

Don't like haircut...fired

Can the employee collect unemployment benifits. Yes!

Can employer be sued. No!

If the employee looses his job through no fault of hisown he can get unemployment benifits. But thats it. (unless discrimination laws were broken)

[kydonky]

Kentucky is an "at will employment state"

Private industry can fire anyone, anytime for any reason. (other than discrimination,issues .....black, white, jewish, girl, boy ect.)

Don't like pants..fired

Don't like haircut...fired

Can the employee collect unemployment benifits. Yes!

Can employer be sued. No!

If the employee looses his job through no fault of hisown he can get unemployment benifits. But thats it. (unless discrimination laws were broken)

This can be changed with a contract. Union employment is contract labor. However, there are many types of contract labor that do not involve unions. Subcontracting is an example. Distributorships another. And many companies offer a contract with employment (outside of union representation). Break a contract and you can be sued.

[GeoFisher]

Kentucky is an "at will employment state"

Private industry can fire anyone, anytime for any reason. (other than discrimination,issues .....black, white, jewish, girl, boy ect.)

Don't like pants..fired

Don't like haircut...fired

Can the employee collect unemployment benifits. Yes!

Can employer be sued. No!

If the employee looses his job through no fault of hisown he can get unemployment benifits. But thats it. (unless discrimination laws were broken)

WHATS wrong with THAT........it is not your RIGHT to be employed. Any employer should be able to fire you for ANYTHING........PERIOD. YOU do not have a right to work PERIOD..........end of story.

When people get over the entitlement ******** ideas, maybe we will get back to realistic values.

Lose your job because they fire you BECAUSE they didn't like your pants. FIND a different job, because the boss was probably a freakin douche anyways.......

WHY should you really CARE about getting fired for something lame.

You know LIFE is not fair. When we try to legislate fairness in "life" we get the garbage we have now. MOVE ON, get over it and stop crying about it.

My company gets tired of me or outsources me to India for 1/4 of what I make........MORE power to them. I will find something better, and probably with BETTER PAY. Good people can make it happen. Now granted, there is nothing in Louisville for me, but hell, I've always wanted to live in Phoenix, or Minnesota, or Texas, or Florida, or Tennessee, or, or, or......you get the picture.

Later,

Geo

[Hlleonard]

WHATS wrong with THAT........it is not your RIGHT to be employed. Any employer should be able to fire you for ANYTHING........PERIOD. YOU do not have a right to work PERIOD..........end of story.

When people get over the entitlement ******** ideas, maybe we will get back to realistic values.

Lose your job because they fire you BECAUSE they didn't like your pants. FIND a different job, because the boss was probably a freakin douche anyways.......

WHY should you really CARE about getting fired for something lame.

You know LIFE is not fair. When we try to legislate fairness in "life" we get the garbage we have now. MOVE ON, get over it and stop crying about it.

My company gets tired of me or outsources me to India for 1/4 of what I make........MORE power to them. I will find something better, and probably with BETTER PAY. Good people can make it happen. Now granted, there is nothing in Louisville for me, but hell, I've always wanted to live in Phoenix, or Minnesota, or Texas, or Florida, or Tennessee, or, or, or......you get the picture.

Later,

Geo

Mr Fisher, I guess all the folks who care about the preservation of our way of life that has served us well for the last hundred years or so can do is hope you, Rush and the others like you don't gain enough power to completely destroy the fabric of this country ...If that happens then I guess we will start to see the job market pick up as we will be the country where jobs are shipped to, we can be the new Mexico or some other country where the upper half has most of the resources and the rest of us have to work in sweat shops.

[GeoFisher]

Mr Fisher, I guess all the folks who care about the preservation of our way of life that has served us well for the last hundred years or so can do is hope you, Rush and the others like you don't gain enough power to completely destroy the fabric of this country ...If that happens then I guess we will start to see the job market pick up as we will be the country where jobs are shipped to, we can be the new Mexico or some other country where the upper half has most of the resources and the rest of us have to work in sweat shops.

Now I will agree with you definitely there, and I'd love to see FREE trade turned more into FAIR TRADE.......Places like Mexico and India have virtually no rules on employment the environment, etc, etc. I'd like to see our government crack down on companies that move to places that don't give a rip about workers. Maybe that is where the gubment should stick their noses, and stop bitching about collective bargaining rights here.

Collective bargaining has ran its course. Maybe there are still some dangerous jobs that should allow bargaining to keep them safe, but for Teachers Unions to exists, and for the UAW to have as much control as they do........GET REAL.

Later,

Geo