Elected Officials

[Chubminnow]

I believe Don is right in what's going on in Wisconsin in that what's going on up there isn't about big Corporations and Unions, it's about tax payers and Unions. The thing is they're running out of money FAST, and they (the government) need to stop the bleeding. I feel that unions have no place in government. Electrical workers Union, U.A.W. and others that's fine, if they want to have their unions and if people want to work for them that's fine too, but having a teachers union? Naw...I don't think it's right, not right at all! Heck...every school board employee pays union dues to the teachers union don't they, whether they're a teacher or not, janitor's, kitchen workers, you name it...engineers at facility planning units are part of it too I believe. If teachers get raises then so do the folks at the main facility, it works the other way around to, no raise for teachers = no raise for the folks in engineering.

And then....what's all this stuff about a government employee being able to buy x-amount of years of their retirement? I know there have been folks who worked for the government their entire working career and was able to retire in their 40's!!...ok, if you have pen and paper write this down....Let's say employee A retires in their 40's, now we gotta hire employee B to replace them. Employee B retires in their 40's too, so we gotta hire emplyee C. It looks to me like at some point the government is paying retirement benefits for employee A, employee B and also paying a wage for employee C who now fills in for employee B all before employee A hits the "official" retirement age of 65. That means for a period of time the tax payer is stuck with paying for three people to do one persons job. It's this kind of ridiculous benefit packages that is a major reaason why this country doesn't have any money. Forget all about all of those extravagant retirement and benefit packages for government workers, unionized or not, throw it out the window!

As for other unions, Electrical workers, sheet metal workers, auto workers, etc...if they want to have unions that's fine. If they can have unions AND compete with company's and corporations that are non-union, that's GREAT, have at it!

Someone here mentioned something about unions being the reason for many non-union workers having benefited from them in a cursory way....whether it be monetarily or workplace safety, etc. I do not dispute that either, it's probably true. But on the flip side of the coin...the price of union made goods have driven a very large percentage of jobs over seas.

[Chubminnow]

If employers voluntarily paid their employees a decent wage then unions would not be necessary and neither would illegals who have affected pay scales a great deal, Employers will pay an illegal half the wage to get a job done just because he can ...Most Americans don't wish to live 10 or 20 in a trailer or house the way these folks do, If a company owner or operator wants their work force to live that way then they are doing a great disservice to our way of life.

I gaurantee you that a nice sized percentage of the Mexicans you see ARE definitely illegal. And you're correct in that employers will pay a mexican half what a jobs really worth just because he can.

Now...let's throw this into the equation...how many young legal white boys (or black) do you see at an employers door looking to get hired for one of these jobs the mexicans do? Usually not very many. I don't know the pay scales of various construction jobs either....but I wonder what a "decent wage" per hour would be for a guy who hangs and finishes drywall? Lot of young folks out there don't have the attitude of work-work-work and then work some more, gain knowledge and skill and put in their due's so to speak...they want to walk before they crawl.

Oh well...these dag gone topics on government, unions, mexicans etc tend to make me rant....Hey Ironrobert or whatever your name is...don't go blasting me if I wrote something I have no knowledge of cause I never claimed I knew anything to begin with...it's just like everything else in my life...I've learned by doing and being involved. One of my moto's has been to not open my mouth much and let'm "think" I'm stupid instead of opening my mouth and letting'm "know" I'm stupid, lol...

[roughriderbill]

In my opion I think the worst thing is a teacher union and tender if a teacher is not up to teaching and doing it in a way that keeps the intrest of the sudents get them out. I went to parent teacher conf. and my sons teacher ask me what grade I wanted for her to give him, of course I told her give him what he earns not just give him an A or B to keep him on the football team thats what is worng. Be able to get the bad out and keep or bring in new more talented teachers, union or not be able to get the lazy ones out JMO.

[lroberts]

"Heck...every school board employee pays union dues to the teachers union don't they, whether they're a teacher or not, janitor's, kitchen workers, you name it...engineers at facility planning units are part of it too I believe. If teachers get raises then so do the folks at the main facility, it works the other way around to, no raise for teachers = no raise for the folks in engineering."

This is not true.....a teachers union is just that....for teachers. Administrators, school board members, and maintnance/engineers/utility workers are not included. Also, there is a strict rule on when you can retire with full benefits. Anytime you retire early you lose a big portion of it. A teacher can "buy out" some years of service in some corporations, but it is very costly and the corporation actually comes out ahead.....why you ask....because they go hire a person right out of college and can pay them the lowest salary on the scale. Teachers Unions actually have very little power, compared to private sector unions. Teachers (tenured or not) can be fired with just cause. Lack of performance, incompetence, or insubordination are all causes for dismissal....and it does happen.

