Elected Officials

[lroberts]

"Heck...every school board employee pays union dues to the teachers union don't they, whether they're a teacher or not, janitor's, kitchen workers, you name it...engineers at facility planning units are part of it too I believe. If teachers get raises then so do the folks at the main facility, it works the other way around to, no raise for teachers = no raise for the folks in engineering."

This is not true.....a teachers union is just that....for teachers. Administrators, school board members, and maintnance/engineers/utility workers are not included. Also, there is a strict rule on when you can retire with full benefits. Anytime you retire early you lose a big portion of it. A teacher can "buy out" some years of service in some corporations, but it is very costly and the corporation actually comes out ahead.....why you ask....because they go hire a person right out of college and can pay them the lowest salary on the scale. Teachers Unions actually have very little power, compared to private sector unions. Teachers (tenured or not) can be fired with just cause. Lack of performance, incompetence, or insubordination are all causes for dismissal....and it does happen.

Chubminnow.....I call it as I see it. You were saying things that led me to infer you thought you knew what you were talking about....and you were off base. Its not personal, I'll try to be more contructive in my criticism next time.

[Chubminnow]

Lack of performance, incompetence, or insubordination are all causes for dismissal....and it does happen.

It may happen...sometimes...usually with an act of congress to help make it happen though, at least from what I have seen anyway. Granted, I don't work for any school district so I'm not there all that often, but from what few times I do go on school property and see the things I see, there just needs to be some replacements made. So....I guess if these other workers don't belong to the teachers union it's hard to get rid of them because they work for the state/county?

The line between union and government seems awfully blurred to me and to much of either one is not a good thing.

[lroberts]

It may happen...sometimes...usually with an act of congress to help make it happen though, at least from what I have seen anyway. Granted, I don't work for any school district so I'm not there all that often, but from what few times I do go on school property and see the things I see, there just needs to be some replacements made. So....I guess if these other workers don't belong to the teachers union it's hard to get rid of them because they work for the state/county?

The line between union and government seems awfully blurred to me and to much of either one is not a good thing.

"So....I guess if these other workers don't belong to the teachers union it's hard to get rid of them because they work for the state/county?"



They are considered "at-will" employees and can be fired at any time for just cause.

[Chubminnow]

They are considered "at-will" employees and can be fired at any time for just cause.

Ok...if that's true somebody ought to be gettin' up off their can and do it then. It's probably easier said than done. Even in private industry it's hard to let people go, seen it to many times.

[kydonky]

Kentucky is an "at will employment state"

Private industry can fire anyone, anytime for any reason. (other than discrimination,issues .....black, white, jewish, girl, boy ect.)

Don't like pants..fired

Don't like haircut...fired

Can the employee collect unemployment benifits. Yes!

Can employer be sued. No!

If the employee looses his job through no fault of hisown he can get unemployment benifits. But thats it. (unless discrimination laws were broken)

[kydonky]

Kentucky is an "at will employment state"

Private industry can fire anyone, anytime for any reason. (other than discrimination,issues .....black, white, jewish, girl, boy ect.)

Don't like pants..fired

Don't like haircut...fired

Can the employee collect unemployment benifits. Yes!

Can employer be sued. No!

If the employee looses his job through no fault of hisown he can get unemployment benifits. But thats it. (unless discrimination laws were broken)

This can be changed with a contract. Union employment is contract labor. However, there are many types of contract labor that do not involve unions. Subcontracting is an example. Distributorships another. And many companies offer a contract with employment (outside of union representation). Break a contract and you can be sued.

[GeoFisher]

Kentucky is an "at will employment state"

Private industry can fire anyone, anytime for any reason. (other than discrimination,issues .....black, white, jewish, girl, boy ect.)

Don't like pants..fired

Don't like haircut...fired

Can the employee collect unemployment benifits. Yes!

Can employer be sued. No!

If the employee looses his job through no fault of hisown he can get unemployment benifits. But thats it. (unless discrimination laws were broken)

WHATS wrong with THAT........it is not your RIGHT to be employed. Any employer should be able to fire you for ANYTHING........PERIOD. YOU do not have a right to work PERIOD..........end of story.

When people get over the entitlement ******** ideas, maybe we will get back to realistic values.

Lose your job because they fire you BECAUSE they didn't like your pants. FIND a different job, because the boss was probably a freakin douche anyways.......

WHY should you really CARE about getting fired for something lame.

You know LIFE is not fair. When we try to legislate fairness in "life" we get the garbage we have now. MOVE ON, get over it and stop crying about it.

My company gets tired of me or outsources me to India for 1/4 of what I make........MORE power to them. I will find something better, and probably with BETTER PAY. Good people can make it happen. Now granted, there is nothing in Louisville for me, but hell, I've always wanted to live in Phoenix, or Minnesota, or Texas, or Florida, or Tennessee, or, or, or......you get the picture.

Later,

Geo

[Hlleonard]

WHATS wrong with THAT........it is not your RIGHT to be employed. Any employer should be able to fire you for ANYTHING........PERIOD. YOU do not have a right to work PERIOD..........end of story.

When people get over the entitlement ******** ideas, maybe we will get back to realistic values.

Lose your job because they fire you BECAUSE they didn't like your pants. FIND a different job, because the boss was probably a freakin douche anyways.......

WHY should you really CARE about getting fired for something lame.

You know LIFE is not fair. When we try to legislate fairness in "life" we get the garbage we have now. MOVE ON, get over it and stop crying about it.