Chubminnow.....I call it as I see it. You were saying things that led me to infer you thought you knew what you were talking about....and you were off base. Its not personal, I'll try to be more contructive in my criticism next time.

[kydonky]

I think it is more than a power grab. Even if the unions give up concessions, with the next contract they will have every OPPORTUNITY to SCREW the taxpayers. UNLESS the union is busted. Not about power....it is really about fairness. Be VALUABLE and you will be paid what you're worth. You said it a couple nights ago.....you provide a value for your company. When you or I no longer provide that value.......we're GONE. That is how it should be.

Later,

Geo

Or untill your company finds that it can obtain services in Mexico, India, Korea, at a better value...then your gone.

Or untill your company finds that they can imagrate a worker at a fraction of your salary...then your gone.

It's not just about profits anymore..it's about absolute maximum profits. This is the reason underwear is made in India now. Fruit of the loom was making profits in Kentucky, but when you move to Mexico, India and pay 3rd world wages you have maximum profits.

GE is one of the most profitable companies in the US today. When Frankfort has a GE plant they rejected union membership several times. When GE outsourced their appliance plants to Mexico, the nonunion plants were the ones to go (Frankfort GE plant closed).

Were these employees just bumbling dropouts without skills? No they were electricians, tool makers, ect. along with the assemblers and materials handlers. Many had to move far from family, friends to work, others took jobs where their skills were not even used.

So we have vacant houses that cannot sell, shuttered 60,000 sq ft home depot building.

"Greed is Good"? I think we may start to consider our neighbors on our street, in our churches and communities.

Just saying Geo....It does not have to be "all or nothing". Union busting may not be the answer you think it is. Room for improvements? Of course, always. But watch out a hosue can fall on anyone (wizard of Oz).

[Chubminnow]

Lack of performance, incompetence, or insubordination are all causes for dismissal....and it does happen.

It may happen...sometimes...usually with an act of congress to help make it happen though, at least from what I have seen anyway. Granted, I don't work for any school district so I'm not there all that often, but from what few times I do go on school property and see the things I see, there just needs to be some replacements made. So....I guess if these other workers don't belong to the teachers union it's hard to get rid of them because they work for the state/county?

The line between union and government seems awfully blurred to me and to much of either one is not a good thing.

[lroberts]

It may happen...sometimes...usually with an act of congress to help make it happen though, at least from what I have seen anyway. Granted, I don't work for any school district so I'm not there all that often, but from what few times I do go on school property and see the things I see, there just needs to be some replacements made. So....I guess if these other workers don't belong to the teachers union it's hard to get rid of them because they work for the state/county?

The line between union and government seems awfully blurred to me and to much of either one is not a good thing.

"So....I guess if these other workers don't belong to the teachers union it's hard to get rid of them because they work for the state/county?"



They are considered "at-will" employees and can be fired at any time for just cause.

[Chubminnow]

They are considered "at-will" employees and can be fired at any time for just cause.

Ok...if that's true somebody ought to be gettin' up off their can and do it then. It's probably easier said than done. Even in private industry it's hard to let people go, seen it to many times.

[kydonky]

Kentucky is an "at will employment state"

Private industry can fire anyone, anytime for any reason. (other than discrimination,issues .....black, white, jewish, girl, boy ect.)

Don't like pants..fired

Don't like haircut...fired

Can the employee collect unemployment benifits. Yes!

Can employer be sued. No!

If the employee looses his job through no fault of hisown he can get unemployment benifits. But thats it. (unless discrimination laws were broken)

[lroberts]

Ok...if that's true somebody ought to be gettin' up off their can and do it then. It's probably easier said than done. Even in private industry it's hard to let people go, seen it to many times.

Who are you talking about that should be fired????

[kydonky]

Kentucky is an "at will employment state"

Private industry can fire anyone, anytime for any reason. (other than discrimination,issues .....black, white, jewish, girl, boy ect.)

Don't like pants..fired

Don't like haircut...fired

Can the employee collect unemployment benifits. Yes!

Can employer be sued. No!

If the employee looses his job through no fault of hisown he can get unemployment benifits. But thats it. (unless discrimination laws were broken)

This can be changed with a contract. Union employment is contract labor. However, there are many types of contract labor that do not involve unions. Subcontracting is an example. Distributorships another. And many companies offer a contract with employment (outside of union representation). Break a contract and you can be sued.

[Tom523]

If it were Republicans fighting for something you thought was right would you feel differently???

Why don't you not show up for work in protest and then show us your paycheck at the end of the pay period!