My company gets tired of me or outsources me to India for 1/4 of what I make........MORE power to them. I will find something better, and probably with BETTER PAY. Good people can make it happen. Now granted, there is nothing in Louisville for me, but hell, I've always wanted to live in Phoenix, or Minnesota, or Texas, or Florida, or Tennessee, or, or, or......you get the picture.

Later,

Geo

Mr Fisher, I guess all the folks who care about the preservation of our way of life that has served us well for the last hundred years or so can do is hope you, Rush and the others like you don't gain enough power to completely destroy the fabric of this country ...If that happens then I guess we will start to see the job market pick up as we will be the country where jobs are shipped to, we can be the new Mexico or some other country where the upper half has most of the resources and the rest of us have to work in sweat shops.

[GeoFisher]

Mr Fisher, I guess all the folks who care about the preservation of our way of life that has served us well for the last hundred years or so can do is hope you, Rush and the others like you don't gain enough power to completely destroy the fabric of this country ...If that happens then I guess we will start to see the job market pick up as we will be the country where jobs are shipped to, we can be the new Mexico or some other country where the upper half has most of the resources and the rest of us have to work in sweat shops.

Now I will agree with you definitely there, and I'd love to see FREE trade turned more into FAIR TRADE.......Places like Mexico and India have virtually no rules on employment the environment, etc, etc. I'd like to see our government crack down on companies that move to places that don't give a rip about workers. Maybe that is where the gubment should stick their noses, and stop bitching about collective bargaining rights here.

Collective bargaining has ran its course. Maybe there are still some dangerous jobs that should allow bargaining to keep them safe, but for Teachers Unions to exists, and for the UAW to have as much control as they do........GET REAL.

Later,

Geo

[kydonky]

WHATS wrong with THAT........it is not your RIGHT to be employed. Any employer should be able to fire you for ANYTHING........PERIOD. YOU do not have a right to work PERIOD..........end of story.

When people get over the entitlement ******** ideas, maybe we will get back to realistic values.

Lose your job because they fire you BECAUSE they didn't like your pants. FIND a different job, because the boss was probably a freakin douche anyways.......

WHY should you really CARE about getting fired for something lame.

You know LIFE is not fair. When we try to legislate fairness in "life" we get the garbage we have now. MOVE ON, get over it and stop crying about it.

My company gets tired of me or outsources me to India for 1/4 of what I make........MORE power to them. I will find something better, and probably with BETTER PAY. Good people can make it happen. Now granted, there is nothing in Louisville for me, but hell, I've always wanted to live in Phoenix, or Minnesota, or Texas, or Florida, or Tennessee, or, or, or......you get the picture.

Later,

Geo

Nothing wrong with that. Just saying that KY is an at will employment state.

If you want any job security in KY you need to have an employment contract. Then you know what is expected of you and your employer will pay you per the terms of your contract.

If there are terms in your contract that say he will not replace you if the job is needed and you meet standards, he cannot fire you and hire a new worker from Mexico at a fourth of your salary.

How do you get an employment contract? One way is through union representation or you may negotiate a contract for yourself with your employer.

Many (if not most) independant insurance agents have contracts with the insurance carriers like Allstate, Nationwise, State Auto. If the agent meets the sales criteria and other requirements of the contract, the company will not replace him with an another agent. Some contracts may have geographical districts that protect the agent from unfair compition in an area for the same product. But if the agent does not meet sales quota, breaks a law, or misrepresents himself or a product, the company may fire him as well as sue him for damages.

So unions are just another employment contract. Some good for both employer and employee and some contracts not good for either or both.

I guess the country is changing. We have all of these disposable products coming from China, use once and throw away. I guess it's just the next step to have disposable people. Work for a company for 29 years and have to take two weeks off sick, just fire them and get you a new one from Mexico, India or Korea.

Geo I don't think you would like Phoenix very long. You would be trading your boat for a dune buggy. Its a long way to Lake Mead or lake Powell.

[GeoFisher]

Geo I don't think you would like Phoenix very long. You would be trading your boat for a dune buggy. Its a long way to Lake Mead or lake Powell.

Maybe I'd become GeoFlyer again.......I used to be really big into RC aircraft. I had to pick which one to pursue. I loved fishing but I also loved flying. I picked fishing because it was cheaper.

Of course, it was cheaper before Loomis rods, before canoes, before canada trips, before 10 day trips to KY lake, before the boat.........etc, etc.

I think my wife would LOVE for me to give up fishing and take up flying RC again........at least I'd be home every night after flying. Of course, she does like me gone............HM.

Later,

Geo

[kydonky]

Maybe I'd become GeoFlyer again.......I used to be really big into RC aircraft. I had to pick which one to pursue. I loved fishing but I also loved flying. I picked fishing because it was cheaper.

Of course, it was cheaper before Loomis rods, before canoes, before canada trips, before 10 day trips to KY lake, before the boat.........etc, etc.

I think my wife would LOVE for me to give up fishing and take up flying RC again........at least I'd be home every night after flying. Of course, she does like me gone............HM.

Later,

Geo

Funny you should mention flying. I have been looking at this new sport pilot license. Fly a two place (seat plane) under 7000 ft. single engine, no turbo, fixed gear, gross weight 1380 lbs, daylight only. No medical (other than that to get a drivers lic.).

A lot of planes out there that qualify, Luscombe 8a, piper cubs, Taylorcraft, areonca cheif. Even Cessna has come out with a new sport plane the 162. 20 hours is all you need.

Wife is not convinced yet. I think I'm going to push for a new harley, then after a while we may compromise with an areoca cheif sport plane.